The Black Saints (Imperial Space Marines - Blood Angels Sucessor)

---Intro/Questions---

So, as my 6th Grand Company draws to a close, the question is being drawn: How should I do my next army? They are a Dark Angel successor chapter, who have (I won't spoil fluff I plan to post) 'fallen' in the eyes of their founders.

My intent is to have them to be dark, brooding, and sinister. I though to enforce this I would use robes of GS (I just don't care for the DA robed bodies being one piece), which some DA and BT bits. Possibly a few Blood Angels bits. They will be tainted by Malal, so their iconography will be in black and white, and their armor is black trimmed in a dirty, gritty bleached bone. Their chapter icon is yet up for debate, as I need some advice there. So... My questions are this:

1. What bits should I use for a good pre-heresy theme to the army that still conveys the sinister aura?
2. Should I really go through the trouble of GS on the robes, or would some BT/DA or other robed bits work well?
3. Would doing all the marines in some sort of robe/tabard/hood design be over-doing it?
4. What would need to be done to chaos raptor backpacks to make them pre-heresy, or is there a better bit?

---Current Ideas---

High Prelate Antonius

http://www.coolminiornot.com/149889

I was thinking of a crozius like this, with black and white coloring to reflect Malal. I may also add a lot of skulls to him, but not quite as insane as this guys. Armor, robing/hooding will be drawn from this conversion:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/148076

I just liked the kind of evil feel it gave off. Noble, as well as brooding. Is that a Chaos Warrior helm under the hood, btw?

Master Adonis, Knight-Baron of the Council of 13

http://www.coolminiornot.com/120212

I though of using the Emperors Champion body, and this type of pose. He will have a jet pack and thunder hammer though, and the hood over his helmet. I have had trouble finding a suitable hammer bit for this pose, any bits ideas or known ways to make one by hand?


Various Squad leaders, etc..

http://www.coolminiornot.com/122677

I thought of drawing from this type of armor, with hoods and robes ala the Chaplain. What bits or such went into this, do you think, or was a lot of it done by hand?


Lord Valorin of the Steel Hand

http://www.coolminiornot.com/117022

This pose is perfect, for sinister look and all. I would change the head piece to something else, a more pre-heresy feel. But I like the heavy, almost mechanical look to him. Any ideas on how to integrate the Chapter theme into something kinda like the above mini, or the general bad-ass heavy hitter feel?


Galin, First of the Ten (weak, I know..)

http://www.coolminiornot.com/85519

I really liked this idea for my vets, with possibly more ornate armor for Galin, and the robing along the idea of the Chaplains, maybe full length robes. These men (the veteran squad), along with Antonius, Adonis, and the Terminator Sargeant (as of yet un-named) will be the Council of Thirteen, so they will need too look regal, without being baroque and ornate.The question is... How the hell to get that armor to look like that?


General Assault Marines, marines, and their sergeants

http://www.coolminiornot.com/37311

No set inspiration here, the above link was just an idea I liked for the tactical marines, with maybe some hooding or tabarding/robing. I just need to decide whether each type (tactical and assault) will have full or partial robes, and whether they will have hoods, etc... The real question is, robing or just armor? And if I do, is that mini above close to accurate for pre-heresy (they will be helmeted).
http://www.40kterra.com/forums/newth...ewthread&f=148
40k Terra - Your #1 40k source. - Post New Thread
Scouts

These boys will be snipers, with one missile launcher, totaling six men with a sniper wielding sergeant. How should this guys be done? I had though using sniper scouts, and just green stuffing hoods on the cloaks to make them look kinda masked and mysterious. That way I don't have SO MUCH converting, lol.


Terminators

http://www.coolminiornot.com/149500

My thought has been the robed image like this. Though I had also considered straight up pre-heresy style with the hood and a half robe (torso with hanging tabbard bit, no arms or legs). No further ideas, as they will each have personalized armor to represent their elite status, so they will be the last unit of my army to be built.

[Baron Spikey]

Ah excellent. They all sound really cool, I cant wait to see how they turn out. If only so I know how to accurately base the Penitent Knight/Black Saints marine.

[Knight-Sergeant Adonis member of the Council of Seven, one of the highest ranking members of the Order of the Raging Torrent and one of the select few outside of the Chaplaincy who is an Enforcer of Ordo law]

[Ides]

Well, Personally, I'd go for all helmets, as I think faces detract from the menace of it all. Robe-wise, depends on your preference, but I'd definitely go for the larger CSM shoulder-pads to add to the heavy look.

Originally Posted by Ides

Well, Personally, I'd go for all helmets, as I think faces detract from the menace of it all. Robe-wise, depends on your preference, but I'd definitely go for the larger CSM shoulder-pads to add to the heavy look.

After talking with Ikarus, I was thinking a good veterans head would be the Crusade era Dark Angels one, the new plastic set. Already has a hood sculpted on.

For the devastators sargeant: http://www.bwbits.com/product/44-0120. (The one with a bionic eye.) Or, http://www.bwbits.com/product/44-0836.

Veterans: http://www.bwbits.com/product/44-0122.

For most of my shoulderpads, I will probbaly use the CSM shoulderpads with 'flak guards'. ( http://www.bwbits.com/product/43-0627 ). Without iconography, or with icons filed off, of course!

More updates as they come. Expect this project to start in oh... 1-2 months?

[r4wr89]

hmm..i'm not a fan of the techmarine head, it's not as cool in my opinion. however i think the hooded bionic helmet and the crusader helmet would look great! :] good luck on those...and until next time, erus :]
-ant

[Ides]

I'd go for the robed head with helmets as opposed to the techmarine, but only painting will tell really..

I now have had a break through, and have decided how to include the robed look and not worry about posing on my marines.

For assault squads, devastators, and likely terminators, they will bear a surcoat, like unto those worn by crusading Knights. Rather like this:

http://www.mwart.com/xq/ASP.productl...eart-tunic.htm

The helmets will likely be all crusade marks, with the devastators having a helm (provided I can find a bit) like this:

http://www.mwart.com/xq/ASP.productl...great-helm.htm
http://www.mwart.com/xq/ASP.productl...lar-helmet.htm

The largish, square helm often called a 'sugar loaf' helm to those who know their terminology. Have not yet decided on the surcoat colors, but I have thought a black trimmed in silver, or a dark grey almost black.

The assault squads have been thought to have a variety of hand axes/hammers, with bolt pistols to boot. I am not sure how to model the flamers, though I think I would want something larger and more 'medieval looking'. I may well use some of the old devastator shoulder mounts weapons and modify them with flamer bits.

I had thought of giving the tactical squad halbreds or spears, as those were common for Crusade Era foot troops. I also plan on arming the veterans with (where applicable) gladius or bastard sword type weapons, as both of those will fit well.

For my commanders, they will likely be robed (librarian), tabbarded (chaplain), and the Chapter Master will be th only model in less ornate power armor, still like the first emperors champion model I showed you from before.

My only question on bits are power fists and lightning claws. What do you suggest to make those weapons look more, almost crude but not.. Still efficient, but I guess older. I was thinking overlapping plates on the power fist (where it would be smooth) along with flanging on the lightning claws, with 'rivets' to boot on both.

A shout out to Cag goes here too: Are you still up for helping to design my a Chapter Icon? Let me know if you are man!

---Edit---
I have also picked up a full SM command squad, an extra case, as well as a large amount (possibly) of assualt marines from a friend, and hopefully some tactical marines. I may have the beginnings for Adonis, Antonius, and Remus(Epistolary I have made up as an alternate HQ, and I just really want to model a Librarian!) along with some more assault marines and the sniper squad from our own Brother Ambrose. I am intent to buy the old Lord Solarus body to use as a scout sargeant for my army, but have been told I would be crucified by a local player if I did. Also, any suggestions for bits as far as helmets, etc.. go?

[Ides]

I think the Bretonnian Knight models would be a fairly safe bet for the helms.

Or failing that, just take the Mk2 Crusade Helms from the Black Templar upgrade sprue.

By April 7th at the latest I shall have the beginnings of the Black Saints! Namely a full assault squad, the Epistolary Romulus, the High Prelate Antonius, the Lord Galenus (formerly Galin) as well as some possible recruits into the squad of Praetor Valorius (Terminator Squad... 'Deus Manus Imperator' the Hands of the God-Emperor . Please forgive syntax errors, it has been 2 years since latin). I have also decided to do what many have dubbed a heresy...


Guess who my scout sergeant is gonna be? A vial of combat drugs to he who does! (baronspikey, you're not included!). Here is his pic! It's attached to the message!

[Cagarner]

Lord solar macharius!!!!


mmmm, Combat Drugs.....

Originally Posted by Cagarner

Lord solar macharius!!!!


mmmm, Combat Drugs.....

Ok... You can have pink.. purple, and we still have some green and red left too.

Bits for Adonis have been decided (roughly).

Emperors Champion body, Anointed Daemonhammer, some ornate looking bolt pistol, swooping hawk exarch wings, company champion shield.

the hammer will be upraised much like the emperors champion sword, and the shield will be on his arm, with the pisol gripped in the hand. A secondary idea is to have the bolt pistol be holstered, the shield slung on his back, and the hammer gripped in a two handed grip. also, the 'winged' thing is just an idea, as I don't see any jet packs I really like for a commander, and Adonis has worked closely with an Eldar Craftworld before.

[r4wr89]

PICTURESSSSSS lol i really want to see how this turns out. with the amount of loving care and planning that go into your conversions, they should turn out great! and you have the "everything must be perfect!" syndrome [like me haha] so this will be cool.

man, i knew that was macharius too. haha if only i knew...next time, cag, i will answer before you ! haha i'm just kidding.

:]
-ant

Originally Posted by r4wr89

PICTURESSSSSS lol i really want to see how this turns out. with the amount of loving care and planning that go into your conversions, they should turn out great! and you have the "everything must be perfect!" syndrome [like me haha] so this will be cool.

man, i knew that was macharius too. haha if only i knew...next time, cag, i will answer before you ! haha i'm just kidding.

:]
-ant

Well, once rent is payed, it'll all be good and the marines will be on there way, and soon pics will be up, if I have the spare bits for the conversions.

Here are the finalized bits for my HQ's and armies.(mostly Adonis...). Still need to figure out how to do an adamantine mantle on Adonis.

Adonis:
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...0101&orignav=9
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...289&GameNav=10
(sword is being obtained for a veteran squad sargent possibly. )
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...ItemNav=302143
(Please don't attack my Commander having wings, Ambrose knows the vague reasons why, and they are good!).
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1722
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-0512 (this will go on Remus, the Epistolary too).


Remus:
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1732
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1733 (or default libby shoulder pad)
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1725 (I may, if I can't get someone to help with the Chapter Icon, use this for my Chapter Icon as well.)
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1719 (this may be used on 'vet sarges count as Termie honors, or may just be used as iconography. I was thinking of his force weapon having this on the hilt, around the skull on both sides.)
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...2602&orignav=9 (I may well use the extra sword arm from the Emperors Champion for adonis to make a more stately handle, then just wrap a laurel wreath around it, maybe a skull bit too?)
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1714 (possibly.. I would prefer a non-helmeted head with something reflecting his personality. Noble, yet with the hint of insanity in his face.)
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...7601&orignav=9
(will be using middle bit on him, maybe.
-He will be kneeling, as if in prayer, with sword tip down in base, head bowed and resting on the cross guard, both hands clasping hilt of sword. Broken chain at wrist and weapon, to represent fluff on him.



Antonius:
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1717 (for the top of his crozius)
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...3101&orignav=9 (may use this to represent vow).
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...1252&orignav=9
may try to get ahold of this one used, to use for body... I like the icons, etc.. But I also like the chains on the other Crozius... HELP! )

Tactical squads:
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1713 (it represents their pride in the weapons, yet i'm not sure.. too fancy you think?)
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1610 (may possibly cut off bolt pistols, for the silencer/suppressor and scope looking bit)


Various Veteran Sergeants/Veteran Squad:
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-1715
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/48-0736
http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/55-1228 (likely for veteran squads and Prelate Antonius, to reflect an officer in the Black Saints taking a vow to never relinquish their weapons but in death.)
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/s...1300&orignav=9
(I like the body on the left for the Veteran Sargents, etc... With some tabarding and such, it would look excellent.)



Thats all for now folks! More updates as the ideas come!

[Ides]

Well for Remus, you could go for the Ravenwing sergeant head.

http://www.battlewagon-bits.com/product/44-0822

Indeed... Not a half bad idea! I had forgotten the look of that particular head, thanks!

Here is the official look of the Black Saints, all battle worn and damaged. How does it look?

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...acksaints2.jpg
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...acksaints1.jpg

[r4wr89]

nice! although i have to say...the DoW simulator doesn't make the space marines look quite as sleek and cool looking as they are in the models...oh well. i do like it though :]
-ant

Originally Posted by r4wr89

nice! although i have to say...the DoW simulator doesn't make the space marines look quite as sleek and cool looking as they are in the models...oh well. i do like it though :]
-ant

Better than the GW online painter.

[r4wr89]

ah, i can't disagree with that :] haha. that thing is hideous :|

[Ides]

Hmmm, those links won't load for me...

[masterofweirdness]

Nice picts Erus... DoW Rocks so much.

This is inspiring me to pick up a paint brush... no... must resist...

[Ides]

Is the trim codex grey or boltgun metal?

Originally Posted by Ides

Is the trim codex grey or boltgun metal?

Intended to be boltgun metal or some other tarnished silver. It will have to wait until the paint test to see.

[Ides]

I use boltgun metal for the trim on my models, though I also use gold to pick out some details...

I think the metal could be hightlighted with a mix of boltgun metal and either mithril silver or dwarf bronze...

*twitches* Before I announce this, I would like to say it is all Steelegioncpt's fault. I am about to do something that borders on, nay proudly tramples on, the reverent Forgeworld models. I'm not talking about their shiny Space Marines. I'm talking of a resin, Dark Angels dreadnought. I will now display the parts I will be using..

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/davendread.htm
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog...SORIES_29.html

I will be filing off the chest iconography on both sides of the dread, as well as the Winged sword on the knee joint, and the sword from the (in picture the left) leg, to add in a skull. Likely, both chest pieces will have a winged (dual or single is yet up for debate) skull on the chest, with each skull I get from FW having a GS tear drop on the forehead to tie in the fact that they are a Blood Angels successor chapter.

Any further ideas will be posted up tomorrow when I have slept, and any suggestions or help are more than welcome!

[Ides]

I prefer the BT venerable dread...