red thirst vs wulfen

[qwertyblarg]

after reading the rereleased blood angedls series (absolutely amazing i recommend reading it completely.) i began to notice how similar the red thirst and the curse ofthe wulfen are. i re read the first couple of chapters replacing the words red thirst and blood angels with wulfen and space wolves etc and it actually made perfect sense. as well as that there are some striking similarities such as the spear of russ/telesto which responds to genecode (not unusual) and how each marine of both chapters struggles with the thirst/wulfen within them. do you think this was purposeful or accidental because both armies are combat orientated (or able to be combaty armies) with both having powerful combat units and assault units as standard (cant speak for blood angels assault troops) with the exception that the blood angels are more tactical what is the difference really because the units are practically identical eg death company + wulfen both gave in to their chapters curse, long fangs+devastators tactical marines and grey hunters and the characters are not really related but thy re both marines so what the hell.
is there enough of a difference to make blood angels a different chapter instead of using traits? i know they are first founding but lots of other fitrst founding legions get traits and ultramarines get honour guard so maybe BA get death company as a special unit in the new codex.....as well as the specialist wargear. i have rambled a little haven't i? oh well.....

[Petey1016]

There are striking similarities but the Wulfen curse has probably been around before the heresy as well, though not manifesting itself too often. The Red Thirst and Black rage are the responsibility of Sanguinius getting psychically obliterated by Horus and lies within the geneseed only after the heresy with which it becomes apparent that the Blood Angels geneseed is unstable much like they found out with the Space Wolves Geneseed.

The Spear Of Russ and the Spear of Telesto have remarkable similarites but then so does the Soulspear and a lot of other Primarch's weapons and weapons forged before, during and a bit after the heresy. Im not sure if this is indeed the fact with the Blade Encarmine but im am liely to believe it is, genecoders are genius as it means not all random joes can utilise it to its fullest power.

Both armies can be stupidly harsh when assaulting as BA players can field 6 assault squads, 3 Veteran assault squads and 2 Honour guard with Jump Packs (with 2 HQ's that is) making up a maximum total of 102 marines with Jump packs incl captains and with 30 of them accessing juicier wargear. Space wolves can mass a really stupid amount of Blood Claws and achieve the same affect but without as much manouvrebility. However Both armies can play the shooting role as well so are tactically sound at everything you can think of.

Also is there any differences in the omnibus to the two seperate books (Deus Encarmine and Deus Sanguinius) if there is and anyone knows i would love to know what as often with Omnibus books they add in a paragraph or two here and there, nothing major but it makes it more descriptive.

The Blood Angels are portrayed as noble yet humble whereas the Space Wolves are portrayed as ruthless killers with the instincts of an animal, IMO.
Overall they are VERY similar but then look at similarities between Other Chapters and you will see there are many like this.

-Petey, Captain of the Angels Encarmine 2nd Company

[Capitano]

indeed it is even possible to compare loyalist first founding chapters with the fallen legions

Dorn and the Fist

against

that other guy something about Iron Warriors...haha

White Scars fast attack

Night Bringers Legion's fast attack

it does not end there but that is just pointing out that they just copied and paste like a High School End of Term paper and changed a few words

Not complaining I like it myself...the whole yin and yang thing

[qwertyblarg]

Originally Posted by Petey1016

The Blood Angels are portrayed as noble yet humble whereas the Space Wolves are portrayed as ruthless killers with the instincts of an animal, IMO

oh yeah thanks petey.....
we aren't ruthless killers we are the ones that actually defend the people of the imperium. we're still pissed off at the inqusition and possibly the ecclesiarchu for having a hand in it after they slaughtered all the citizens of armageddon after the second war for it with angron. SW are slightly animalistic and are relentless in there pursuit for an imperial ruled universe but we aren't ruthless. we are fearsome, confident, amiable and still the most human of the chapters in regard to emotions towards other humans whereas the blood angels are aloof towards other humans. in other words, blood angels whilst being awesome IMO are aloof, superior marines whereas we are bearded ginger vikings in space. (who as i proved to don are ninjas. where would ninjas be? where you least expect them. where would you least expect them? In the chapter of space vikings who tend to use brute force over stealth with the exception of a few..... Therefore they are the ninjas of 40k!

[BrotherValliant]

It would actually be the "black rage vs wulfen" because the red thrist is actually the after affect where DUE TO the black rage driving its incumbent insane it drives the marine to the habit of drinking his fallen enemies blood. It does attribute itself to the black rage but is mearly the after-shock, if you will, of the black rage.

Seeing as how the similarities have been put up ill do the differences.

1) Wulfen transformation usually leads to the execution/banishment of the would-be Space wolf. Black Rage , if hes not driven insane, leads to the marine being put into a death company where he fights till he dies period.

2) Im not sure if the wulfen bestows any physical attributes besides animal savageness (i loved all 6 of the SW novels dont take anything i say about them as an insult) but the marines under the black rage who have it under control or have mastered it are granted with semi-primarch like enhancements to every aspect of their bodies that simply makes them even more deadly.

3) Wulfen that are used in combat are part of the legendary 13th company of the SW, death companies are common amongst BA companies.

IF i can think of anything else ill post it but anyone who wants to feel free to dissect my post. For Sanguinius, For Russ, For the Emperor!

[Capitano]

and there we have it in all its point blank end of story

[Petey1016]

The Death company only die in battle if they are near a battle if they aren't a procedure is used where there locked up and the sanguinary priests listen to them. Its in the downloadable Index Astartes article.

Blood Angels aren't aloof and superior we show our strength while still being humble in attitude compared to before the heresy. Its true that in the Novels done by "Mr Useless" it seems that way but we save the imperial population by fighting battle away from them to save them from witnessing a marine losing his insanity in an orgy of bloodletting. Space Wolves do treat the population better but not by much as marines are marines and almost all act the same way to non astartes.

Also you can't be ninja's as you don't wear black, we have Insano Ninja Party animals though

[Capitano]

actually the SW chapter is held aloof like the BA chapter but they allow more regular humans to work with them then the BA chapter...the sefts on their ships and the such...

[qwertyblarg]

yeah we have "bondsmen" rather than serfs. ours have the choice. yeah. :P. anyway how was i meant to know the difference between black rage and red thirst? (don't scroll up and read the part where i say i ve just finished the BA omnibus please XD) therea re a fair few physical changes that come with the gift of the wulfen. theres the obvious like claws, snouts, extreme beard growth across ENTIRE face. theres also yelow eyes bones in the face distending and increased rate of fang growth.
and we arent aloof we're......trying to think of a word that means aloof but doesnt sound like it does.......
we're spesh. thats my point. we're spesh. i give up
ps why is it every post we have that's shared we end up arguing? or with my face getting eaten by a dextrous wombat?

[Petey1016]

Bah so you have more mutations you dirty mutant

Death Co. just get super strength, super toughness and super ANGRY! oh and the fangs that all BA's adapt after a long time serving the Chapter.

This isnt an argument its a heated debate between 2 people

[qwertyblarg]

sorry wasnt here petey....
we don't have more mutations. you said it yourself last saturday the seraph wings are a very cmmon mutation among the blood angels. besides that our mutations are controlled and you also have fangs just less prominent than ours.our only mutation that sets us apart physically is out fangs and our abnormal hair growth that occurs as the SW gets older. and the fact that we all have beards unless you are a blood claw.
wulfen or those with the curse of the wulfen are feral angry not just grrr i want to bite you angry like the death company (that never made sense to me. those with the red thirst, the blood drinkers, wear helmets, stopping them from drinking blood. mad.) wulfen are lightning fast, fuelled with adrenal, combat hormones, have fangs and diamond hard claws. we all have fangs and rend flesh and you would too if you weren't so strictly bound by the codex astartes. probably. guess work there.

it is a heated debate but then most of the threads we' re in together end up as a debate of outright pointlessnessnessness.