Space *** Samuirs or Communists?

[Steellegioncpt]

OK so there is always that arguement that I keep on hearing about Tau being either communists or japenesse samuirs.

Let me give my point of the two specturms.

Communist arguement-
"The Greater Good" a strong tau theory and way of thinking in their society. That if the death of 100 tau civilians saves 1000 in the long run there will be nothing stopping the trigger (so to speak).
**arguement summarized**

Japenesse arguement (spelling japenesse wrong?)
THe idea of the Fire Earth Water and Air elements into their society. That method is used a lot in the old ***. mindset that those elements are the glue of the universe. Also their roles as each element the fire being the warriors. The water as the diplomats or something. The Earth being the builders. The Air being the ships. And water being the diplomats. At least that how I think it breaks down, Im not too sure. Also the Ethereals, can be seen as the imperial family.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

first of all, all comers DO NOT take this to be another communist arguement thing. plz. an arguement about communis's good bad and whatever will make people unhappy, and there's going to be flaming. things i dont want.

and on the actual subject, the tau caste system is communist.
the way russia and china had it working was "equality in rights, supplies, etc" and everyone was assignend a role in society by skills

[MarkedByChaos]

Here Here!

as my friend says,

Eldar are French Elves
Tau are Japanese Elves

IG are Russian in tactic
Tau are Rusian in Fluff

[american_ninja]

I suspect that it would be more accurate to call the Tau Confucian rather than Japanese. The five elements correspond broadly to the five elements in classical Chinese cosmology (water, wood, fire, metal, and earth). In addition, Confucian theory stratifies society (in descending order) into Scholars, Peasants (farmers), Artisans, Merchants, and Warriors. If these five segments of society work in harmony, the kingdom flourishes. If something disrupts this harmony, the kingdom collapses and a new kingdom rises.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

neo-Confuci-communists. yep thats what they are.
the thing is, I didn't really think the NAME of the caste mattered, just how it was divided. the caste system dictated that they'd be one assigned one role in life and stayed at that. just like how communist societies and economies are supposed to work.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

In my mind there's no doubt that the Tau are communists!
I hate the Tau with a passion, GW should be rewarded for creating a fictional race that inspires such hatred within me!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

what did i just say? this is NOT an arguement about communism's good bad and whatnot.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

You misunderstand me, I don't hate the Tau because of the whole Communism thing...I just hate the Tau full stop!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

ah. my mistake.

[american_ninja]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

neo-Confuci-communists. yep thats what they are.
the thing is, I didn't really think the NAME of the caste mattered, just how it was divided. the caste system dictated that they'd be one assigned one role in life and stayed at that. just like how communist societies and economies are supposed to work.

Except that Communism sought to do away with that sort of stratification. "To each according to their abilities..." and all that. People were expected to contribute according to their aptitudes, rather than remaining frozen in place based on their predecessors' occupations. Japanese Neo-Confucianism, as practiced under the Tokugawa regime, is the only version I know of that allows for zero social mobility.

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

I agree about the Confucian theory. The Tau certainly fit that criteria, but the fire-caste is alot like the Samurai, so yes, they are a Confucian/Japanese based raced IMO.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

well I'm fairly sure that the fluff for the Fire Warrior game (and the subsequent novel) said that you can FAIL fire warrior training and get booted to other castes.
I think the caste system is fixed for individuals so taht they cant switch inter-caste wise, but does not limit their entire bloodline to one caste

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by american_ninja

Except that Communism sought to do away with that sort of stratification. "To each according to their abilities..." and all that. People were expected to contribute according to their aptitudes, rather than remaining frozen in place based on their predecessors' occupations. Japanese Neo-Confucianism, as practiced under the Tokugawa regime, is the only version I know of that allows for zero social mobility.

The hindu Caste system is pretty much the same thing.

[Electric Badger]

They're very Confucian, I think, and not particularly Samurai in my opinion.

Confucian ideals involve every person and thing doing its part, supporting the greater whole; not particularly communist, however, as there is a specific LACK of equality and instead a glorification of the benevolent tyrant.

The Tau are not particularly Samurai for various reasons. First and most obviously they abhore physical combat and classic/conservative weapons. Niether are they motivated by personal honor and glorification as much as the success of the culture generally. Finally, unlike Samurai there is no pretense of leadership by the warrior class: the fire caste are NOT in charge, and those who seek to be are outcast elements. The leadership of a separate, specialist caste is more reminiscent of the scholarly tyrants of Confucianism and the advancement test system of classic China than the warrior-code and leadership by honor of Bushido.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

hmm... quite.
however the Ethereal class is above the other classes, and rules them, which sort of harkens back to communism (or at least human kinds' faild interpretations of them)

[Stubber]

I'd say the Tau succeded in a form of communism where Humans failed.

All historical communist governments had a single leader who often drove said government into the ground.

The Tau have an entire caste of leaders who all have similar objectives in mind so they work well together and fill in the holes in eachothers methods.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

id say theyre japanese - the thereal is very much the fifth element - wood or metal. fire warriors are samuari (even though theyre crap in combat). battlesuits are manga/anime suits

theyre japanese

there are arguments for the communists but look and feel does a lot more than backgroubd i think

[Dan296]

yea i second that
old japanese in modeling and gaming, and also some backround
communist in fluff