1500pt Space Wolves

[hairyyahoo]

Yo to you all

well, the codex books i've been waiting for have come in so i guess its about time i threw up a list. this'll be the first sw list i've done since 2nd ed so i'll be needing much advice.

let me remind you of the theme of this list. key words like sergical strike, competitive and rapid response should be remembered when giving feed back. transport for all squads is a must.

so without further ado...

HQ

wolf lord, sm bike, frost blade, wolf tooth neckless, belt of russ, melta bombs
170pts

rune priest, rune staff, power weapon, wolf pelt
123pts

ELITES

5 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, thunder hammer, wolf tooth neckless, wolf pelt
153pts

tank hunter pure and simple. the wolf guard with thunder hammer should do some damage. if they need to they can assult an enemy unit too.

also if i need to shave points this is where it'll happen. i could loose 1 scout and switch the melta bombs for a melta gun and save 24 pts for spending else where.

TROOPS

8 blood claws, krak grenades, 1 power weapon, 1 power fist,
1 wolf guard leader, power weapon, wolf pelt.
rhino, smoke luanchers, extra armour.
245pts

the rune priest will go here and use his psychic power to protect the blood claws until they can get into assult.

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

the grey hunters will find forwards firing positions and dig in. if they need to they'll jump on an objective. the razor back has a twin heavy bolter to supliment the units anti infantry fire power as this is lacking in the rest of the force

FAST ATTACK

5 blood claw bikes, 1 melta gun, 1 power fist
1 wolf guard leader, sm bike, power weapon.
230pts

surprisingly, this is where the wolf lord will go i'll be expecting this formation to quickly get up a flank and disrupt the enemies heavy guns, allowing the transports to get into position. they also have some anti tank capacity thanks to the power fist and melta

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

i've given these guys a weapons outfit to fulfill dual roles. firstly to pop armour with the melta and then hoard control with the flamer

1493pts

feed back and tactical advice mandato.... er, i mean..welcome.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

5 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, thunder hammer, wolf tooth neckless, wolf pelt
153pts

that should be a cool looking unit, especially the wolf guard. will you be using that new SM leader model with TH for him? if so, great! a bit of sprucing up with GS to get him looking a bit more wolfy will get him looking suitably wolfy

looks like a pretty cool list, though im no SW player. so best wait for their opinion.

will this be the truescale army?

[hairyyahoo]

Originally Posted by DeAd_cOmMaNdO

will this be the truescale army?

yep, this is the list that i'll be working to.

as for the scouts being a cool looking unit, oh hell yeah. but i won't be using the metal comander as i have something else up my hairy sleeve. i'll go into more detail on the other thread when the time comes.

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

Yo to you all

well, the codex books i've been waiting for have come in so i guess its about time i threw up a list. this'll be the first sw list i've done since 2nd ed so i'll be needing much advice.

let me remind you of the theme of this list. key words like sergical strike, competitive and rapid response should be remembered when giving feed back. transport for all squads is a must.

so without further ado...

HQ

wolf lord, sm bike, frost blade, wolf tooth neckless, belt of russ, melta bombs
170pts


rune priest, rune staff, power weapon, wolf pelt
123pts

ELITES

5 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, thunder hammer, wolf tooth neckless, wolf pelt
153pts

tank hunter pure and simple. the wolf guard with thunder hammer should do some damage. if they need to they can assult an enemy unit too.

also if i need to shave points this is where it'll happen. i could loose 1 scout and switch the melta bombs for a melta gun and save 24 pts for spending else where.

TROOPS

8 blood claws, krak grenades, 1 power weapon, 1 power fist,
1 wolf guard leader, power weapon, wolf pelt.
rhino, smoke luanchers, extra armour.
245pts

Drop the power weapon add power fist.

the rune priest will go here and use his psychic power to protect the blood claws until they can get into assult.

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

Swap to power fist

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

same with above.

the grey hunters will find forwards firing positions and dig in. if they need to they'll jump on an objective. the razor back has a twin heavy bolter to supliment the units anti infantry fire power as this is lacking in the rest of the force

FAST ATTACK

5 blood claw bikes, 1 melta gun, 1 power fist
1 wolf guard leader, sm bike, power weapon.
230pts

surprisingly, this is where the wolf lord will go i'll be expecting this formation to quickly get up a flank and disrupt the enemies heavy guns, allowing the transports to get into position. they also have some anti tank capacity thanks to the power fist and melta

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

i've given these guys a weapons outfit to fulfill dual roles. firstly to pop armour with the melta and then hoard control with the flamer

1493pts

feed back and tactical advice mandato.... er, i mean..welcome.

The howl has been heard. I will put the changes in red. Will help a bit l8er with my dex.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Y'know... It usually helps to give reason as to WHY you should change things, Erak. Half the reason of posting up a list for advice is to know the reasoning behind the proposed changes so you know where you went wrong.

That taken in light, you should always keep a good mix of p-weapon and fist. I find it is best usually not to mix, especially in wolfy lists. Usually if I draw one up I try to make on unit containing only p. weapons, other fists. That can be risky however, and the multi-tasking is not a bad thing. I like the list really. Shame there is no wolf priest (I'm a chaplain and apothecary fan, and the fact you can combine them just makes me a fan of the wolf priest.).

Only suggestion I have, and it is only for fluff, is to try and get your rune priest a rune weapon. Not a needed bit, but I like them in the unit. Usually draws a lot of fire. However, you want him to keep the unit he's attached to hidden, so either or it best. Perhaps paint or magnetize such things so it could be either or?

Also, i'm more of a fan of putting ass cans on my speeders. then again, looking at your set up, those will be pretty vicious for flanks. Just, with the relatively low rate of fire and range, you'll have to keep them out of heavy action zones.

Also, one bit I usually do is always give the tooth necklaces and pelts to each wolf guard who can take them. I am not sure if ya did or not. I would also go with a melta gun over the bombs. Purely personal there though.

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

Oh ok. Well the reason is for some reason I don't know why but I do it and every other wolf does it is you only put power fists in blood claws units. Then the power weapons in grey hunters.

Now I suggest you add melta bombs to your scouts as they are also there to destroy backup vehicles like basilisks or whirlwinds. Because unlike commander erus who prefers melta gun. Once you have shot you have to charge it so. Thats why melta bombs are better. If they have there support close together which they probably will. You can charge half on vehicle half on devastator type squads and still be able to harm the tank.

Also try and get rid of the wolf tooth knecklace on the wolf guard and wolf lord unless you are thinking of sending them in to destroy high ws monsters.

[experiment 626]

okay, let's see what madness i can bring?!

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

Yo to you all
let me remind you of the theme of this list. key words like sergical strike, competitive and rapid response should be remembered when giving feed back. transport for all squads is a must.

so without further ado...

HQ

wolf lord, sm bike, frost blade, wolf tooth neckless, belt of russ, melta bombs
170pts

+++ down-grade to a wolf guard battle leader;
a) cheaper
b) only 2 wounds means you can never give-up half VP's, unlike the 3W wolf lord...
c) IC's are never scoring units so in a competitive list, try and cut as many corners with them as possible!+++

rune priest, rune staff, power weapon, wolf pelt
123pts

+++ add-on a chooser of the slain. a terrific little piece of wargear for messing up your opponent's plans of say, trying to infiltrate their entire army?!!+++

ELITES

5 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, thunder hammer, wolf tooth neckless, wolf pelt
153pts
tank hunter pure and simple. the wolf guard with thunder hammer should do some damage. if they need to they can assult an enemy unit too.
also if i need to shave points this is where it'll happen. i could loose 1 scout and switch the melta bombs for a melta gun and save 24 pts for spending else where.

+++ lose the bombs for a meltagun... you'll need it against skimmers as trying to hit them on 6's is never a good thing.+++

TROOPS

8 blood claws, krak grenades, 1 power weapon, 1 power fist,
1 wolf guard leader, power weapon, wolf pelt.
rhino, smoke luanchers, extra armour.
245pts

the rune priest will go here and use his psychic power to protect the blood claws until they can get into assult.

+++ in that case, drop 1 blood claw for scoring unit purposes... as you're sinking alot of pts into IC's & dedicated transports, you need to maximise all of your actual scoring units.
(keep in mind for example that blood angel and especially dark angel armies will have oodles of scoring units thanks to the 'combat squads' rule!)+++

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

the grey hunters will find forwards firing positions and dig in. if they need to they'll jump on an objective. the razor back has a twin heavy bolter to supliment the units anti infantry fire power as this is lacking in the rest of the force

FAST ATTACK

5 blood claw bikes, 1 melta gun, 1 power fist
1 wolf guard leader, sm bike, power weapon.
230pts
surprisingly, this is where the wolf lord will go i'll be expecting this formation to quickly get up a flank and disrupt the enemies heavy guns, allowing the transports to get into position. they also have some anti tank capacity thanks to the power fist and melta

+++ i wouldn't give a meltagun to a BS3 model... just trust to the wolf guard's melta bombs and the squad's power fists to handel any big gribblies.
i'd leave the wolf guard's power toy though - he's got the slightly better WS to take more advantage of his I4. the blood claws should stick to power fists though - as many as you can take!+++

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts
i've given these guys a weapons outfit to fulfill dual roles. firstly to pop armour with the melta and then hoard control with the flamer

1493pts

feed back and tactical advice mandato.... er, i mean..welcome.

if possible, i'd try to add in a predator w/autocannon & heavy bolter sponsons. it's fairly cheap, and will help draw fire away from your transports & speeders... (considering that's 8, ap4 shots/turn!) plus, it can move 6"/turn an fire to full effect!

i think the main thing is going to be keeping your force together and attack a smaller portion of the enemy in one go. with such a low model count and few actual scoring units, you need to be careful about picking only the fights you can win hands down!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[hairyyahoo]

stitch! ya lil blue maniac, where you been? thought you didn't love us anymore.

anyhu,

erus: the rune priest originally had a pointy death stick but i swapped it out for the rune (psychic hood) staff so that i could lock down those eldar and nid armies that load up on psychic nastiness. the reason i went with a rune priest over a wolf priest is that the blood claws are gonna hafta spend one turn after unloading from the rhino with their asses in the breeze, and the benefits of effectively being in cover should help to keep them alive a bit longer.

stitch: some good tips but i can't touch the blood claws squad size other than to increase it, minimumsize is 8. the wolf guard leader comes from the elites section so i don't know how that pans out for scoring vp and such

loosing the bs 3 melta in the bikes pack is a smoothe move, but where to put the points? hmmm... i could just move the melta to the scouts unit, then we'd all be happy.

i'd like to have taken a pred but the points just weren't there. as you mentioned i'm blowing alot on ic's and transports so theres little i can do to shave the 100pts or so for the tank.


erak: you're a bit all over the place there dude. the scouts already have bombs. and why loose the necklesses? it improves the chances of hitting an enemy with the same ws from 1/2 to 2/3. much better odds if the lord comes face to face with an enemy character. i also have at least 1 power fist in all the units you mentioned.

so i'll mix things up a bit, changes in red

this is the list i'm rollin with

HQ

wolf lord, sm bike, frost blade, wolf tooth neckless, belt of russ, melta bombs
170pts

rune priest, rune staff, rune weapon, wolf pelt
148pts

swapped the power toy for a pointy death stick

ELITES

4 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, 1 melta gun and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, bolt pistol, thunder hammer, wolf pelt (lost the neckless)136pts

dropped from 5 to 4 and added a melta gun

TROOPS

8 blood claws, krak grenades, 1 power weapon, 1 power fist,
1 wolf guard leader, bolt pistol, power weapon, wolf pelt.
rhino, extra armour.
243pts



6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts



FAST ATTACK

5 blood claw bikes,1 power fist, 1 power weapon
1 wolf guard leader, sm bike, power weapon.
230pts

swapped melta gun for power toy (would have been a fist but i needed to shave 4 pts for the pointy death stick)

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

[

1500pts


happily this now comes in at exactly 1500 pts:

now what do ya think?

WOLFPACK! come on wolfy, these are yours if you come and have a look at my list.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Very effective list. I like it. Fits fluffy-ness, and works nicely. I usually play at higher points value than 1500, but for the value it's good. If you can, i'd suggest to expand this to 2K sometime on down the road. A squad of wolfguard termies kitted with heavy weapons and maybe an LR to roll up in, as well as a pred or dred would greatly help disperse the fire from enemy units. Great set up though.

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

Yeah good second update on he list. But I can not stress it enough to take the two power weapons in the grey hunters squad and two power fists in the blood claws squad.

For a reason I have no Idea we just do it ask any wolf he will tell you to max out on power fists in bloodclaw squads.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Lord Erak Grimnar

Yeah good second update on he list. But I can not stress it enough to take the two power weapons in the grey hunters squad and two power fists in the blood claws squad.

For a reason I have no Idea we just do it ask any wolf he will tell you to max out on power fists in bloodclaw squads.

But the question remains.. Is it worthwhile to sacrfice the points and effectiveness of other units, and lower the entire lists survivability? It may make one unit a nightmare, or two, but the problem is once those are gone, you're hanging on by your beard braids, so to speak. Just like with emperors children.. You always see people go hog wild on sonic weaponry, because they can and it makes a unit hard hitting as hell. However, a more balance approach to an Emperors Children army lists yields a force any player treats with care. Same with the space wolves.

Nice job hairy. I look forward to seeing these modeled. Especially that leader on a bike!

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

So you are saying my advice is wrong ok fine but have you asked a single wolf player yet?

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Lord Erak Grimnar

So you are saying my advice is wrong ok fine but have you asked a single wolf player yet?

Several. I'm NOT saying your advice is wrong. I'm saying there is an alternate way that may work better. Your list ideas would work, and work well. Just like the Sonic EC army. I have played multiple Space Wolves players, and have helped them many times update their lists, etc.. I may not play the army myself, but I know quite a bit about it from studying the Codex (Sun Tzu say to know your enemy), and playing against them repeatedly. You don't have to play an army to know it's strengths, weaknesses and ways to run it. As of yet, i've not really played a real game with Imperial SM, but most would agree I make a mean list.

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

Now that I hav the time for a full rework of the list will help you out.


HQ

wolf lord, sm bike, frost blade, wolf tooth neckless, belt of russ, melta bombs
170pts

rune priest, rune staff, rune weapon, wolf pelt
148pts

Good no guns that is excellent. As you will always be calling the phsycic power. Also when in transports try and call it on your valuable/vunerable transport.

ELITES

4 wolf scouts, bolt pistols, ccw, 1 melta gun and melta bombs.
1 wolf guard leader, thunder hammer, wolf pelt (lost the neckless)135pts

Good. Reasons I told you to drop the knecklace was because for there job "support disruption" I doubt there will be any high ws models

TROOPS

8 blood claws, krak grenades, 1 power weapon, 1 power fist,
1 wolf guard leader, power weapon, wolf pelt.
rhino, smoke luanchers, extra armour.
245pts

Take away the power weapon. Can't stress it enough with your grey hunters being small fire squads there not going to need to be hitting high at all. But these guys will be in the thick of it taking on high toughness models. As having the power weapon over the fist is bad as you want every one of there hits to most likely case a wound. But if you took the power weapon sure no armour saves.

But remember there ws3 and will be s4 when attacking. Yet however if you used a power fist would still be ws3 but s8 which most things won't be able use an armour save and if they did they would be above t4 so that s4 would be a lot harder to hit with than he st8.


6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

6 grey hunters, bolter, ccw, 1 plasma gun, 1 power fist
razorback, twin heavy bolters, smoke launchers, extra armour
211pts

Swap the one power fist for 1 power weapon asuming they will be close to each other.

FAST ATTACK

5 blood claw bikes,1 power fist, 1 power weapon
1 wolf guard leader, sm bike, power weapon.
230pts

Good

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

Good

land speeder tornado, multi melta, heavy flamer
75pts

Good


1499pts in total now.


Now on to tactics (just some extra help).

Now those land speeders are kitted out to harras the enemy flanks and take out armour. So I suggest keep them together and take out anyyting on the flanks or trying to take the objectives or transports.

Now the blood claws will go straight to the nearest combat threat or to enemy lines.

The two grey hunter units should be used to capture objective or for support fire for the bloodclaws as there role. Taking out anything that might kill the bloodclaws easily.

Rune priest should go with bloodclaws calling storm caller whenver he can on the unit thats about to be charged or charge.

Wolf lord is obviously going with the bikers. Which I suggest you sue to support the bloodclaws in combat.

On to the scouts. They will destroy any support firing troops/vehicles and if they survive will then be thereto capture objectives or to advance on the enemies rear.

Hope that helped. Any more questions just ask.

Now to celebrate in fenrisen way.

[Lord Erak Grimnar]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus.

Several. I'm NOT saying your advice is wrong. I'm saying there is an alternate way that may work better. Your list ideas would work, and work well. Just like the Sonic EC army. I have played multiple Space Wolves players, and have helped them many times update their lists, etc.. I may not play the army myself, but I know quite a bit about it from studying the Codex (Sun Tzu say to know your enemy), and playing against them repeatedly. You don't have to play an army to know it's strengths, weaknesses and ways to run it. As of yet, i've not really played a real game with Imperial SM, but most would agree I make a mean list.

guess I wasn't giving enough reason for the power fists read the army lists. Sorry about the hostility bit crazy. It's good to know your enemy but better to remember it combat. Which I can say my wolves compltly forgot when forced into an uneven battle and focused there fire on the pariahs instead of the warriors which would of fallen easier out of cover.

[experiment 626]

yes, i'm back! life, the weather & bell canada have all conspired against me as of late... but now i'm back and fluffier than ever! (i know, sounds a bit wrong but, i'm still cute!)

anyways, i'd drop the death stick back to a plain 'ol power toy... that should allow you to get a chooser of the slain.
you'll honestly love the little bird! imagine for a moment, the look on your opponent's face when he/she can no longer infiltrate their broodlord + retinue? or how you could destroy a traited marine army's battle plan when half their units must deploy normally?!!

besides, you may as well take advantage of it as the space wolves will be the next 'big 4' marine 'dex... (and i imagine the chooser will get the nerf stick as it is pretty damn powerfull - so enjoy it while you can!)

cheers!

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

yes, i'm back! life, the weather & bell canada have all conspired against me as of late... but now i'm back and fluffier than ever! (i know, sounds a bit wrong but, i'm still cute!)

anyways, i'd drop the death stick back to a plain 'ol power toy... that should allow you to get a chooser of the slain.
you'll honestly love the little bird! imagine for a moment, the look on your opponent's face when he/she can no longer infiltrate their broodlord + retinue? or how you could destroy a traited marine army's battle plan when half their units must deploy normally?!!

besides, you may as well take advantage of it as the space wolves will be the next 'big 4' marine 'dex... (and i imagine the chooser will get the nerf stick as it is pretty damn powerfull - so enjoy it while you can!)

cheers!

Is the chooser THAT expensive? I like the pointy death stick!