[Dravenguild]

First off, this is not a flaming thread, nor is it a defending a particular version of the chaos codex.

Simply, the new codex has been a wonderful improvement on the infallible armies of previous chaos with its oversimplified layout and easy to understand and legible font.

Where it needs improvement-

I'm not entirely familiar with fluff, but aren't Chaos space marines of the original 9 traitor legions veterans and long lived?

Point- though the new codex focuses on "generic" and adaptable marines that can go against great odds and pull through, wouldn't the Chaos marine entry be able to at least choose one veteran ability? Or are all chaos space marines generic greenhorns that have witnessed no battles and still wet behind the ears? Newfish some might say?

If this codex sticks to fluff, the nine traitor legions and most of the renegade/corsairs should be able to master numerous battlefield techniques.

Isn't chaos good at running circles around loyalists? True even to now, though they should have retained the ability to charge ferociously, use special penetrator rounds against bunkers?

people will argue that vet abilities are reserved for chosen and god-aligned marines. This is a valid point as not to make CSM more broken, and i totally agree with that.

But my point, my opinion i should say, remains that chaos space marines are veterans of 10.000 Frickin years of combat!!! Does that mean anything at all?

So what if they have those silly nerfed marks of chaos, that doesn't make up for the loss of a great strategic abilities that can turn the tide of battle. Some will say it is a crutch that breaks the game, i beg to differ.

This recent shift towards renegades rather than full chaos legions is absolutely irresponsible.

Another point- In the codex it states that chaos marines are selfish and egomaniacal.

knitty- If Chaos marines are worried about self preservation and fulfilling their own selfish goals, why wouldn't a chaos lord surround himself with devoted followers that can take bullets for him?

(Mainly I point out that [i]all[i] Chaos marine HQ units are independent)

Also-

Chaos lords have obviously survived long enough to make themselves distinguishable from the rest of the fodder, so why is it that they cannot become true followers of their patron gods?

Example and point- Marks of chaos for lords is no different than the underlings that serve them. A lord that worships khorne gets +1 attack, while a khorne berzerker, a TROOP choice I might add gets furious charge.

Though not a big deal, why can't the lord they serve be able to use blight grenades and have feel no pain? Is typhus the only nurgle lord who is truly blessed by nurgle?

Or why a lord of slaanesh cannot wield sonic weaponry?

Even being able to use inferno bolts for tzeentch?

Being so old and worshipping a power one would have to think that chaos lords could learn to make blight grenades or pick up some slaaneshi tech.

Daemons i'm not worried about, since the new daemons codex is coming out.

My last statement is the zero involvement of customization for aspiring champions, raptors cannot wield combi-weapons, slaanesh champions (Noise marine champions) cannot wield a variety of weapons, etc...

Not to mention a daemon prince cannot even wield a daemon weapon...

Possessed suck, if i wanted to roll on a table I would've picked looted ork vehicles, which is exactly what possessed are, crap.

THE OLD CODEX

-made chaos into an unbeatable powerhouse.

-broken strategies (Daemonbomb, iron warriors cheese list, lash of torment)

-too many veteran skill options (I didn't say they were bad, but you could have a crapload, now i think one would suffice)

-Greater and lesser daemons were way overpowered

-Daemonic gifts were all too numerous.

-black legion did not function the right way.

Good things-

- Raptors were expensive but worth the points cost (Besides, who would want to buy more than one squad? a 10 man runs $90 plus tax)

- lots of useful vehicle upgrades.

- Marks made you into the preferred legion, though people will debate that it was worse for every rubric marine to be a thousand son. But on the other hand, what other legions cast the rubric of Ahriman up until this newest codex?

As far as i'm concerned, those four legions were the source of pure god marines until knock offs were put into the new codex.

- Lots of generic and god-specific daemon weapons.

- Legions! actual chaos legions and not just wierdo warbands!

(Though Iron warriors and night lords, meh they needed the nerf)


- unless you played a pure god army, you could have a max of 3 god-specific marine squads unless the lord had the same mark.

(Now if you wanted you could run 120 khorne berzerkers in a legal army, or 120 plague marines, etc...)


All in all, the two codexes should have been spliced with the best of both worlds.

Noth have their faults, and both have their strengths.