[Grand Master Raziel]

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

I've been playing a shhoting army (Dark Angels) for a few months now and wanted to compile some of the information I've learned about playing with large numbers of long ranged weapons.

Build your squads properly. For Marines, this means no devestators.

I really couldn't disagree with you more on this score. While I agree with your later advice to use lots of Tac squads, the amount of firepower Devs can crank out more than justifies the additional cost for the heavy weapons in them, at least as far as heavy bolters and missile launchers are concerned.

Use Tacticals. Use even numbers, as theyre harder to score on. Use tactical squads over devestators, with a heavy weapon in each. I like to use a six man squad with a veteran segeant, a flamer, a heavy bolter, and 3 normal marines.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but the trouble with little squads is that most armies seem to have units that were designed with the specific intent to chew up such squads. The most obvious case in point is the Tyranid Lictor. When I played this way, I used to hate those things. These days, I'm fielding 10-man Tac squads lead by Veteran Sergeants with power fists. Lictors are only a minor nuisance to such squads. Bikes are another good unit to punish little squads with, as they can get to them fast.

These seem to be effective, epseacially since oinly one of my six normal opponents (Chaos) ever gets an armour save against the HB. This set up is also nice for Cities of Death. Taken many of these little squads. They maximize the number of heavy weapons, and they allow you to take off normal marines with bolters for casualties. If an enemy gets too close for comfort, move forward and rapid fire/flame away. If theres anything left, brace for close combat.

I've been doing the close-range firefight a lot lately, and I have to tell you that against most armies, you have to lay down a lot more than 8 bolter shots to get a good effect.

Second, deployment is key.

So true!

Place your men in ranks like this

s s s s s s



M M M M M M



M M M M M M



M M M M M M

What I've done is placed a unit of scouts in my front rank, since they're cheaper, to as as a "meat sheild". If you get rushed my an elite close combat unit (like infiltrating and scouting genestealers) turn one, they soak up your casualties. If you can afford the space, leave 7 inches between ranks, and space them just close enough to maintain consistancy. That way if the units in the front rank get masacred then your entire game isnt over. You move in, rapid fire, and the genestealers or whatever die. Place the weapons with the longest range in the rear for obvious reasons. Remember youre working against the clock and you want to maximize your shots since you'll probably be out-done in close combat if you focus on shooting. So fire away! shoot relentlessly until they reach you.

The trouble with this deployment is that, with 7 inch gaps between each line and 1 inch bases, you're talking about a formation with a depth of 25", which is more than halfway across a standard table, and that's assuming that your rear line is lined up right on your own table edge. Sounds nice on paper, but units on foot will take a long time getting there, and that's assuming that terrain isn't an issue and that your opponent obligingly lets you set up your super-formation.

The concept of staggered lines is a good one, but I think you're approaching it the wrong way. I would go with something more like this:

T T T T T T

D D D D D D

A A A A A A

The first line is a Tactical squad, the second is a Devestator Squad (but you could use anything), and the third line is an assault unit of your choice. The only real spacing restrictions are that you want the assault unit to be able to move and counterassault a unit attacking the front rank, and that there be more than 6" between the second and third rank. An assaulty opponent will hit the front line. If he's lucky, he might punch through the front rank and consolidate into your second rank, but then you counterassault and (hopefully) send him packing.

My third piece of advice is to keep some good close combat units nearby with power weapons ect. They'll help you out if you get rushed and have to engage in close combat. I like to use an HQ and comand squad for this role. Keep them near the rest of your army and counter attack your enemy when the moment is right.

That's good advice. Players of shooty armies have a tendency to neglect contingencies for getting wrapped up in assault. That's a big mistake. Players of assaulty armies tend to be good at getting their units into assault, so you have to have a plan for dealing with this eventuality, otherwise the game is effectively over once your opponent gets a single unit in your lines. Command Squads are good for counterassault purposes, but don't neglect other choices. An Assault Squad led by a Chaplain is also a good choice, especially as it's superior mobility lets it get where you need it more reliably. Scouts aren't a bad choice, either. They have the same punch as an Assault Squad and are considerably cheaper. If you want to have something real hard-core, use an Assault Terminator Squad with L-claws and Furious Charge led by an attached Chaplain. Throw in a couple of T-hammers for dealing with Monstrous Creatures, and you'll have a unit that will make almost anything melt off the table.

Nowthats what I've found works for me. what works for you? lets start some discussion and hopefully we'll be able to improve each others gaming abilities!

Well, what I've found is that there are three aspects to successfully playing a shooty army: deployment, target prioritization, and crisis management. Deployment is fairly obvious: you want to deploy in such a way so as to maximize the area of table you can bring under your guns. Crisis management, we already talked about above, so what I really want to address is Target Prioritization.

Target Prioritization is the most important skill for successfully playing a shooty army. You need to be able to tell what you have to put steel on right away and what you can afford to ignore for a few turns. This may vary, depending on what army you're playing against. If you're up against another shooty opponent, then what you want to eliminate first are his biggest sticks: ordnance tanks being your top priority targets (unless you get an armor save against the ordnance in question), and heavy weapon squads being the next highest priority after that. After that, it's a matter of bringing down whatever's left that you consider dangerous.

If you're playing against an assaulty army, then you want to concentrate on bringing down the fast units first. Fast units often aren't the most hardcore assault elements, but are intented to tie up your lines long enough for the heavy hitters to reach your lines. Therefore, the fast stuff has to go first. You mop that stuff up, and you'll usually have time to deal with the slower, harder units.

Sometimes, what style of army your opponent is playing isn't readily apparent just by looking at it on the table. If you can't tell what an opponent might be trying to do, then as a rule of thumb shoot at loaded transports first. Whatever is in them is bad news. You can always bring down gun-toting vehicles after you deal with the transports. Ignore empty transports unless your opponent is doing something clever with them. Immobilized transports are as good as destroyed for your purposes - they can't get your opponent's stuff to you quicker anymore, so ignore them. Finally, remember that a Shaken/Stunned gun tank isn't a threat to you next turn, so if you get one of these results, move on to another target, unless there's nothing else to shoot.

Try to keep in mind how much return you're likely to get for a given effort. In one game I played against an Eldar opponent, I spent four turns trying (unsuccessfully) to bring down his damn Falcons. It then dawned on me that his Vypers were doing almost as much damage and would be way easier to bring down. If I'd done that on turn 2, I might have won that game.

If you want to get good at target prioritization, one of the best things you can do is read the other guys' codices. Knowing what the other armies in the game can do is critical to beating them, no matter what style of army you play.