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08-14-2007
| #1 (permalink) |
| Confused and Enraged       Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South-east Ireland
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|  Eldar & Space Marines Vs. Eldar Pathfinder Laeresh silently climbed the steep incline; the only noise was the snow gently crunching beneath her gentle footsteps and the whistle of the breeze in her ears, her cameleoline cloak a pale white, blending perfectly with the frozen ground around her in the dim moonlight, she was but a ghost, unseen, unheard, unnoticed… …to all but one. Farseer Lilith stood tall and proud, like a statue of some great, forgotten hero, overlooking the glistening valley, soon it would glisten a crimson hue, of this Lilith had no doubt. “Our distant brethren are still in the Mon’Keih settlement”. It was not a question but Laeresh, silently reaching the summit, answered nonetheless. “They have slaughtered the Mon’Keih, the shadow of death hangs over that place” “Before the next moonrise Death’s shadow will blacken this whole land, our innocent maiden land, but innocence lost is a small price for the persistence of Nacretinei”. Laeresh spoke again, “Farseer, I must inform you that more Mon’Keih approach from the south…” “Ah yes, the elite warriors of the corpse god, Laeresh, what I instruct you to now will fall heavy on our souls but it is a suffering we must endure for our survival. The outcasts in that settlement are our brethren no more; their crimes not yet committed shall herald the death of Nacretinei, their seers are blind to the forces they shall unleash upon the Eldar, to stop this they must die…” “Farseer?...” “Laeresh, the Mon’Keih are our allies for this battle, weather they want us our not, if faith is kind we may be able to claim our Maiden world some other time, but for now this battle is our only concern.” Lilith fell silent again, a silent spectre of faith, pulling the strings of helpless puppets. Laeresh turned and silently began the slow march down the frozen, silver slope. Mission: Recon (get scoring units into the enemy deployment zone) Deployment zones extend 15” from each long table edge and each player can set up units anywhere within their zones. Special Rules: Deep Strike, Infiltrate, Victory Points, Dusk & Dawn (night fight in first turn), Random Game Length Game Length: Voting ends Tuesday 4th September Battlefield Details: 10’ x 8’ gently undulating snow field. 12 ruined buildings in the centre, making a settlement roughly 4’ x 3’ in area. 8 areas of woodland roughly 6” x 6” scattered around the field outside of the settlement. Armies: Dan296…Eldar 4000pts (2Foc) Vs. BrainDeleted…Eldar 2000pts SteveBerenyi…Space Marines 2000pts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BrainDeleted Nacretinei Craftworld Eldar HQ:140 Farseer=140 points Spirit Stones Mind War Doom Eldrich Storm Elites:197 Striking Scorpions=197 points Shadow Strike 10 Scorpions Exarch with Chainsabres Troops:720 Rangers=120 points 5 Pathfinders Rangers=120 points 5 Pathfinders Dire Avengers=152 points Bladestorm 10 Avengers Exarch with Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults Storm Guardians=164 points 14 Storm Guardians 2 Flamers Warlock with Enhance Storm Guardians=164 points 14 Storm Guardians 2 Flamers Warlock with Enhance Fast Attack:427 Warp Spiders=247 points Surprise Assault 10 Warp Spiders Exarch with Two Death Spinners Viper Squadron=180 points 3 Vipers with a Scatter Laser Heavy Support:515 Support Weapon Battery=150 points 3 Vibro Cannons War Walker Squadron=180 points 3 War Walkers with Two Scatter Lasers Falcon=185 points Eldar Missile Launcher Star Engines Holo-Fields Total: 1999pts SteveBerenyi Space Marines HQ 1 Chapter Captain - Terminator Armour - Pair of Lightning Claws - Bionics Command Squad - 2 Assault Cannon Terminators - 3 Terminators - Sergeant Terminator (Storm Bolter, Purity Seals) -402 Elite Terminator Squad - Sergeant Terminator - 2 Assault Cannon Terminators - 4 Terminators -320 Troops Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron -2 Land Speeder Tornados (Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon) -1 Land Speeder Tornado (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) -235 Heavy Support 1 Vindicator (Dozer Blade, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers) -138 Devastator Squad - Sergeant (Storm Bolter, Terminator Honours, Auspex) - 3 Missile Marines - Heavy Plasma Marine - 5 Marines -267 Total: 2000pts ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dan296 Eldar HQ Autarch w/laser lance, mandiblasters, jetbike -130 Avatar of khaine -155 Farseer-spirit stones, doom, guide -120 ELITES 10 howling banshees -160 10 howling banshees -160 10 fire dragons -160 wave serpent w/ twin linked shuriken cannons -100 TROOPS 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 12 jetbikes, 4 w/ shuriken cannons -304 FAST ATTACK 5 shining spears, exarch w/ withdraw -212 5 shining spears, exarch w/ withdraw -212 3 Vypers w/ starcannons -210 3 Vypers w/ bright lances -225 3 Vypers w/ scatter lasers -180 3 Vypers w/ scatter lasers -180 HEAVY SUPPORT Fire prism -115 Fire prism -115 Fire prism -115 2 War walkers w/ twin linked shuriken cannons -80 Total: 4001pts Remember you can decide who wins...just place a vote. Add a link to this game on your Signature so we can get more votes.
__________________ Don't complain about that which you can change. Change it yourself or it won't change at all... As for that which is unchangeable. Stop complaining, you're annoying me...  Vote On The Battlefield |
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08-14-2007
| #2 (permalink) |
| Captain  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland
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Blog Entries: 1  | well for a little explaining  BrainDeleted Nacretinei Craftworld Eldar HQ:140 Farseer=140 points Spirit Stones Mind War Doom Eldrich Storm Eldrich storm should produce some whacky and good results against this vehicle heavy list because it can spin and move vehicles to tie up dan's advance Elites:197 Striking Scorpions=197 points Shadow Strike 10 Scorpions Exarch with Chainsabres Infiltrate. Tear apart any unit that messes with them in CC Troops:720 Rangers=120 points 5 Pathfinders Rangers=120 points 5 Pathfinders use their snipers to pin and mess up dan's advance and with AP1 on a 5+ they can easily destroy vipers and they are capable of taking down a wave serpant or two. With infiltrate and scouts they can get very close too dan's deployment zone and take cover (they have +2 stealth) the shinning spears and banshees are prime targets for these guys so that they are pinned and not a threat + the small squads of spears loss their scoring unit status quickly and if my scorpions get the charge banshees are doomed! Dire Avengers=152 points Bladestorm 10 Avengers Exarch with Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults Firing in support of the Storm guardians you know avengers and you love them Storm Guardians=164 points 14 Storm Guardians 2 Flamers Warlock with Enhance Storm Guardians=164 points 14 Storm Guardians 2 Flamers Warlock with Enhance slogging it across the field...numbers should get them though and they can easily take dire avengers in CC with 2A I5 WS4 Fast Attack:427 Warp Spiders=247 points Surprise Assault 10 Warp Spiders Exarch with Two Death Spinners they get 2 jump pack moves a turn and can deepstrike to hit his vunerable back with their S6 weapons Viper Squadron=180 points 3 Vipers with a Scatter Laser Heavy Support:515 Support Weapon Battery=150 points 3 Vibro Cannons To understand this weapons usefulness you need to understand how it fires: role to hit as normal, Draw a 36" line from a gun that hits anything under this line automatically takes D6 S6 pinning hits that automatically glance vehicles. Since it auto glances vehicles it'll REALLY hurt dan's vehicle heavy army and it can hit several vehicles a turn...the sheer bulk of hits will ensure that a few vehicles are maimed a turn and pinning to slow down his spears and disembarked troops  War Walker Squadron=180 points 3 War Walkers with Two Scatter Lasers 24 36" S6 shots will decimate the lightly armored vipers or flatten a squad of Shinning Spears + They get a scout move to get closer to the enemy Falcon=185 points Eldar Missile Launcher Star Engines Holo-Fields Kill wave serpeants and pick up a pathfinder squad if they are in trouble. Total: 1999pts Basically my list is designed to mess up dan's advance into our deployment zone and sneak a few units into his. His vehicles have no chance against some of the nasties I brought to this fight.  
__________________ "The heart that quavers in the breast be damned! We'll stand our ground right here upon the field; And we'll provide the carnage and the slaughter -Roland Vote on the Battlefield <---Pssst! Thats a link |
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08-14-2007
| #3 (permalink) |
| Confused and Enraged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South-east Ireland
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| Does Steve or Dan have any tactics they wish to add to the game...
__________________ Don't complain about that which you can change. Change it yourself or it won't change at all... As for that which is unchangeable. Stop complaining, you're annoying me... Vote On The Battlefield |
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08-14-2007
| #4 (permalink) |
| Just A Regular Joe. Again   Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Butte, Montana
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Blog Entries: 5  | SteveBerenyi Space Marines HQ 1 Chapter Captain - Terminator Armour - Pair of Lightning Claws - Bionics Command Squad - 2 Assault Cannon Terminators - 3 Terminators - Sergeant Terminator (Storm Bolter, Purity Seals) -402 These DS'ers will deploy in their zone, giving lots of pts for being in their zone... plus have the survivability to last after the DS. Elite Terminator Squad - Sergeant Terminator - 2 Assault Cannon Terminators - 4 Terminators -320 These DS'ers will deploy in their zone, giving lots of pts for being in their zone... plus have the survivability to last after the DS. Troops Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 Scout Squad - 5 Scout Snipers - 3 Scout Bolters - Scout Sergeant (Bolter) - Scout Heavy Bolter -160 oh my god look at all those infiltrators with a lot (20) sniper rifles to keep dan pinned in his own territory, they serve 2 purposes Fast Attack Land Speeder Squadron -2 Land Speeder Tornados (Heavy Bolter, Assault Cannon) -1 Land Speeder Tornado (Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer) -235 mainly well... fast attack. they can bring down lots of troops as well as wave serpents/fire prisms Heavy Support 1 Vindicator (Dozer Blade, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers) -138 TANK KILLER Devastator Squad - Sergeant (Storm Bolter, Terminator Honours, Auspex) - 3 Missile Marines - Heavy Plasma Marine - 5 Marines -267 More Tank Killers  plus the auspex will let me take a pot shot (or 10) at any infiltrators dan may have near them.Total: 2000pts
__________________ WIN/DRAW/LOSS On The Battlefield 5 / 1 / 4 |
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08-14-2007
| #5 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland
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Blog Entries: 1 | just to say when dan moves his vipers and wave serpents up 12"-24" the ordnance pie plate from the vindicator with wreak havoc on his lightly armored vipers and is a pretty much garenteed kill of one serpent a turn: S10 + D6 + D6 + AP1 = Auto penetrates any armor it hits of 12 or lower, thus all eldar vehicles All dan has are 3 bright lances to stop it with which have only a 36" range so my vibro cannons can take the vipers bearing them at least stall them a turn for the big gun to mow them down
__________________ "The heart that quavers in the breast be damned! We'll stand our ground right here upon the field; And we'll provide the carnage and the slaughter -Roland Vote on the Battlefield <---Pssst! Thats a link |
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08-14-2007
| #6 (permalink) | |
| Confused and Enraged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South-east Ireland
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| Quote:
40k rulebook P.69
__________________ Don't complain about that which you can change. Change it yourself or it won't change at all... As for that which is unchangeable. Stop complaining, you're annoying me... Vote On The Battlefield | |
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08-14-2007
| #7 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland
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Blog Entries: 1 | eh, so its an auto glance so what? The glances will slow them down for the next round of shooting or immobilize or destroy them(Same thing with skimmers ). It auto glances and they gotta slow down to disembark so it'll penetrate eventually (If the glances didn't already do the job)
__________________ "The heart that quavers in the breast be damned! We'll stand our ground right here upon the field; And we'll provide the carnage and the slaughter -Roland Vote on the Battlefield <---Pssst! Thats a link |
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08-14-2007
| #8 (permalink) |
| Just A Regular Joe. Again Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Butte, Montana
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Blog Entries: 5 | still with that many glancing hits the odds of rolling at least 1 6 in say 15 are VERY GOOD. that is each turn. besides if they are pinned, they cant skim
__________________ WIN/DRAW/LOSS On The Battlefield 5 / 1 / 4 |
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08-14-2007
| #9 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland
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Blog Entries: 1 | plus immobilized is destroyed for skimmers so that doubles the chances!  (I know I posted a lot but I'm excited  )
__________________ "The heart that quavers in the breast be damned! We'll stand our ground right here upon the field; And we'll provide the carnage and the slaughter -Roland Vote on the Battlefield <---Pssst! Thats a link |
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08-14-2007
| #10 (permalink) |
| Confused and Enraged Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South-east Ireland
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| That's only if they moved more than 6" in their last movement phase...otherwise they're immobilised as normal.
__________________ Don't complain about that which you can change. Change it yourself or it won't change at all... As for that which is unchangeable. Stop complaining, you're annoying me... Vote On The Battlefield |
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08-14-2007
| #11 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Maryland
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Blog Entries: 1 | ah but stubber the cannon only glances if they DID move over 6" so thats what I was talking about
__________________ "The heart that quavers in the breast be damned! We'll stand our ground right here upon the field; And we'll provide the carnage and the slaughter -Roland Vote on the Battlefield <---Pssst! Thats a link |
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08-14-2007
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Master Procrastinator     Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: As a figment of my own deranged imagination, i don't actually exist anywhere. Or London, UK.
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Blog Entries: 1 | d'ya want someone to vote or would you guys prefer to waffle on for a bit longer?  this game looks like a lot of fun, with plenty of vypers and speeders on both sides i can easily imagine the dogfights that'll happen. as for who's gonna win...i'm giving it tobrain and steve. dan just seems a little too thin on the ground numbers wise and the troops hes does have are kind of on the fragile side.
__________________ Quote:
 Howling At The Moon - A Truescale Space Wolf W.I.P Black Legion W.I.P Frozen Leaves Falling to Cut - eldar W.I.P | |
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08-15-2007
| #13 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Nov 2006
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| Im sorry but my votes going to have to go to Dan,. 3 Fireprisms! Out ranges anything brain and steve bring to the fight, and if all 3 'link' up then thats a Str7 Ap2 large blast with reroll and 60" range, screw the vindicator and d-cannons. Thats gonna make a mess of any infantry or light vehicles. Devastator Squad? that smoking pile of ash on the left sir. Support weapon battery? Twisted wreckage on the right sir. Its all very well saying your gonna pin stuff with the snipers but when our stealthy friends are taken apart by the hosts of vipers or pie plates from the fireprisms... |
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08-15-2007
| #14 (permalink) |
| Primer  Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles
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| And remember that Wave Serpents have the Energy Field Special Rule, saying that any attack not going against their back armor counts as Str8 and doesn't roll more than +1d6 for armor pen (so no 2d6 for melta or ordnance). I'm gonna have to put the win on Dan269 Baronspikey pointed this out, but I wanted to restate that those three fire prisms can and are going to, turn any infantry or vehicles into ash. Your striking scorpions are probably going to kill a banshee squad, but since you're going at the same I, then he'll probably take you down with him. Plus, one dire avenger squad w/ bladestorm can pump out like 32 shots at practically anything they want a turn (especially with the skimmer's mobility). Oh and those terminators DSing dont stand a chance against his Shining Spears that after taking out your terminators, can even kill tanks with that Star Lance and Laser Lances. I haven't even bothered to mention what havoc those Vypers can cause and the support the Farseer and Autarch can give.
__________________ "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. " -Jack Handy (Deep Thoughts) |
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08-15-2007
| #15 (permalink) |
| First Chaplain  Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY
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Blog Entries: 5 | Baron and Ezra took my reasons. After careful thought, gotta hand it to Dan. Sorry Steve and Brain.. Just gotta go with the Eldar.
__________________  "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter |
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08-15-2007
| #16 (permalink) |
| Adeptus Arbrites  Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ohio
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Blog Entries: 2 | My moneys on Dan and Stubber, Dan for the win. I have to agree with Spikey and Ezra. They have some things that allow them the advantage in this scenario. The build up of Eldar tanks is really what sways this match.
__________________  From Necromunda to Apocalypse, your one stop for fun! Last edited by Celestial Guardian; 08-16-2007 at 12:08 AM. |
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08-15-2007
| #17 (permalink) |
| Adeptus Arbrites  Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: socal
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| this one is hard, at first glance i thought brain and steve all the way, but then spike reminded me about the nasty eldar tank linkup, but i think im still gonna say brain and steve but i honestly think it will come down the the dice gods.
__________________ Let the galaxy be illuminated, As it burns!!!  |
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08-15-2007
| #18 (permalink) |
| God-Emperor   Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington
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Blog Entries: 3 | There is a lot of snipers, terminators, rangers, heavy platforms and Wwalkers, devies that seem to be slow or stay put. Objective wise, I am not seeing them really claiming much. Or if they did, out of sheer numbers, then they are still going to have to live 6 turns of staying there or so? Well thats where I think killing power would deny that being so. From reading the lists, it seems that what Dan has has enough power to both kill and survive the tag team lists. My vote goes to DAN
__________________ Ask not what the Emperor can do for you, but what you can do for the Emperor. BLOOD ANGELS 2k - Angels of Angryz!!  |
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08-16-2007
| #19 (permalink) |
| Captain Join Date: Nov 2006
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| In the end it seems like the tag team didn't do what i envisaged when i suggested this sort of battle for the battlefield, they didn't COMMUNICATE. To get the best out of a team you need to talk to your partner so that when your lists are posted they work as a seamless whole. For Example: Using Space Marines to cover the Eldar's cons (fragility) and vice versa (Elite army so numbers and speed is a problem). Ah well sometimes you learn by making mistakes. |
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08-16-2007
| #20 (permalink) |
| Adeptus Arbrites  Join Date: Oct 2006
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| "Autarch, they approuch. They have lowered themselves to allying with the Mon-Keih elite." "prepare for battle!" Autarch Llo-Sen climbed up onto his jetbike and kicked on the anti-grav units. he rose a meter into the air. the warriors of the two Shining Spear temples rose with him. "we are with you Autarch." spoke the Exarchs. Behind him, the Avatar of Khaine grasped the Wailing Doom, which was this time manifested in a firey trident. Truly the god was on their side, not these blood-traitors. aak! i hadnt noticed that he had put it up so i didnt put up tactics. so far, the score stands at ME: FIVE the lowly, scummy enemy, a mere two. neway, heres da plan Dan296 Eldar HQ Autarch w/laser lance, mandiblasters, jetbike -130 in one of the spear squads Avatar of khaine -155 the avatar makes units close to it fearless. not sure about this, but fearless units cant be pinned. pinning, anyway, is barely a sure thing. eldar have very good leadership, so its a far cry to say that alot of my stuff is going to be pinned. you have to kill something first. Farseer-spirit stones, doom, guide -120 support unit, anything doomed will be just that. dire avengers with guide, thats just GG! ELITES 10 howling banshees -160 10 howling banshees -160 assault targets of opprotunity. and lets think for a sec. striking scorpians vs. banshees. I GO BEFORE THE SCORPIANS!! banshee masks reduce your initiative by one, so even your exarch is at the same time as my gals. plus, theyre moving together so JIK anything survives the other squad, and the AVATAR, is coming in hard and fast. 10 fire dragons -160 wave serpent w/ twin linked shuriken cannons -100 do you really have to ask? tank and terminator hunters. TROOPS 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 10 dire avengers, exarch w/ duel shuriken catapults, bladestorm -152 wave serpent w/ twin linked scatter lasers -115 they use the Cobra Style (Fish of Fury, eldar style) 12 jetbikes, 4 w/ shuriken cannons -304 hit n run units. very fast, tough. FAST ATTACK 5 shining spears, exarch w/ withdraw -212 5 shining spears, exarch w/ withdraw -212 hit n run units. both squads strike as one. autarch is with them. 3 Vypers w/ starcannons -210 marine killers. no more devvies with 3 ap3 blast templates on your face. 3 Vypers w/ bright lances -225 skimmer hunters. landspeeders and vypers are goin down. 3 Vypers w/ scatter lasers -180 3 Vypers w/ scatter lasers -180 erm...again. say goodbye snipers. HEAVY SUPPORT Fire prism -115 Fire prism -115 Fire prism -115 bright lances arent the only tank hunters out here! that vindicator wont get a single shot off! 24'' range? ok...i have 60'' range. S10 AP1 linked shot, and ill have one to spare to annighilate the vibro cannons. a big pie plate will cover 2 guns, and then the next turn the survivors are gone. 36'' wont matter when youre blasted away in turn 2. 2 War walkers w/ twin linked shuriken cannons -80 kiss scouts and pathfinders goodbye. any lightly armoured units are going down. Total: 4001pts the basic plan is a single, flank assault against whatever side the enemy eldar would be on (cause theyre the easier target.) jetbikes and dire avengers in wave 1, followed closely by the avatar, farseer, and howling banshees, wave serpents and vypers in support. the Avengers will use the Cobra tactic (i just named it that.) basicly a fish of fury type thing. they will be close together and unload together, bladestorm, jump back in the serpents and withdraw. bladestorming w/10 avengers is 44 shuriken shots. storm guardians, marines, anything. gone. two squads together bladestorming? scary. shining spears, if not in assault, are support units. anything deep striking down will be jumped on. and i go before anything the marines have, and the warp spiders arent that good in assault vs. 11 jetbikes. Last edited by Dan296; 08-16-2007 at 01:08 PM. |
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08-16-2007
| #21 (permalink) | |
| Lieutenant  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Im not entirely sure. I think im stuck inside an alternate reality where im blue and the sky is me.
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Blog Entries: 1  | My vote goes to Dan.. To put it short, Dan has enough to counter both Steve and Brain, plus some of the comments already posted.
__________________  'Heretical filth... I am an Inquisitor... I AM YOUR JUST LAW!' - Inquisitor Julius Sedaire  Quote:
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