1500pts of daemon heavy chaos!

[experiment 626]

well, as the 'tactically minded' staffer at the local GW, (aka; the smart one!) i've been challenged to try my hand at a daemon-heavy force for this year's astronomi-con... so here it is; my themed list that makes heavy use of the troops most chaos generals have writen off as utter rubbish!
hopefully this will still be somewhat competitive while representing a word bearers-based daemonic assault; the few actual chaos marines using hoards of 'lesser' chaos creature as fodder while they gun down the surviving enemy!


Angels of Origin Daemonic Assault Force

HQ: The Dark Prophet; Chaplain Akhenaten, Dark Apostle (Chaos Sorcerer) w/Bolt pistol, Accursed Crozius (Force weapon + Mark of Tzeentch), Frag & Krak grenades, Personal icon.
Psychic powers; Infernal Blessings (as Warptime).
cost; 160 pts

Elites: The Angelica Mortis; 6 Possessed Word Bearers.
Radiance of Dark Glory, (as Icon of Slaanesh)
cost; 176 pts
Transport; ‘Light of Truth’, Chaos Rhino w/Twin-linked bolter, Smoke launchers, Searchlight.
cost; 35 pts

Troops: Squad Puritas; 1 Chaos marine w/Icon of Chaos Glory, Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
1 Chaos marine w/Flamer, Bolt pistol, CCW.
4 Chaos marines w/Bolter, bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 105 pts

Troops: Squad Deliverance; 1 Chaos marine w/Icon of Chaos Glory, Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
1 Chaos marine w/Flamer, Bolt pistol, CCW.
4 Chaos marines w/Bolter, bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 105 pts

Troops: Children of Chaos; 8 Lesser Daemons
cost; 104 pts

Troops: The Heralds of Nurgle; 7 Lesser Daemons
cost; 91 pts

Troops: The Denziens of the Outerdark; 6 Lesser Daemons
cost; 78 pts

Fast Attack: The Fallen; 3 Chaos Spawn
cost; 120 pts

Fast Attack: The Hallowed Ones; 3 Chaos Spawn
cost; 120 pts

Heavy Support: Squad Cerberus; 3 Havocs w/Lascannons, Bolt pistol, CCW.
3 Havocs w/Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 195 pts

Heavy Support: Squad Purgatus; 4 Havocs w/Autocannons, Bolt pistol, CCW.
4 Havocs w/Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 200 pts

cheers!

[Drax]

given your mandate, there isn't much room for maneuvre, but what concerns me is that you are starting off the battle with very few marine models on the board.

because of the size of those squads, an opponent with lucky torrent of fire results could stop you getting all of the daemon units into play.

you could perhaps do with dropping 1 spawn from each squad to get a couple more marines on the table, but it isn't a bad list otherwise

[experiment 626]

well, against really shooty armies like tau, the plan will be to deploy out of sight - even if that means starting on my friggin' table edge! just plow through cover and wait for the daemons...
i'm sitting with about 4 icons - one of which can simply dash-off 12" towards the enemy!

still, i'm betting i'll get at least one game were there's no terrain and i'm staring at a tau or guard gunline!

i also can't take away spwan as it screws up their unit formation... they must be deployed in as few units as possible so i'd end up something like a unit of 3 and then a unit of only 1 or 2...

i do still have 11pts left over, so i'm kinda debating wether or not i should give say a flamer to my 1st havoc squad? (the one w/3 lascannons) just to give them a bit more crowd control against say enemy infiltrators and/or deep strikers...
i've left off the plasma from all my squads so i can keep mobile; shoot ---> assault!

cheers!

[Drax]

you are mis-interpreting the spawn wording. yes they must be in as few units as possible, but if you have 4 spawn total, either way you are going to have 2 units. Whether you have one unit of 3 and another unit of 1 or you go with two units of two is up to you.

as for the havocs, why not go with missile launchers if you want horde crowd control where necessary? that way it is cheaper over all and although you would still need to divert attention away from armour to deal with the critters, at least you will have 3/4 useful weapons rather than one useful weapon and 2/3 overkill weapons.

i still think your CSM squads are too small to be effective though

[Dragoon King]

Brave girl! To the death!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Celephus Drax

you are mis-interpreting the spawn wording. yes they must be in as few units as possible, but if you have 4 spawn total, either way you are going to have 2 units. Whether you have one unit of 3 and another unit of 1 or you go with two units of two is up to you.

d'oh! yes, i could do 2 & 2... but i really have a soft spot for all things gribbly!

Originally Posted by Celephus Drax

as for the havocs, why not go with missile launchers if you want horde crowd control where necessary? that way it is cheaper over all and although you would still need to divert attention away from armour to deal with the critters, at least you will have 3/4 useful weapons rather than one useful weapon and 2/3 overkill weapons.

i still think your CSM squads are too small to be effective though

hmmmmm... S8 ap3 has done me well in the past... and that's 30 more pts?! i might try that - 3x rocket launchers + plasma gun. (i'm planning to model this unit as a renegade long fangs pack who have thrown off the shackles of blind dogma in order to follow the true path to enlightenment!)

the smallness of the chaos marine squads is also a background thing; the word bearers were never that large of a legion. they made use of hundreds of thousands of lesser 'auxilleries' comprised of those humans they rallied to their cause. they'd use these lesser troops as fodder while the few actual marines stayed back for the most part and did their work with bolt shell & flame!
so now they use daemons as expendable shock troops while they gun down the pitiful survivors!

oh well, looks like a wee bit more tinkering!

cheers!

[SteveBerenyi]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

(i'm planning to model this unit as a renegade long fangs pack who have thrown off the shackles of blind dogma in order to follow the true path to enlightenment!)

That should put wolfie and hairy on edge! I demand pictures! PPPKHH!!!

[Drax]

i understand your reasons on the background stitch, but these are my concerns:

you have 4 units with which to bring in the bulk of your army. 1 is an IC. one round of combat before you get the daemons coming in and that could be one chance gone.

the other 3 icons are in squads of 6 men.

the possessed squad in the rhino could find themselves in the same boat as the IC very quickly if they are the only squad up to the enemy in turn 2.

shooting/combat wise for all squads your opponent only needs to cause 3 wounds and he gets 50% casualties. furthermore if the unit breaks, because they don't have ATSKNF, they keep running. if that happens in a situation where your opponent gets turn 1 and has enough fire power, you could be starting your first turn with just your spawn on the field with little or no chance of bringing on the rest of your army.

i know you are basing this on the assumption you will have cover available, but you know as well as i that you shouldn't base lists on hopes and dreams

also, back to the fluff - two full 10 man squads is still reletively few chaos marines so that wouldn't be too damaging to the background

[Dragoon King]

Hmmm. No Greater Daemon? Maybe replace one of the Spawn squads...

[experiment 626]

well, for this tournament i'm going to in may i can place a decent deal of faith in having plenty of cover... we only have a few senarios where the terrain is sparse - roughly 1/3rd of the tables for example are cities of death! we also have a swamp table, a few jungle fights & the majority have a good 5-6 area terrain peices scattered about.
also, i need to suffer 4 casulties on my 6-man squads before they leg it for good... plus with Ld9/8 & re-roll ability from the icon, i'm pretty confident that i won't be running much! (i'll fail target priority tests 9 times out of 10 though for sure!)

still, i'm planning to do a bit more tinkering as i likely will swap out those lascannons for rocket launchers and get a few more men on the board...
my sorcerer will also likely join-up with one of the chaos marine squads - or simply run slightly behind them so he can't be picked out by enemy shooting.

while a greater daemon would be nifty, i can't see how i'd get the pts while keeping the mandetory 6 spawn in the list! (ie: i want to use most of a tide of spawn box!)

cheers!
p.s. hairy, wolfie cry over traitor wolves??? very well then - chaos space puppies are definately a go!lol!

[Dragoon King]

You and yer love of gibbering spawn, lol. Good luck in the tourney!

[Drax]

Your quite right Stitch, my apologies. 3 casualties takes you to 50%, not below it. But:

As I said before, in a unit of 6, torrent of fire will be fairly easy to achieve for your opponent and whilst you still get a 3+ save, if I manage to make it work, the model I will be targeting is that icon. There goes your re-roll and your ability to summon daemons with that unit.

Also, once you take 4 casualties you are looking at a –1 to break tests (-2 if in combat) so even with a re-roll, you could still struggle.

I know I keep harping on about this, and chances are you won’t find yourself in a situation where it matters, but I just thought I should point it out.

[experiment 626]

no worries drax! it's exactly what i need when designing lists; point out the biggest & most glaring weaknesses!

anyways, i've done alot of tinkerin' with the list! so i've really tonned down the sorcerer into just a plain 'ol lord who will simply add a bit of close quarters killiness to the army & muddled with a unit of chaos marines... with the pts saved, i've added more bodies to the list, (okay more daemons!) including a small unit of termies who can make a surgical strike!
so, the big question; would you think this a fun army to play with/against and does it stand a chance of winning??! i know it's still a somewhat easy to go after the icons, but i only need to hold out for roughly 3 turns before the gribbly goodness arrives! (keep in mind most missions in this tournament allow turn 1 reserve rolls on a 5+!)


Angels of Origin Daemonic Assault Force

HQ: The Dark Prophet; Chaplain Akhenaten, Dark Apostle (Chaos Lord) w/Bolt pistol, Accursed Crozius (Power weapon + Mark of Tzeentch), Frag & Krak grenades, Personal icon.
cost; 125 pts

Elites: Squad Hades; 1 Chaos Terminator w/Heavy flamer & Chainfist
2 Chaos Terminators w/Twin-linked bolter, Power weapon.
cost; 110 pts

Elites: The Angelica Mortis; 6 Possessed Word Bearers.
Radiance of Dark Glory, (as Icon of Slaanesh)
cost; 176 pts
Transport; ‘Light of Truth’, Chaos Rhino w/Twin-linked bolter, Smoke launchers, Searchlight.
cost; 35 pts

Troops: Squad Puritas; 1 Chaos marine w/Icon of Chaos Glory, Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
1 Chaos marine w/Flamer, Bolt pistol, CCW.
4 Chaos marines w/Bolter, bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 105 pts

Troops: Squad Deliverance; 5 Chaos marines w/, Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 75 pts
*** dark apostle goes here***

Troops: Children of Chaos; 10 Lesser Daemons
cost; 130 pts

Troops: The Heralds of Nurgle; 7 Lesser Daemons
cost; 91 pts

Troops: The Sirens; 6 Lesser Daemons
cost; 78 pts

Fast Attack: The Fallen; 3 Chaos Spawn
cost; 120 pts

Fast Attack: The Hallowed Ones; 3 Chaos Spawn
cost; 120 pts

Heavy Support: Squad Cerberus; 3 Havocs w/Missle launchers, Bolt pistol, CCW.
2 Havocs w/Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 135 pts
*** will be modeled as a unit of renegade long fangs who've decided to follow the true path to ultiment enlightenment!***

Heavy Support: Squad Purgatus; 4 Havocs w/Autocannons, Bolt pistol, CCW.
4 Havocs w/Bolter, Bolt pistol, CCW.
cost; 200 pts

list is now 1500pts bang on!
cheers!

[Dragoon King]

Squad Purgatus. A viable option would be to replace them with 2 Preds, with 60 points left over for upgrades or more Daemons.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Squad Purgatus. A viable option would be to replace them with 2 Preds, with 60 points left over for upgrades or more Daemons.

i still thing that the 8 marines are overall much harder to deal with - especially if/when they get to deploy in some nice solid cover!

my main dislike for vehicles is that they're so very easy to render useless with a single jammy glancing hit each turn! (at the very least getting a shaken result and thus not being able to shoot for a whole turn!)
plus, i'm expecting to face lots of skimmers as there will be plenty of eldar & tau players as usually appear. autocannons are stitistically the game's best weapon for dealing with those buggers! thus, 8 shots should at least ensure a glancing hit or two each turn...

cheers!

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

i still thing that the 8 marines are overall much harder to deal with - especially if/when they get to deploy in some nice solid cover!

my main dislike for vehicles is that they're so very easy to render useless with a single jammy glancing hit each turn! (at the very least getting a shaken result and thus not being able to shoot for a whole turn!)
plus, i'm expecting to face lots of skimmers as there will be plenty of eldar & tau players as usually appear. autocannons are stitistically the game's best weapon for dealing with those buggers! thus, 8 shots should at least ensure a glancing hit or two each turn...

cheers!

Yeah, I seen many vehicles killed by glancing hits. So Autocannons are effective against, say, Landspeeders?

[Petey1016]

Originally Posted by Celephus Drax

you are mis-interpreting the spawn wording. yes they must be in as few units as possible, but if you have 4 spawn total, either way you are going to have 2 units. Whether you have one unit of 3 and another unit of 1 or you go with two units of two is up to you.

just to clear this up it MUST be as FEW units as possible, its probably better worded as "as little/least amount of units as possible" so stitch you were right. If you have 4 spawn the least amount of units or as few as possible is 1 squad of 3 and a squad of 1. The other way around would mean break another mentioned thing in the codex or something like it that you have to fill the units first so 2 units of 2 is impossible.It sucks but it is thy rules, Edumacation Learn me a book.

The list looks like it could be great fun, i always enjoyed playing against a DemonBomb army just because of the amounts of demons to kill. may i suggest having equal units of lesser demons e.g. one unit of 9 and two units of 7. Havocs with autocannons absolute bane of all horde type armies genius, overall i think this list is good.

[Drax]

Originally Posted by Petey1016

If you have 4 spawn the least amount of units or as few as possible is 1 squad of 3 and a squad of 1. The other way around would mean break another mentioned thing in the codex or something like it that you have to fill the units first so 2 units of 2 is impossible.It sucks but it is thy rules, Edumacation Learn me a book.

how did you arrive at that conclusion? if there are 4 spawns total, the smallest number of units you could possibly manage is 2 units. how you split the spawn doesn't matter. admittedly 4 spawn is the only time this works, but it does work.

i think you are taking your example from applying wounds to multi wound models, however this is a totally different situation and as such one has no bearing on the wording of another

[Petey1016]

okay i concede my bad just read book, im miffed at that. ah well love the demonbomb.

[experiment 626]

the wording on that spawn entry is indeed pretty bad! (thank-you yet again gav 'who needs clearly writen rules' thorpe!)

my daemon units are numbered according to sacred numbers actually! so i have a unit of undivided daemons, 1 unit of nurgle daemons & 1 unit of slaaneshii daemons... sure the unit sizes for those last two units suck - but i can't roll dice to save my life so i'm fethed anyways!

well, i'll be picking up my tide of spawn box today! (woo-hoo!) so i think i'll leave the list as is for now and see how a few play-tests go... (or more likely, don't go!lol.)

thanks for all the help lads!
cheers!

[Dragoon King]

Good luck Stitch, may many foes fall before the power of Chaos!