all-lucky7777 vs Sir_Servo

[SteveBerenyi]

Da Deffwing Vs The Tzeechian Horde

Board 6'x6'

Special Rules:
Craters Block Line of Sight to what is IN them but not past them
Rocks: Area Terrain Size 2
Forest: Area Terrain Size 3

Victory Points, Deep Strike, Infiltrate, Escalation <<<<< That is right , Variable Turn Limit (8)

Mission: Seek and Destroy!




All Lucky 7777's Deffwing:

2500 Pts - Orks Roster - Unnamed

Warboss Dethdakka Wozznokkit
HQ: Mega-armoured Warboss (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Mega-armoured Warboss @ 130 Pts
Power Klaw; Twin Linked Shoota (x1); Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Mega Armour

HQ: Mega-armoured Big Mek (1#, 105 Pts)
1 Mega-armoured Big Mek @ 105 Pts
Power Klaw; Twin Linked Shoota (x1); Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Grot Oiler (x3); Mega Armour; Mek's Tools

Troops: Meganobz (11#, 570 Pts)
10 Meganobz @ 570 Pts
Count as Troop Troops; Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x3); Twin Linked Shoota (x7); Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Mega Armour
1 Battlewagon @ [155] Pts
Big Shoota (x4); Lobba; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger

Elite: Meganobz (11#, 570 Pts)
10 Meganobz @ 570 Pts
Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x3); Twin Linked Shoota (x7); Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Mega Armour
1 Battlewagon @ [155] Pts
Big Shoota (x4); Lobba; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger

Heavy Support: Killer Kans (3#, 165 Pts)
3 Killer Kans @ 165 Pts
Dreadnought CCW; Kustom Mega-Blasta (x3)

Troops: Deff Dread (1#, 110 Pts)
1 Deff Dread @ 110 Pts
Count as Troops; Dreadnought CCW (x2); Dreadnought CCW (x1); Kustom Mega-Blasta (x1); Grot Rigger

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 260 Pts)
1 Battlewagon @ 260 Pts
Rokkit Launcha (x4); Zzap Gun; Killkannon; 'Ard Case; Boarding Plank; Deff Rolla; Grot Rigger; Wreckin' Ball
This is the Warboss's personal transport.

Elite: Meganobz (6#, 270 Pts)
5 Meganobz @ 270 Pts
Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x2); Twin Linked Shoota (x3); Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Mega Armour
1 Trukk @ [60] Pts
Big Shoota (x1); Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job; Wreckin' Ball
This is the Big Mek's Personal Transport/Retinue

Elite: Meganobz (5#, 210 Pts)
5 Meganobz @ 210 Pts
Power Klaw; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon (x2); Twin Linked Shoota (x3); Stikkbombs; Furious Charge; Mob Rule; Waaagh!; Mega Armour
This is the Warboss's Personal Retinue

Heavy Support: Deff Dread (1#, 110 Pts)
1 Deff Dread @ 110 Pts
Dreadnought CCW (x2); Dreadnought CCW (x1); Kustom Mega-Blasta (x1); Grot Rigger

Total Roster Cost: 2500

================================================== ========

Sir_Servo's Tzeechian Horde:

HQ:

Greater Daemon - Monstrous Creature = 100 pts. (doesn’t take up an HQ slot)

Daemon Prince - Wings, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime, Doom bolt = 185

Chaos Lord - Mark of Tzeentch, Daemon Weapon, Wings = 160

Total = 450


Elites:

7x Chosen - Infiltrate, 2x Meltagun, 2xlightning claws = 186

7x Chosen - Infiltrate, 2x Meltagun, 2xlightning claws = 186

Total = 372


Troops:

10x Chaos Space Marines - Aspiring Champion, 2x Flamer = 175
Rhino - Smoke Launchers, Search Light, Twin-Linked Bolters = 35

10x Chaos Space Marines - Aspiring Champion, 2x Flamer = 175
Rhino - Smoke Launchers, Search Light, Twin-Linked Bolters = 35

9x Thousand Sons - Inferno Bolts = 207
1x Aspiring Sorcerer - Doombolt = 70
Rhino - Smoke Launchers, Search Light, Twin-Linked Bolters = 35

9x Thousand Sons - Inferno Bolts = 207
1x Aspiring Sorcerer - Doombolt = 70
Rhino - Smoke Launchers, Search Light, Twin-Linked Bolters = 35


Total = 1044


Fast Attack :

6x Raptors - Aspiring Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, 2x Meltaguns = 165

6x Raptors - Aspiring Champion, Icon of Chaos Glory, 2x Meltaguns = 165

Total = 330


Heavy Support:

Chaos Defiler - Two Dreadnought CCW, Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, Daemonic Possession, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight = 150

Chaos Defiler - Two Dreadnought CCW, Battle Cannon, Reaper Autocannon, Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, Daemonic Possession, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight = 150

Total = 300

Army Total = 2496

Good luck to both parties, voting is open til April 28.
Please remember to explain your vote and put it in a DIFFERENT COLOR

[Sir_Servo]

WOW!!!! Look at all those tin kanz I get to open up!

Well I will have to study this list a bit and then post my tactics at a later point.

Good Luck Lucky.

Servo

[BrainDeleted]

I'll wait for tactics...

Leaning towards Tzeetch because he has many more men and some nice fire power. And if a Nobz squad gets stuck in combat with a cult squad of Tzeetch...it could take awhile...

[Warmaster Romulas]

very interesting
cant wait for tactics

[Sir_Servo]

By the Way any chance we can know what deployment zone we are in? It won't make that much difference, except for my deployment.

Thanks,
Servo

+++EDIT+++
PS: oh and do the craters count as Difficult Terrain? And are the Rocks Impassible?

[Sir_Servo]

OK Tactics Round 1:

Now I don't have the Ork book in front of my so I will do the best I can with what I got. I may refine these after I have a look at the dex, but I doubt it.

Deployment:


Simple, if I understand escilation correctally than I start with infiltrating Chosen and he gets his Warboss with 5 retinue and his Big Mek! I will assume that the Big Mek will be joining his Warboss.

I will put my 2 squads of Choesen in the Forest edge and then Wait for his HQ squad. Unless they are un-Orky or to scared to come find me! Once they venture to close than I will hit him with 4 meltas and 4 sets of Lightning Claws.

If for some reason the Big Mek doen't join the HQ squad then I will place one of the Chosen squads in a place to hunt him down and be rid of the little bugger!


After the First turn I should get 5 squads for Reserves, compared to Lucky's 3 squds. (10 units in reserve and they come on with a 4+) One of my two defilers, one squad of Regular CSM in Rhino, One of my 1ks Squads, one of my HQs, and one unit of Raptors. They will all move as quickly as they can towards the enemy. Deiler will set up as a fire base in between the rocks and Forest on the left side of the feild.

*Rember that the Raptor squads get a free re-roll at the Ld of the IC that joins them!

Rhinos will pop smoke after first turn of full movement and then move and unload there pay load on the second move. 1kSons will open up after disembarking. Hurray for slow and purposeful. Raptors will start to hunt the big nasty Battlewagons.

Rest of my army will trickle onto the board and be deployed on what ever side needs them. Once the Greater Deamon becomes available than he will pop up as close to an enemy squad/battlewagon as he can and start laying the smack down!

Escilation is rather difficult for me to write tactics for. That whole not knowing witch units are ariving when, but this is how I see it.

Between the Melta Guns, Mosterous Creaters (including DP and Greater Daemon), and Defilers I should have little to no problems getting rid of those pesky transports and then with the combined curtain of fire that the Slow and purposefull 1k sons can lay down backed by 2 defilers I can't see the orks winning this one. He just didn't bring enough troops!

On top of that most of his squads just need to take a few causualties before they are taking moral checks on Ld. 7! Run little Orkies RUN!!!!

My tactics for your discusion (I am sure I will be putting in my two cents here and there through out this battle as well so stay tuned)

Servo

[Dragoon King]

Tzeentch. Not because I'm partial to Chaos, either! When I seen Servo's list, I thought to myself "Holy cow, there is a great Tzeentch list, and it even has CC power". I might have given the nod to the Orks, but those Defilers, DP, and Greater Daemon pack a lot of whallop, and 18 1k Sons will be hard to kill. It's a very well rounded list, he has shooting, anti-tank, and CC ability. Not sure about the LC in the Chosen, but hey, that only boosts his CC ability. Great list, Servo, I don't think the Orks will be able to handle it.

[SteveBerenyi]

area terrain = difficult for forest, dangerous for rocks.

no count on craters.

All-Lucky7777 Deploys in DZ1
Servo in DZ2

[Warmaster Romulas]

i vote choas
i think in a regular fight the orks would win a very close match
but because of escalation
the Waaagh will not be able to bring any strength to bear at any one time

[BrainDeleted]

Waiting on Lucky's tactics, leaning towards chaos.

[all-lucky7777]

Whoa, I had no Idea we had even started. I thought Steve would send me a PM.

The Big Mek is in the unit with the normal Trukk.

I don't care who you bring to the party, Servo, you won't beat me in CC. Each nob has 2 wounds at 4 toughness and a 2+ save, and I have 3 Str 8 (9 if I charge you)powerfist attacks and equivalent weapon skill. The only things in that list that will e killing enough of them is the Defilers. And those I'll have to take down carefully. But I bet you've never tried to kill Terminators with a Battle Cannon, it don't work. They tend to not die. So the defilers are a little less useful at range (they still kill Nobz outright should I fail a save)

Your missing the amount of Plasma I have on my dreads and the fact that the Kans are BS3 (crewed by grots). If I was to get my two deff dreads into combat they will be making the Thousand Sons take a LOT of invul saves. (granted that might take a little while) And the Wagon with the 'Ard Case has a Killcannon, which is a shorter ranged Battle Cannon, so It will destroy a whole squad once or twice during the game, give or take a few marines. (due to the ap3)

I'm not bailing from my battlewagonz until I get close enough to assualt. Due to the fact that My Nobz are slow and purposeful, that could be an issue should I lose a wagon. But the only thing I see in Servos army list that can kill tanks is a total of 8 meltaguns and Defiler CC attacks. If the Raptors/Chosen pop a BattleWagon then they will force the orks within to be wounded on a 4+, which they will save on a 2+, and if they fail both they will still have a wound left. Then the Raptors/Chosen become dead Raptors/Chosen. Again, I get three Power Klaw attacks a guy, even a 9 man squad of Nobz would simply obliterate them.

Shooting is a little more difficult for me, but I have BS3 Mega Blastas on the Kans and any Nob with a plain kombi-shoota has it twin linked. The Kombi Skorchas are a one use heavy flamer, so they auto hit and wound a marine on a 3+. If I unload a few of those before charging it should thin the ranks a bit. As expected, Tzeentch should be able to kick the crap out of me in the shooty phase, but he seems to have a lot of bolters and flamers and such. SO I'm not very threatened.

Another thought- I might have a hard time getting anywhere but I feel the Chaos is going to come to me. The exception is my Big Mek and bodyguard which is going to hurtle 25" towards the enemy on first turn, then move 13" on the second and hopefully get to grips with the enemy. This is due to the trukk being easy to destroy.

I can fire all 7 combi shoota shots (Twin Linked, Str 4) out of each of the open topped Battlewagons (plus 3 Non-TL ones) and each comes with 12 big shoota shots (Str 5) and 1 Lobba shot (blast template, Str 5). Thats a lot of firepower! If you are already using your armor save and its not enough, then what good are invul saves anyway? The Battlewagons have the armor of a Leman Russ, so until late game when the armies begin to meet, Chaos will be dealing with FA 14 most of the time. And none of his ranged weapons will be able to damage it except obviously the meltaguns. And finally, those two wagonz are equipped with a Deffrolla which allows me to seriously hurt infantry in a Tank Shock! Plus I can reroll dangerous terrain tests.

I'll have to think about actual tactics in a minute, thats all just stats.
-Lucky

[Sir_Servo]

Some good tactics there Lucky, if this were a normal game, but this is escilation! You start with just your Big Mek, your Warboss, and the 5 Mega Nobs that go with your Warboss.

The rest of your army either has Dedicated Transports or is a vehicle/dread so they all start off the table in reserve.

As I stated in my tactics I will simpily wait for you to come to me with my Chosen and then blast you with Meltas. That should be 2-3 dead nobs in one shooting phase then assault and that should be another 2-3 dead (yes I am counting on your 2 wounds each) from 4 lightning claws that ignore your armour, re-roll wounds, and have 3 attacks ont he charge.

After your warboss and his squad are dead then I just wait for the rest of your units to trickle on to the field. I have more units than you do so I will get more each turn and attrition just wins out. You must keep in mind that both my Lord and Daemon Prince are with the raptors and they are no slouches in Close Combat. One is monsterous creature and the other has 3 attacks base, +D6 attacks each round, all of witch count as power weapons.

On top of that I have my Greater Deamon, yet another Monstrous Creature. That can pop up where I need him due to all the Aspiring Champions that I have scattered through out the army.

If this was a normal battle with out escilation rules than I would be singing a whole different tune, but as it stands I win if nothing else than by numbers alone.

Servo

[Brother Warchild]

I think i am leaning towards Chaos on this one but for now i am gonna have to hold my vote off for a day or so.

[all-lucky7777]

Well Thats the last time I bring a theme army here... At least without laying down some ground rules.

How do you intend to cope when my army DOES trickle (more like thunder) on to the field? Each squad of meganobs is more than any individual thing in your army can handle by itself, even at shooting. Again, its either a twin-linked (equivelent to about 3.5 Ballistic Skill) shoota or a Skorcha, which is a heavy flamer that doesn't care whats shooting it. I don't see the 2 squads of Tzeentch and two squads of normal CSM making any impact on this battle at all. They can't kill me be it Shooting or CC, and they will die when I assault. When (not if) I reach your lines you won't last. So I can pretty much ignore your Troops.

Your raptors are a force to be reckoned with though, so I think I'll merely keep my distance and shoot the hell out of them when my battlewagons arrive as well as what nobs can shoot them. I out range you with any one of my wagons/dreads, so no problem there. Same with the chosen. Lightning Claws and meltas only get you so far when I'm 24-30" away! And If all I kill is your Chosen and raptors then I'd be winning by at least 500 points! Un-orky My A**. We can alwayz come back for annuver go, see? Sides, theres always those Troops Choices to fight...

[Sir_Servo]

You are not the only ones with mobility all my troops are mounted in Rhinos so getting up close and personal with you is no problem. And the 20+ shots that each one can unleash is going to equal dead orks. I don't care if you have decent armour save, that many shots coming at you means that you will die. When I take out your transports with either raptors, Defilers, or DP then you have to move as if you are difficult terrain. Yes my 1ksons due as well, but they have rhinos. You didn't bring nearly enough anti-tank stuffs to kill my transports.

Sorry but I still think numbers will win the day I will be constantly out numbering an ORK army! not to mention that if I get with in Rapid Fire range there is no gaurentee that you will be able to assualt me. In Fact as long as I am not dumb about where I drop my troops off, you should never get the charge. Me on the other hand I have mobility and speed and can choose when and where to make my assualts.

Servo

(God this would be an awomse battle to actually fight out. If you ever find yourself in MN Lucky than bring this list and we will have to throw down! Good Luck)

[all-lucky7777]

Originally Posted by Sir_Servo

You are not the only ones with mobility all my troops are mounted in Rhinos so getting up close and personal with you is no problem. And the 20+ shots that each one can unleash is going to equal dead orks. I don't care if you have decent armour save, that many shots coming at you means that you will die. When I take out your transports with either raptors, Defilers, or DP then you have to move as if you are difficult terrain. Yes my 1ksons due as well, but they have rhinos. You didn't bring nearly enough anti-tank stuffs to kill my transports.

Sorry but I still think numbers will win the day I will be constantly out numbering an ORK army! not to mention that if I get with in Rapid Fire range there is no gaurentee that you will be able to assualt me. In Fact as long as I am not dumb about where I drop my troops off, you should never get the charge. Me on the other hand I have mobility and speed and can choose when and where to make my assualts.

Servo

(God this would be an awomse battle to actually fight out. If you ever find yourself in MN Lucky than bring this list and we will have to throw down! Good Luck)

Yes 20 bolter shots will equal dead orks... Like one. I have 2+ saves, not 'decent' armor saves. At 3+ to hit, that just eliminated 7 bolter shots. at 4+ to wound, thats 6 More. I now have 7 wounds to save, statistically I should lose one Meganob. On the reverse, I have 14 TL shoota shots and 6 Non-TL shoota Shots coming your way before I charge. Thats 8 TL hits (5 for the first time around and 3 more on the reroll) and 2 non TL hits. Thats further reduced by 50% because of the 4+ to wound. You now get your 3+ save on 5 wounds, so 1.67 dead Tzeentch/Black Legion marines. I'm beating you by about 1/2 of a casualty (you had 7 wounds, not 6 so you have 1/6 of a casualty extra on me) So were about even considering the cost on my Meganobs. And the Skorchas are far more dangerous. Even one forces you to take 3-4 armour saves off the bat depending on where the template falls. So I don't see this 20+ shots being much of a threat.

As far as Tank hunting power is considered, I'll do what every good ork player does- I'll use the can opener mounted on my nobs left arm! I don't see you packing ANY antitank weapons short of meltas, And my ENTIRE army has a Str 8 3 shot/attack power klaw! Its even 9 Strength on the Charge due to furious assault!

And again those meltas are only so useful at 24-30" away! Its a 6ft board, it'll take a while to get past my ranginess and use those tank-poppers. Sides, what happens if you actually get to use one? its 3+ to hit, so one of any one squad is probably gonna miss and you only brough two. Then the other has Str. 8 2d6 armor pen (if you can get within 6"- Then If i live I get to steamroll the squad with my Deffrolla!) and that requires you to roll at least two 3's to penetrate my FA 14. Then you roll on the vehicle damage chart-50% of the time it blows up. 1-2 meltas has a pretty low chance of actually destroying a Battlewagon. Screwing with it, yes, but even that isn't guaranteed. And even should you immobilize it, I have grot riggers on everything, so I can attempt to repair that every turn thereafter on a 4+ while I shoot.

And I thought you were coming to meet me! What do I need speed for, your providing all of that! So keep your Rhinos! They'll just deliver your corpses. And I have the WAAGH special rule, I can move 2D6 pick the highest (Slow and Purposeful) averaging about 4 or 5 inches with a good chance of rolling a 6 and a really low chance of rolling two 1's. Then I can fleet d6 on the turn that I call the waagh and finally assault another 2d6 pick the highest. So it shouldn't be too hard to assualt you, so long as the dice don't hate me completely. Thats assuming we start at 12" away, I doubt it will be that far.

(Your turn, servo. I agree this could be awesome, I don't own this build yet, but unlike most BF40k theme armies I actually intend to buy this eventually. Good Game, eh? Good luck yourself! -Lucky)

[Sir_Servo]

With being in Mega-Armour you move as if in difficult terrain. If you ever A) get the charge or B) able to charge my transports than I did something majorly wrong! I should be able to run circles around you and easily take out your transports before they do any real damage. And as it stands now you will have to deploy your HQ first, then I infiltrate my 2 squads of chosen and with there Meltas and Lightning claws should whipe you off the board before any of your army shows up that leaves them in your deployment zone waiting for the rest of your army to show up so that they can pounce on armour and anhilate it before that becomes an issue.

Also remeber that the 20+ (9 marines Rapid Fire with 3 shots from Sorcerer) shots are from each squad so that is 80+ shots from just my troops choices, not including their transports, the Chosen, the Raptors, the HQ, or the Defilers.

If for some reason I can't infiltrate to a point that would allow me to kill your HQ in Turn one than I simily hide in the woods and wait for you to come to me. As my reserves enter play they will use the terrain to hide from your "amazing" Ork shooting ness and just advance until they reach the Rocks or the Forest and wait for you to approch. Once you are in range the Chosen launch out of the forest and take out Armour the Raptors jump over rocks and do the same. The Rest of the army will then pounce on your infantry with a curtain of fire.

Servo


+++EDIT+++
This is my last post here until we get some more votes! I think there is enough junk for people to read on this battle as is.

Oh that reminds me...

COME ONE PEOPLE VOTE!!!!

[Sir_Servo]

Any other voters? Any one? hello? Echo...echo...echo...echo...

Just looking for some more votes,

Servo

[Brother Warchild]

Good arguements from both sides,but i am gonna have to go with Servos Chaos.He has alot of firepower those orkys have to wade threw to get to him.

[SteveBerenyi]

VOTE!

Currently, 4-0 CHAOS

[all-lucky7777]

I didn't dissapear if anyone is wondering. And Servo, I didn't say my orky shooting was 'amazing', just that it was more more or less equivalent to 20+ bolter rounds, due to the twinlinkedness and the skorchas that auto-hit.

As far as taking down my battlewagons is concerned, they have Leman Russ armor! They aren't the crappy little moving bombs otherwise known as trukks. And to mirror you, If you get a side shot with a melta I have done something very wrong.

Also, what are the odds that only one thing will peter out a turn? very low, I can expect to see one meganob squad complete with battle wagon each turn as well as a dread or two.

And the concept of taking my army piecemeal is ridiculous. Your only using tiny pieces of your army to do it! What are 20 marines when segregated form the rest of your force going to do to 17 Ork Terminators + a battlewagon or two! (the boss, the mek, his retinue + one Meganob troops squad) And again, Mega armor speed means diddly when you are getting in MY face! I don't need to be fast, you'll come to me!


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