Imperial Warfund

[Steellegioncpt]

In the ancient times of man, dating far back to the year 2006 a great nations' war against evil waged. However the peoples of this nation was tired of paying for this war since the fund rose to as high as a trillion dollars.

Pish THATS NOTHING Guess how much the Imperium has spent!
Leman russ-2.3 million
1x Space Marine- 1.0 million
Kicking our enemies' asses- PRICELESS!

[MSguardsmen]

often times humanity doesnt understand the price of war.


god pity the virgins of war (and by virgins of war i mean people who have never experienced it not something experiment 626 might have thought of )




also are we not supposed to keep politics off of this forum?

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

That had nothing to do with politics, ergo, it is perfectly legal.

[Dan296]

a space marine is only a million?

space marine implants-1 million
power armour-12 million
weapons-.5 million
training-200,000
having 1000 of these bad boys to take care of anything you point at- priceless.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

id say marines are a lot more than 1 million too

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by MSguardsmen

often times humanity doesnt understand the price of war.


god pity the virgins of war (and by virgins of war i mean people who have never experienced it not something experiment 626 might have thought of )

hmmmm... i seem to have recently become quite infamous?!! (wether or not this a good thing, only time will tell... )

i think a marine would be more like 100 million $$$'s. considering all the bio implants and then the high tech armour & weapons!

still, i'd like to see the look on the bad guy's face when he's comfronted by an eight-foot tall armoured giant who can spit acid and crush a skull with one hand!!!

cheers!

[MSguardsmen]

however remember in 40k growing organs and likewise stuff is considered old tech to the doctors of this time. weapons and armour is made by the 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000 on forge worlds 24/7 or whatever their time schedule is.


most of these things have to be cheaped as they are made in ungodly mass quanities.

[Stubber]

Do you really think stuff is bought for the Imperial armed forces?

I'd say it's more like 'Here's the materials, make this ,that, 10 of them, 12365 of those, a couple hundred these. You will have the Emperors gratitude.

If you choose not to make the things you will recieve a bolt round to the face'

[MSguardsmen]

actually yeah the imperium does pay for the weapons and armour they use. do believe otherwise is simply foolish. no merchant would every give up his resources for free. if they did just give it away they could never make any money. its simply economics

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

free is a realtive term - the imperium may not give him money, but it does give him freedom of trade, shelter, protection etc.

[Stubber]

And the freedom of not getting a bolt round to the face for interfering with the affairs of the Imperial military by not making their stuff and thereby retarding their combat potential.

Some of the Imperial practices are actually very environmentally friendly.
Armour and stuff can be thousands of years old.

Recycling enthusiasts could learn a few things.

[Steellegioncpt]

Thats true, I just cant imagine an imperial chimera tank manufacture (for example) saying NO to the imperium because of lack of funds.

then again....

in the year 40000 there is no money! They work on a point system. Its not 24332 million for a space marine, but rather 15 points.... duh.... hahha

[MSguardsmen]

let us remember that even Rouge Trader Tobias gave Inquisitor Eisenhorn a ride for a fee.


but then i guess the tithes that planets give counts as a payment and then the imperium gives it to someother planet that makes it or something

Let us remember also, one bolt round to the face is worth many, many thousands if not millions of currency, and the Space Marines not getting
sicked on you is worth your forgeworlds entire yearly production. Hence the current economy of the Imperium! 'Gimme what I want or the Astartes maul you!'

[Stubber]

Let us not forget that munitions of all types are produced in their Billions on Forge worlds and that the Imperium would go bankrupt in a week if every time a bolt pistol was fired they lost thounsands of currency.

Have you not seen the rate of fire of the Heavybolter turrets on DOW.

ADD-ON
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Originally Posted by MSguardsmen

let us remember that even Rouge Trader Tobias gave Inquisitor Eisenhorn a ride for a fee.

Eisenhorn could have demanded a free ship ride but that would have caused Maxilla to leave at the first possible moment. Where would Eisenhorn be later on if he didn't have the Essene to ride around in.

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

Ever studied medieval Europe?

Know what their economy was like then, in the "Dark Ages"?

The remains of the Holy Roman Empire were held together by the Church... Annual tithe was (still is) 20% of your income.

Now obviously, farmers didn't make 100 gold coins a year. Heck, most didn't even make gold... Most peasants earned silver and copper, while gold was reserved for governmental actions.

So, how did a farmer pay his tithes?

Well, a good portion of it was in produce.

A farmer might give 1/5th of his produce to a local monastery or convent prior to selling anything else he didn't need to feed his family. A cattle herder who owns five cattle, might kill one cow a year, offer the best meat to the church, and sell the rest on the open market.

A blacksmith might shoe the bishop's horses, or armor a royal knight or paladin. Or might craft a fine blade for a king, as royalty in much of europe was equivocal to religious authority.

So, tithe was often paid out in goods or services not just in money.

The 40k univers isn't much further off... Forgeworlds will often produce a set number of ships, armor, weapons and munitions to be put forth as a tithing to the Emperor. Not as a tax, but as a religious obligation. That way, the Imperium doesn't have to deal with "rising costs" to get its fair share of guns.

A farmworld might give up half its crops to the Imperial Navy/Army, and a hive world might send a small percentage each year, of its populace to fight in the Imperial Guard/Navy.

However, the other side to the coin is that governors pay huge taxes of Imperial Credits as annual tithes, and those tithes go to help the Imperium pay for even more forgeworld supplies, farmworld crops and better training for their soldiers.

The long and short is that the Imperium doesn't operate just on money, and I honestly don't think space marines have to pay anything. They operate outside the normal Imperial infrastructure and don't really make use of credits. They just come and say "We need x ammount of bolter shells, x ammount of food. We defend your world so ante up or we'll invade"

Originally Posted by Draconis Argentus Falzone

Ever studied medieval Europe?

Know what their economy was like then, in the "Dark Ages"?

The remains of the Holy Roman Empire were held together by the Church... Annual tithe was (still is) 20% of your income.

Now obviously, farmers didn't make 100 gold coins a year. Heck, most didn't even make gold... Most peasants earned silver and copper, while gold was reserved for governmental actions.

So, how did a farmer pay his tithes?

Well, a good portion of it was in produce.

A farmer might give 1/5th of his produce to a local monastery or convent prior to selling anything else he didn't need to feed his family. A cattle herder who owns five cattle, might kill one cow a year, offer the best meat to the church, and sell the rest on the open market.

A blacksmith might shoe the bishop's horses, or armor a royal knight or paladin. Or might craft a fine blade for a king, as royalty in much of europe was equivocal to religious authority.

So, tithe was often paid out in goods or services not just in money.

The 40k univers isn't much further off... Forgeworlds will often produce a set number of ships, armor, weapons and munitions to be put forth as a tithing to the Emperor. Not as a tax, but as a religious obligation. That way, the Imperium doesn't have to deal with "rising costs" to get its fair share of guns.

A farmworld might give up half its crops to the Imperial Navy/Army, and a hive world might send a small percentage each year, of its populace to fight in the Imperial Guard/Navy.

However, the other side to the coin is that governors pay huge taxes of Imperial Credits as annual tithes, and those tithes go to help the Imperium pay for even more forgeworld supplies, farmworld crops and better training for their soldiers.

The long and short is that the Imperium doesn't operate just on money, and I honestly don't think space marines have to pay anything. They operate outside the normal Imperial infrastructure and don't really make use of credits. They just come and say "We need x ammount of bolter shells, x ammount of food. We defend your world so ante up or we'll invade"

A man of history and fluff I see! Summed up the situation perfectly.. However... How does one explain where all the credits to support the indent workers of the hives come from? Even the lowliest hive worker carcked out on amasec and obscura gets a cred bar for his services... Where does this come, and how is it obtained/given?

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

Are you asking where the "boss" of the indentured servants gets the money to pay the servants for their work? 'cause the answer to that is business. My slaves harvest, you buy off me. I pay my slaves enough that they can get by, but not enough to escape.

Or are you asking how the Imperium makes money?

For that, I turn to the USA's very own DoT. The Department of the Treasury.

US sells a bond, takes anywhere between $100 and 100,000 off someone's hands.

US buys it back, puts money back into the economy.

US raises the interest rates on bank loans and raises taxes/tariffs, and reduces how much free-floating money is out there. US lowers taxes, tarrifs and interest rate to put more money in the hands of the people.

Or were you asking something else?

You answered the question from all angles Draconis. I had always thought it would be, but the detail nut within me was always frustrated with no real answer... Does the Imperium run off space-age wampum? lol

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

Glad to be of service.

[Cagarner]

I think space marines dont just say; Give me what I want or we will cleanse your planet! They take advantage of ancient treities, in which the space marines take reasources and people, and then protect the world. With larger Sm chapters, like the Ultramarines, they have empires that they can gain all their resources internally, or via the local forgeworld.

[Ides]

I'd have to agree. Supplying the imperium with resources isn't just a monetary thing, it's to ensure that they remain under the protection of the imperial guard and nearby Space marine chapters, as well as keeping under the radar of those less...understanding...factions of the adeptus terra. For special projects or larger demands of men and materials, I'd assume something a little more valuable and lasting than money would be required.

[Flaxxon]

Don't forget that every battle barge is also a functioning muntions and machine producing facility. Must marine force have a small army of servants/servitors marines that washed out in training. They must likely do the majority of all the needed grunt work. For must its an honor to serve the chapter or they are just labotomized and only follow basic programing/instructions. They must likely get there resources from there varied planets that they recruit from as sacrafices to the "Angels of Death".

Must major Forge worlds are operated by the Adeptus mechanius since they are the only ones who know the "rights" to make just about everything. I imagine the contract fees generated by hiring the only trained professionals to make, designs and or fix your equipment would be pretty high. Not something you can really go and outsource. Since they will just call you a heretic then you get to deal with the Inquistion.

[Ides]

True, but in a galaxy where your survival is dependant on those armies functioning properly, you are hardly going to withhold your services besause they can't pay you in money. Chances are they would call in favours or protection from planetary armies, or Space marine chapters in return for their services. I don't believe that the imperium has had the time to put together more than a basic set of laws and acceptable currency outside of the typical tithes, imperial guard levies, and oaths of allegiance. Once a planet meets certain criteria it more or less rules itself from my understanding of it. And chances of being able to bribe the imperium's enemies away with currency seem quite slim.

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

Right. I didn't mean that space marines just come along and requisition everything. I meant that they come up and say "Hey. We defended your world from Hive Fleet Bugger last century, and we haven't gotten anything from your forges... Mind making us a battle barge to replace the one we lost defending you guys?"

[Ides]

Right. Or something like, "we agree to provide you with a portion of materials X,Y and Z in return for your continued protection." Along with some high toned talk about recruiting and praising the emperor.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

wow nice thread. (currency = civilian use only.)
even so...
...it does take thousands of Adeptus Mechanicus / Administratum or whatever to calculate the tithes every year. I'm sure they have a huge network of (A owes B, B owes C, C owes A but not as much as A owes C, and then there's Z that owes everyone