1500 - Imperial Guard

[SpartanTau]

While searching through various forums and codexes looking for a possible second army, I had a small thought about a very elite force that hit hard and fast. What follows is what came out of those long thought sessions.

[I am not 100% on the Imperial Guard codex, so if this is illegal someone should please tell me as quickly as possible. I'm thinking that this army may be a side project for a summer or a semester.]

IMPERIAL GUARD 1500 POINTS

Doctrines: Restricted Troops - Storm Trooper Squads, Grenadiers, Mechanized, Carapace Armour

HQ - COMMAND PLATOON - 185 pts.
Senior Officer, 4 Guardsmen, Carapace Armour; Power Weapon, Meltagun, Chimera; Track Guards, Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter (hull)

ELITES - STORM TROOPERS - 146 pts.
Veteran Sergeant, 7 Storm Troopers; 2 Meltaguns, Meltabombs, Deep Strike

ELITES - STORM TROOPERS - 146 pts.
Veteran Sergeant, 7 Storm Troopers; 2 Meltaguns, Meltabombs, Deep Strike

TROOPS - GRENADIERS (STORM TROOPERS) - 215 pts.
Sergeant, 9 Storm Troopers; 2 Meltaguns, Chimera; Track Guards, Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter (hull)

TROOPS - GRENADIERS (STORM TROOPERS) - 215 pts.
Sergeant, 9 Storm Troopers; 2 Meltaguns, Chimera; Track Guards, Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter (hull)

TROOPS - GRENADIERS (STORM TROOPERS) - 215 pts.
Sergeant, 9 Storm Troopers; 2 Meltaguns, Chimera; Track Guards, Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter (hull)

FAST ATTACK - HELLHOUND - 125 pts.
Hellhound; Track Guards

FAST ATTACK - HELLHOUND - 125 pts.
Hellhound; Track Guards

FAST ATTACK - HELLHOUND - 125 pts.
Hellhound; Track Guards

TOTAL - 1497 pts.

This list is just a diversion from most Imperial Guard lists that I've come across, either by playing them or viewing the list online. The Chimera mounted squads move up alongside the Hellhounds, preferably in two spearheads, while the two drop squads come in behind enemy lines to take out hidden artillery or battletanks.

Looking back on the list, it kind of reminds me of Saving Private Ryan, although I don't rightly know why. Maybe I'm combining it with Band of Brothers...

I just have a few comments about this list:
- Is it legal? As I said at the beginning, I'm not 100% on how the Imperial Guard army works.
- Should my two drop teams be bumped down to seven total men (just for Deep Striking ease)?
- I don't want any heavy battletanks (Leman Russ, Basilisks, etc.), just beacuse they don't really fit with my idea of the rapid strike force.

All comments/suggestions are much appreciated.

[word bearers 81007]

well if you want to avoid russ and basiliks i would say i like. you seem to have enough troops that's always been my concern with guard armies can you survive a few turns of shooting you know. the only thing i would say about it is it appears to be a rapid fire range army and unfortunately guard are a little squishy for that but i do like the fluff idea behind it. it's just that kasrkins are expensive and to spend lots of cash on models that honestly will have a tough time winning isn't gonna be that fun.

[munkey joe paints]

Well looking at it quickly with no sleep.....it looks LEGAL.... your doctrines and troops match, your not over any slots, and your wargear seems legit. But i see them doing poorly as they have no support. 1500 pts and 50ish guys and 3 HH I dont see doing well, even in chimeras. you'll do ok for a few turns with the elite nature and armor upgrade, but i think youll have a toughy time!

of course Im a traditionalist and love loads of heavy weapons and tanks....

[r4wr89]

well...the first thing is, i'm only counting 4 doctrines. if i recall correctly, you can have five, so why not pick another one, just for kicks ? :] i think iron discipline would be good, even though the storm troopers have a decent leadership it's nice to have a backup around too. also, since it looks like grenadiers allows you to take storm troopers as normal [with the listed limitations, of course] the only reason you need mechanized is for your command squad, which can take it anyway, so you don't need to take that doctrine. so thus you have two free doctrine points ! :] if you get the chance, read through the ID doctrines part and see if there's something else in there that you like, maybe take restricted troops-enginseer also, so if you were to expand the army you could just add in an enginseer or two ? :]

for the tanks, i generally say that smoke launchers are a must. the track guards are nice, but they won't work for certain every time because they require a dice roll. extra armor and smoke launchers are both guaranteed to downgrade the damage dealt to them, even if they may not be hit by anything. Course, if you're running track guards on every tank as an army background/fluff thing, then i won't argue with it :] my army sacrifices a lot of firepower to be fluffy too, so i'd understand :]

:] just a few thoughts !
cheers ! and if it hasn't been said yet, welcome to the site !
-ant

[Sir_Servo]

Looks Good to me, have you thought of Sentinels instead of Hell hounds, they are part of a scounting/surgical strike in many Guard armies. Also sense you are taking the Carapcie armour Docterine, perhaps your Elites could become Harden Vets with Carpice Armour and a heavey weapon or two. You do get 5 docterines and sense you only used 4 you could easily take the docterine that allows you to remove the normal 0-1 on the vets squad.

My two cents,
Servo

[SpartanTau]

All great suggestions, and they are all very helpful for someone who hasn't really looked in-depth at Guard for very long.

Word Bearers 81007 :
For the cash concerns, I have heard a few rumors about plastic Storm Troopers with the Codex: Planetfall release, and I won't be looking to collect this army for some time. I still have around 600 points of Tau left, and that's before adding in some more Crisis suits. For the squishy-ness, aren't all humans? I really couldn't avoid it with Imperial Guard, but I will look into some close combat upgrades to help.

Munkey Joe Pants :
Yes, the scores of armored tanks was alluring, but I wanted to break away from what is normally viewed as an Imperial Guard army. I was concerned about the Doctrines and if I had to take an Infantry Platoon. Thanks for clearing that up.

r4wr89 :
Thanks for the help with the Doctrines and the vehicle upgrades. I hadn't realized some things that you mentioned, and I will definitely look into two more to fill it out. Excellent advice for the ones you mentioned, and I will look into those a little more closely.

Sir_Servo :
I had looked a Sentinels, but they seemed a little too fragile. I will take another look and consider dropping some Hellhounds for them. As for the Hardened Vets, I did want to make an all Storm Troopers list (or as close as I could), mostly because of the look of the models, but I will consider them.

Thanks again for all of the comments, and I will look at my list closely and consider changing things around.

[Sir_Servo]

I totally understand about the look of the Karskin Storm Trooper models they are freaking sweet. Nothing says you can't use them as your Hardened vets in Carpicace Armour. The conversion for the heavy weapons would freakin sweet as well.

Just my two cents,
Servo

[SpartanTau]

Sir_Servo :
That does sound like a good idea, especially since, as my list stands right now, I am at a lack of heavy weapons. I am leaning towards the Autocannon, so I assume that I would just keep the Veterans with lasguns? That will change, slightly, the way that my list is played, but I will do a little thinking on that matter.

Also, to respond again to your earlier post, I had another look at the Sentinels (what better do I have to do at 2:15 AM on a Monday?). If they are included in place of a Hellhound, I would probably go with Autocannons (to get more heavy weapons in). The only thing that I am now worried about would be scores of heavy tanks. In that case (assuming that the rest of my list stays the same), would you recommend Lascannons? Along with that, what upgrades would you recommend? I think that Armoured Crew Compartment is near the top of that list, but you may think otherwise...

[Sir_Servo]

I love my auto-cannons. Until recently I didn't use any lascannons at all. I fielded only Projectile weaponery (lasguns being the exception). Now that I picked up a good chunk of Steal Legion and have been playing more Appocolypse sized games I have been fielding more and more Lascannons. My friends love bringing super heavies to the field of battle and I equally love bearing down 9 lascannons from just one Heavy Weapons Platoon on them.

Sorry I had to go on a tangent there. I would say that for the Tournament scene Autocannons are the way to go. If you do come acrosse a Heavy Armoured opponent you have enough Meltas to cover your butt. The 2 shots at st. 7 are amazingly effective at not only anti-infantry, but they are vary effective at taking out transports as well.

My Luck tends to be on the poorer side of things, so I try and go for the war of attrition if I can. Force my opponent to make as many armour saves as possible is my philosophy. Screw this whole Big guns turn people into goo thing. I roll way to many ones for that. As soon as I get the enemy in my sights I just start blasting and do so until the cows come home.

That is my two cents,
Servo

[SpartanTau]

Sir_Servo :
I do the same thing with Missile Pods (which have the same stats as an Autocannon with a shorter range). I will keep those suggestions in mind, especially since I sort of have the tactics behind it already. I guess we are both similar in that respect, with the Law of Averages and Murphy's Law...

[experiment 626]

a) swap the storm trooper doctrine for hardened vets as they're godly for guard... 3 special weapon slots + power fist option for the sergeant and the ability to mix and match basic weapons! (i love my shotguns!)

b) drop mechanised as you don't need it for any reason; every unit you've taken already has the option for a chimera.

c) grab up iron discipline and turn your officer into a heroic senior officer for the all-important Ld9. think about adding in a vet w/company banner too as those re-rolls can be real life savers!

d) i'd drop 1 hellhound and take 2 single sentinel squads. (1 as your 3rd FA slot & 1 as part of your command platoon)
autocannons rule! they are the best weapon in the game for tackling skimmers, which is a big weakness for you right now.

e) switch-up the weapons a bit on your chimeras. IA gives you the option for a turret autocannon, while going all heavy bolters will help against anything not in power armour.
a heavy flamer or two will also discourage hoards and can be used in a pinch to reach out and nab any tau/eldar 'fish of fury' formations.

f) if the grenadiers are going to tank-hunt, then i'd drop them down to only 6 men without a vet sergeant. leave the hardened vets to fill the role of 10-man 'front line' squads as they can take that 3rd plasma gun + are better in assaults.
this will save you some pts for getting smokes & extra armour for all your vehicles + add on some pintle-stubbers for those veteran transports! (you really can't say no to 9 shots/turn!)

hope this helps,
cheers!

[SpartanTau]

Experiment 626 :
All very great suggestions. Let me start from the top.
a] I am considering adding some Hardened Veterans, but I would rather not completely replace the Storm Troopers with them. I may include a squad of them, especially as right now I have an extra Elite slot open.
b] I am dropping it. I didn't read the Command Squad entry close enough, which was the only unit that I "needed" Mechanized for.
c] The Leadership 9 does sound really good. I do have a question about the Company Banner: can unit still benefit from it if the unit carrying it is in a Chimera? Most of my army will be mounted up or (probably) too far away to benefit, so is still deemed good to take it?
d] Yes, Sentinels have been growing on me, and I am considering them. You have two Sentinels in two separate squads; is this better than just taking two as a unit in one Fast Attack slot?
e] Which Imperial Armour volume are those rules is? I will definitely consider it. Also, what turret and hull weapons come in the Chimera boxed set? I understand that this may be switched around with a change to the model line, but it's always good to know what's in there beforehand.
f] Good ideas, and I did just keep their numbers a little high to protect the Meltaguns after Deep Striking. I do need points for more end-loaded upgrades from my vehicles, and that definitely clears some up.

It did help, and thank you for giving so many good suggestions.

[word bearers 81007]

jsut so you know the problem with running the sentinels in one squad of two is if you layed into by lets say a havoc squad both sentinels can be effected. if you run them as 2 squads of 1 the opponent can only target 1 at a time. this gives some survivability to the poor armour 10 walker.

and yes the banner still functions in and around the transport that the unit is in.

[SpartanTau]

Word Bearers 81007 :
Thanks for the clarification on the banner. For the sentinels, I was thinking more about protecting victory points, but I do understand why two squads would be better, especially in the case that you mentioned.

[experiment 626]

check the FAQ on the GW site as IIRC, the banner *must* be on the table in order for units to benifit from it... (otherwise, if it's still beautifully ambiguous, then yes you could technically use it even if it is hiding in a chimera, as awkward and silly as it seems!)

i think you'll find that running carapaced vets is far superior to storm troopers in every way... against MEQ's, that possible 4th plasma weapon can equal total annihalation to smaller assaulty type squads like vets, termies, chosen and similar. (ie: 3 plasma guns + plasma pistol).
plus, the power fist alone is worth the swap. most marine players won't hesitate to throw their marines into your guard at the very first oppertunity. they'll start to cry once your sergeant kills a possible 4 marines/turn on 2's! and again, the vets can throw out a deceptive number of attacks as they can take that pistol + CCW combo - even T3 hoards like gaunts will falter to that.

the rules for the optional chimera turrets are in Imperial Armour vol.1
they include the autocannon, twin-linked heavy bolter & IIRC, multi-melta! (quite appropriate for a commissar's ride!)

cheers!

[Sir_Servo]

Seeing as how both Personal Icons for Chaos and Telport homers both use the edge of a troop transport when they are mounted in one so I would just let my opponent use the re-roll even if the unit is mounted in a chimera.

Just my two cents,
Servo

[SpartanTau]

Experiment 626 / Sir_Servo :
I was used to the Ethereal's Inspiring Presence, which, looking back, requires a line of sight to the actual model. Still looking at the Codex and my army list (as it stands), it does seem like a good choice to include one, especially my army won't stand up to much resistance...

Experiment 626 :
Good ideas for the upgrades, even if I do decide to keep the Storm Troopers. I was so used to Firewarrior squads with no upgrades that I completely forgot that basically every other army is completely different. Thanks also for the IA:1 cite for the Chimera turrets. I will give those a look shortly.