Horus and Abbadon - 40K Terra

Dragoon King · 08-13-2007

Is Abbadon the clone of Horus? Why exactly did Horus disable the shields around his ship just when his moment of victory was at hand? I know Abbadon has his Talon, but didn't Horus also use a mace? What became of it?

Ides · 08-13-2007

From what I understand of it, horus had counted on his forces delaying the Ultramarines, Dark Angels and White Scars (was it?) from reaching Terra longer than they did. When he heard those legions had broken out and were on their way to terra, he knew that he would not have won the battle before they arrived. He only lowered his shields as one last, desperate gambit to achieve victory. And he failed.

From what I understand, the rumours about Abbadon and Horus are just that; rumours. Don't think GW has ever or will ever endorse more than speculation.

Warmaster Romulas · 08-13-2007

im not sure about the sheilds thing but what i do know for sure
Abbadon was the captain of the first company of the Luna Wolves/Sons of horus/ black legion the 16th geneseed/legion
abbadon could not be a clone but he could be a resonable make up
for the legions were created and moving across the stars before the Primarchs were "found"
remember the primarch babys were scattered all around the galaxy
and the emperor use their genetic make up to make 20 or 18 legions since 2 are wiped from the records
when he was reunited with a primarch he put them in charge of their respective legion
so thats why abbadon couldnt be a clone

Lord Commander Erus · 08-13-2007

There are space marines created after the finding of the Primarchs, from the planet the primarchs were found on. Also, it states in the Horus Heresy books that Horus lowered his shields in the bet that the Emperor would see the sign and taking it as hubris and strike. The Emperor didn't know the other Legions were on the way, or he wouldn't have struck. He struck because Horus didn't know that the loyalists likely wouldn't have even lasted until they could be reinforced.

Abbadon could be a clone.

The White Scars were already on Terra, and prevented most of the full might of the World Eaters from hitting the palace of Terra. They even won back the Eternity Space port I believe, or atleast A space port.

Dragoon King · 08-13-2007

What happened to Horus's mace? Didn't he kill Sanguinius with it?

Lord Commander Erus · 08-13-2007

My theory is that it was left behind in the ship or destroyed by the Emperor. Sangunius was also killed by Horus claw and then strangled (or by the Emperors sword, if you are a dirty filthy radical).

Dragoon King · 08-13-2007

Hmmm. Why would Abaddon take the Talon but not the mace? Seems a little weird to me, but then again, did awaken Drach'nyen. What happened to the rest of Horus's remains?

Warmaster Romulas · 08-13-2007

the warriors from the planets were not full space marines they were augmented but most did not go through the ritual to become marine they were to old and their bodies would reject the implants but they were almost as powerful as marines
it wasnt until they were able to properly indoctrinate new marines from the home planets that full fledges marines were produced from the native planets of the respective chapters

horus's body was takein into the eye of terror
and later destroyed i think because fabius bile tried to clone him
still the club is MIA

Dragoon King · 08-13-2007

Why don't the Chaos followers try to find one of the most powerful of their relics? Is it something that Arhiman and his Cabal would seek?

Templar Mikeel · 08-13-2007

IIRC, Abbadon destroyed Horus's body.

Dan296 · 08-13-2007

Horus' body was taken into the eye of terror by the black legion, were fabius bile tried to clone him. however, the Emperors Children got into a fight with the black legion and stole Horus and destroyed his body. his mace was likely destroyed by the Emperor. abbadon did not destroy horus's body.

As pointed out to me by YOU Erus, when you look at Saguinius's armour in the (in?)famous drawing of the confrontation between Horus and the Emperor, look at the wound in his side. look at iiit!!
its just one, clean, slash. lightning claws have.....3 blades...1 slash=sword. whats the emperor holding?

well the theory on this is that when horus offered sag the opprotunity to join him, somehow he persuaded sag to join. the emperor emerged to see sag shaking horus's hand, and the emperor cut him down. sag, in his death, repented and it is THIS sorrow, and the outrage about learning the truth when they go into the little vision state, that causes the black rage among the blood angels.

as to why horus lowered his sheilds, he knew that the wolfies and dark angels were fast approuching (not ultramarines. word bearers did a good job in stalling the smurfs) and that he couldnt defeat the loyalists before they arrived, and when they arrived he knew he was beat. so he gambled, and lost. sux.
ANGRON, though is still alive and is still kickin butt and takin skulls! BFTBG!

Dragoon King · 08-13-2007

I was completely unaware that their was a conspiracy theory on the death of Saguinius. Holy smokes, why would the Emperor kill him? The one slash theory put forth by Dan does intriuge me though....

Imperial Commander Gent · 08-13-2007

You are all dirty fitlhy heretics! The inquisition will wipe you scum from the universe and your dark teachings will not be spread any further! The emperor did not kill Sanguinius and Sanguinius NEVER turned!

hairyyahoo · 08-13-2007

ok this is 2nd ed stuff but meh. the warmasters body was recovered and wound up in the hands of the emperors children who cloned him a couple of times. this kinda rubbed abadon the wrong way so he gathered but the black legion and destroyed all the clones and the remains of horus. don't know what happened to the mace though. probably got broke by the big E.

DeAd_cOmMaNdO · 08-14-2007

horus body was taken by (sons of Horus?) to a world and entombed there.

wasnt he cloned at some point after he died?

or am i thinking of the emperor in star wars?

im confused

Baron Spikey · 08-14-2007

Sons of Horus (yes they were still called that) took Horus' body into the Eye of Terror as they fled, after several brutal battles between the traitor legions for resources Horus' body was stolen by the Emperors Children who cloned him, sickened by this indignity to their father's body the Sons of Horus attacked the Emperors Children's base. They destroyed the base and with it Horus' body and the mewling clones, after this Abaddon took full control of the legion and renamed them the Black Legion.

DeAd_cOmMaNdO · 08-14-2007

thanks for the info! so i was kinda right

Dragoon King · 08-15-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by baronspikey

Sons of Horus (yes they were still called that) took Horus' body into the Eye of Terror as they fled, after several brutal battles between the traitor legions for resources Horus' body was stolen by the Emperors Children who cloned him, sickened by this indignity to their father's body the Sons of Horus attacked the Emperors Children's base. They destroyed the base and with it Horus' body and the mewling clones, after this Abaddon took full control of the legion and renamed them the Black Legion.

Why were the EC trying to clone him? Were all the clones abominations or was one successful? In theory, Abbadon could be one of the clones, right?

Lord Commander Erus · 08-16-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Why were the EC trying to clone him? Were all the clones abominations or was one successful? In theory, Abbadon could be one of the clones, right?

That might also explain we he so reacted to the clones that way. Also, the EC were by that time obsessed with perfection through experimentation. Taking Horus' body and cloning it allows them to take a primarch (epitome of astartes power and such) and enhance it further.

Baron Spikey · 08-16-2007

Remember Fabius Bile the self titled 'Primogenitor' was still technically part of the Emperor's Children at this point. I can only imagine how delighted he would be to get his hands on Horus' body, as a senior member of his legion at that time he would have had enough authority to ensure the theft of the Warmaster's body.

Of course this is just conjecture but its still, i think anyway, an interesting possibilty

Ides · 08-17-2007

Isn't there a conspiracy that El'johnson held off on coming to Terra because he was waiting to see who won?

and I can'r see any wound in the horus vs the emperor pic...

08-13-2007	#1 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,660 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Horus and Abbadon Is Abbadon the clone of Horus? Why exactly did Horus disable the shields around his ship just when his moment of victory was at hand? I know Abbadon has his Talon, but didn't Horus also use a mace? What became of it? __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana.

08-13-2007	#2 (permalink)
Ides Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,099 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts Blog Entries: 4	From what I understand of it, horus had counted on his forces delaying the Ultramarines, Dark Angels and White Scars (was it?) from reaching Terra longer than they did. When he heard those legions had broken out and were on their way to terra, he knew that he would not have won the battle before they arrived. He only lowered his shields as one last, desperate gambit to achieve victory. And he failed. From what I understand, the rumours about Abbadon and Horus are just that; rumours. Don't think GW has ever or will ever endorse more than speculation. __________________ The opinions posted above are solely the property of the Ides account and are in no way representative of those views held by the staff of this forum. For sale: One soul. Mint Condition, never been used.

08-13-2007	#3 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	im not sure about the sheilds thing but what i do know for sure Abbadon was the captain of the first company of the Luna Wolves/Sons of horus/ black legion the 16th geneseed/legion abbadon could not be a clone but he could be a resonable make up for the legions were created and moving across the stars before the Primarchs were "found" remember the primarch babys were scattered all around the galaxy and the emperor use their genetic make up to make 20 or 18 legions since 2 are wiped from the records when he was reunited with a primarch he put them in charge of their respective legion so thats why abbadon couldnt be a clone __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

08-13-2007	#4 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 344 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	There are space marines created after the finding of the Primarchs, from the planet the primarchs were found on. Also, it states in the Horus Heresy books that Horus lowered his shields in the bet that the Emperor would see the sign and taking it as hubris and strike. The Emperor didn't know the other Legions were on the way, or he wouldn't have struck. He struck because Horus didn't know that the loyalists likely wouldn't have even lasted until they could be reinforced. Abbadon could be a clone. The White Scars were already on Terra, and prevented most of the full might of the World Eaters from hitting the palace of Terra. They even won back the Eternity Space port I believe, or atleast A space port. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

08-13-2007	#5 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,660 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	What happened to Horus's mace? Didn't he kill Sanguinius with it? __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana.

08-13-2007	#6 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 344 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	My theory is that it was left behind in the ship or destroyed by the Emperor. Sangunius was also killed by Horus claw and then strangled (or by the Emperors sword, if you are a dirty filthy radical). __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

08-13-2007	#7 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,660 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Hmmm. Why would Abaddon take the Talon but not the mace? Seems a little weird to me, but then again, did awaken Drach'nyen. What happened to the rest of Horus's remains? __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana. Last edited by Dragoon King; 08-13-2007 at 07:58 PM.

08-13-2007	#8 (permalink)
Warmaster Romulas Major Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!!U-S-A!! Posts: 1,771 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 204 Thanked 122 Times in 96 Posts	the warriors from the planets were not full space marines they were augmented but most did not go through the ritual to become marine they were to old and their bodies would reject the implants but they were almost as powerful as marines it wasnt until they were able to properly indoctrinate new marines from the home planets that full fledges marines were produced from the native planets of the respective chapters horus's body was takein into the eye of terror and later destroyed i think because fabius bile tried to clone him still the club is MIA __________________ ""A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins." Frederick Douglass "A toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, if we dont get no tolls then we dont eat no rolls" Little John Robin Hood: Men in Tights CLICK HERE TO SEE My July Painting Comp Entry Chaplain Charlie

08-13-2007	#9 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,660 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Why don't the Chaos followers try to find one of the most powerful of their relics? Is it something that Arhiman and his Cabal would seek? __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana.

08-13-2007	#11 (permalink)
Dan296 Adeptus Arbrites Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,691 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 14 Thanked 67 Times in 36 Posts	Horus' body was taken into the eye of terror by the black legion, were fabius bile tried to clone him. however, the Emperors Children got into a fight with the black legion and stole Horus and destroyed his body. his mace was likely destroyed by the Emperor. abbadon did not destroy horus's body. As pointed out to me by YOU Erus, when you look at Saguinius's armour in the (in?)famous drawing of the confrontation between Horus and the Emperor, look at the wound in his side. look at iiit!! its just one, clean, slash. lightning claws have.....3 blades...1 slash=sword. whats the emperor holding? well the theory on this is that when horus offered sag the opprotunity to join him, somehow he persuaded sag to join. the emperor emerged to see sag shaking horus's hand, and the emperor cut him down. sag, in his death, repented and it is THIS sorrow, and the outrage about learning the truth when they go into the little vision state, that causes the black rage among the blood angels. as to why horus lowered his sheilds, he knew that the wolfies and dark angels were fast approuching (not ultramarines. word bearers did a good job in stalling the smurfs) and that he couldnt defeat the loyalists before they arrived, and when they arrived he knew he was beat. so he gambled, and lost. sux. ANGRON, though is still alive and is still kickin butt and takin skulls! BFTBG!

08-13-2007	#12 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,660 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	I was completely unaware that their was a conspiracy theory on the death of Saguinius. Holy smokes, why would the Emperor kill him? The one slash theory put forth by Dan does intriuge me though.... __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana.

08-13-2007	#13 (permalink)
Imperial Commander Gent Your Local Ori Prior Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: According to some I dont actually exist, or I am not a real person! Posts: 890 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 93 Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts	You are all dirty fitlhy heretics! The inquisition will wipe you scum from the universe and your dark teachings will not be spread any further! The emperor did not kill Sanguinius and Sanguinius NEVER turned! __________________ Hallowed are the Ori. Hallowed are the children of the Ori. Hallowed are we; hallowed are the Ori. Those who seek the path to enlightenment must not be led astray! Believe in the truth of all things and you too may find the path to enlightenment. Those who stray must be guided back to the path. Those who abandon the path are evil. Those who reject the path to enlightenment, must be destroyed. Enemies of the Ori show no mercy in their attempts to draw believers away from the path

08-14-2007	#15 (permalink)
DeAd_cOmMaNdO Conscript Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 88 Thanked 62 Times in 69 Posts Blog Entries: 5	horus body was taken by (sons of Horus?) to a world and entombed there. wasnt he cloned at some point after he died? or am i thinking of the emperor in star wars? im confused

08-14-2007	#16 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 112 Times in 92 Posts	Sons of Horus (yes they were still called that) took Horus' body into the Eye of Terror as they fled, after several brutal battles between the traitor legions for resources Horus' body was stolen by the Emperors Children who cloned him, sickened by this indignity to their father's body the Sons of Horus attacked the Emperors Children's base. They destroyed the base and with it Horus' body and the mewling clones, after this Abaddon took full control of the legion and renamed them the Black Legion.

08-14-2007	#17 (permalink)
DeAd_cOmMaNdO Conscript Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 88 Thanked 62 Times in 69 Posts Blog Entries: 5	thanks for the info! so i was kinda right

08-16-2007	#20 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,577 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 112 Times in 92 Posts	Remember Fabius Bile the self titled 'Primogenitor' was still technically part of the Emperor's Children at this point. I can only imagine how delighted he would be to get his hands on Horus' body, as a senior member of his legion at that time he would have had enough authority to ensure the theft of the Warmaster's body. Of course this is just conjecture but its still, i think anyway, an interesting possibilty

08-17-2007	#21 (permalink)
Ides Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,099 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts Blog Entries: 4	Isn't there a conspiracy that El'johnson held off on coming to Terra because he was waiting to see who won? and I can'r see any wound in the horus vs the emperor pic... __________________ The opinions posted above are solely the property of the Ides account and are in no way representative of those views held by the staff of this forum. For sale: One soul. Mint Condition, never been used.

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