Goodbye Salamanders

[Warmaster Romulas]

hell we have plenty of fluff for the original legions
what we NEED is rules unique to them

[Captain Slow]

Exactly. you've hit the nail on the head there romulas.
i hope they do a kinda codex astartes thing, all the loyalists with thier rules and bkgrnd, all in one giant book, i mean. that would SERIOUSLY sell, because all leigon Sm players would HAVE to buy the damn thing to play thier armys.

then again, and this is a "quote en quote" GW rumor, much the codex Xenos hunters that was suppost to come out, but there maybe doing anouther dex, like deaomns, just for the traitor leigons, i hope to hell they are but....it could just be anouther alien hunters, and never be released. if it even exsists.
but can you see what im getting at?
if they rolled all the Sm leigons into one BIG ass book, with fluff and rules, and new models, it would SERIOUSLY sell, it be like apoc, but smaller allmost.

[Baron Spikey]

So a reprint of Index Astartes but updated for 4th/5th edition?

[JoeGuardsman]

I always thought the Index Astartes were good books. I can't remember if any of them were over powered but having a good amount of your fluff along with specific rules was exactly what I wanted. The chapter traits while really cool for making your own unknown chapters takes away the uniqueness of the prestigious chapters. Especially when custom chapters can take the same benefits as a prestige chapter but then take cake-walk disadvantages while Salamanders have to take Eye to Eye.

[electricwolf]

Well the space wolves don't have their own codex right now either.

I do agree that the first founding chapters should have come first but in a way i can see why they didn't.

Why would GW focus on one army/fighting force over all the others? it doesn't make good business sense.

[r4wr89]

well you could argue that it does make good business sense. personally when i think of starting 40k, i instantly think of ultramarines. they're simple with paint schemes, flexible and are easily recognized as space marines. thus, when there's a new kid starting and sees all the ultramarines stuff, he doesn't have to make a big decision over which army to play in SM..right ? maybe ?

[Baron Spikey]

r4wr is right- Space Marines are GW's poster boys, when people think of Games Workshop they immediately think of Marines.
Its like when people think of Nintendo or Sega they think of Mario and Sonic respectively (or at least I do)- you support what makes you the most money, its a vicious cycle for the other races/armies but thats business

[Battle-Ranch]

I don't Understand why it would be so hard to make codices for the original legions. they don't even need to full books, maybe Publish them in White dwarf or make a PDF for them. I mean, other than minor differences and some special rules how much would they have to change?

[JoeGuardsman]

Once the Codex Daemons comes out I don't feel that there is anything stopping you from fielding the legions. The cults are in the books as elites and the troops can have icons giving them cult traits. The way that I think about it now is that the elites are the 10,000 year old marines while the troops are newer recruits who aren't as in tune with the gods.

For the non-cult groups it gets a little more difficult. You still can't have basilisks with Iron Warriors (not that I feel you needed them). You can't have cultists with Alpha Legion (even though every army should have the option of cultists). Night Lords you can passably make. The book is a Black Legion book so no problems there.

I'm with you on the WD idea. Lets have another round of Index Astartes articles. Update some of the fluff on each chapter, make the fluff coincide with changes that have been made in the Horus Heresy books. I just hope that they don't try and do too much when they make rules because they will ruin any balance that the army has in about two seconds.

[masterofweirdness]

Ya... the problem is with armies like Word Bearers, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, is that they really need more than what the standard CSM list has right now.

Sure, most of these lists can be done in Apoc... but well... I'd like at least a semi-official rule-list (it doesn't have to tourney official... at least for me). Maybe if GW has the time a "Codex: Traitor Legions" can be made were all the traitor legions have special rules for them.

[Battle-Ranch]

maybe we should start a Founding Legions Project. Make A legion Specific Set of Rules and submit them to WD or even GW. Probably won't solve much but at least they're getting the hint. might even drum up some Freeish Adverts for the Forums

[God_Grinder]

ok my take on it is this, ther are no founind legions anymore, they wher all dissasembled and reformed into chapters 10,000 years ago,most of the imperium couldnt even tell you who the founding chapters wher. people want specifice chaper rules for armie that havent literaly functiond so fo 10,000 yrs? all the main chapters that get the codexes are the leading chapters in curent 40k univers. i see no reason why a second comming chaper wouldnt outshine the original seing as for the last 10k years they wher the same. and imo i dont see why every SM army needs its own specal individual rules. that goes for both loyal and chaos, i for one thought they did a great job on the chaos book. and we learned this week from the GW rep that after the chaos deamon book then 5th ed will be yet another SM redo dex. so we will see what happens......

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by God_Grinder

ok my take on it is this, ther are no founind legions anymore, they wher all dissasembled and reformed into chapters 10,000 years ago,most of the imperium couldnt even tell you who the founding chapters wher. people want specifice chaper rules for armie that havent literaly functiond so fo 10,000 yrs? all the main chapters that get the codexes are the leading chapters in curent 40k univers. i see no reason why a second comming chaper wouldnt outshine the original seing as for the last 10k years they wher the same. and imo i dont see why every SM army needs its own specal individual rules. that goes for both loyal and chaos, i for one thought they did a great job on the chaos book. and we learned this week from the GW rep that after the chaos deamon book then 5th ed will be yet another SM redo dex. so we will see what happens......

I agree with the fact that the current Chaos dex is AMAZING. But I do agree that some armies aren't really well represented.

As for the loyalist SM, mostly I think they've done a good job. Sure, some chapters that had a lot of character have been neutered and given generic rules, but we now have 4 chapters that have special rules (5 if you count Ultramarines), we have Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Dark Angels and Black Templars, good number, IHMO.

Sure, their will always be chapters that some people hold close to their heart and want some more special rules for them, but I think as far as the normal SM go, we don't need anything but a new default codex to update the list a bit, plus change how traits work.

The Traitor Legions are a different story as they still operate much as they did in the days of the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy, they still have specific focuses and obvious strengths and weaknesses. The Alpha Legion makes a great use of cultists, the Iron Warriors use siege tanks like the Basilisk, and the Word Bearers have crazy organizations... none of that can be really done under the current dex except at perhaps at the level of Apoc... which doesn't really count.

[plagemonk]

GW should move away from ultramarines and go for other first founding legions

[Dravenguild]

That would be a risky move unless it was the Blood Angels, GW is wanting to stale things up because their philosophy iss "If it isn't broke, why fix it?"

But someone in the creative department or rather any leaders in their ranks need to broaden marine fluff.

[r4wr89]

the thing is, [ignoring their current situation with releasing 5th] there are too many other armies that GW needs to freshen up before doing major overhauls to the SM codices, which is partly why i agree with you draven. the current SM codex works fine, as do the majority of the SM branch codices.

the other thing that could [and likely will happen] is immediately after the 5th ed rulebook is out, we'll be looking at a new codex: space marines...haha. i wouldn't expect any new SM branch updates for a while after that though..

[qwertyblarg]

i think that there should just be an FAQ released detailing a few rule changes for the FFL and take a few pieces of wargear away and add some in. eg allow all iron hands bionics but take away bikes from death guard for example.

[Salamanderdragon]

ok, herd somthing about Salies Chapter master model and some other kinda rules, so maybe there is some "Flames" on the horizon!

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah Tu'Shan is supposed to be a powerhouse. Apparently just a step or two below Abbadon. He might do something to force organization like the rest of the gang of characters.

[qwertyblarg]

davidus tells me he has reliable sources on tu'shans rules. spam him till he tells. the ource may actually be terra but.............

[Salamanderdragon]

can't wait. But i also wanna see what hes weapons and model will Looklike.