Salamanders Chapter

[shadowhawk]

With the relaese of the Dark Angels Codex thats like the big thing now, but i prefer to build an army on sometihng small or not as well known, and well i like the Salamanders color scheme, so i would apreciate some info on them and how to build an army of them.
CHeers.

[r4wr89]

hmm. i'm sure wikipedia has something to say!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaman...er_40%2C000%29

:] that should be a decent base for any fluff or background you might need. anything else, just wait for other responses to this thread or ask around! one thing i'm pretty sure of is that they have a lot of heavies and termies . :]
-ant

I know one of the traits is cleanse and purify.

[experiment 626]

well, if you have codex armageddon then i'd try to use that list as much as possible though you will need your opponent's consent as it's no longer truely 'legal'... (the horribly over-powered smurf 'dex trumps it!)

the traits in the smurf 'dex suck royally! basically all the really cool things that the salamanders could do anyone can now do... (same goes for the imp fists, scars, raven guard & iron hands too.)
cleanse and purify is a great trait mind, but you'll likely get alot of complaints as it's one of the most commonly used. (even though the salamanders were the original chapter to get the option for 2 flamers in a tac squad! )

if you're looking to build a very characterful salamander army, here's a rough idea of how they used to be;
- stick to flamers & meltaguns for special weapons...
- termies should only ever use thunder hamers + storm shields or else strom bolters & heavy flamers.
- librarians should have fury of the ancients psychic power as it was the originally the salamander's own power!
- take master-crafting because you're playing an army of blacksmiths!
- give any chaplains thunder hammers on top of the crozius. (too bad you have to pay for it though...)
- give your predator destructor heavy flamer sponsons and tell your opponent to go to hell when they complain in friendly games! (god how i miss this set-up!)
- take a techmarine and stick him into a devastator squad so you can use his signum...

and the most important thing to do when playing salamanders;
- give all your models except dreadnoughts a -1I penalty and 2D6-1" (or 3D6-1") fallback!

as you can tell, i used to play a salamander army and i'm still quite upset at how gw has mistreated them!
hope this helps!

cheers!

I've always loved the Salamanders fluff (mainly because i'm learning to blacksmith), but i've never considered viably playing them because their unique-ness and their fluff is gone.

In my opinion, every one of the loyalist and traitor Legions (or Chapters) should eventually have their own 'dex, or a mini 'dex separate from C: SM, detailing them all better.

It wouldn't be that hard, and if done carefully would help to both cut down cheese of SM (lysanderwing comes to mind) as well as give all the legions a reason to exist... I mean.. At this point, from a tabletop standpoint, why would one take Salamanders, or Ravenguard?

Simple things like extra fast attack slot (at the loss of a Heavy support) combined with 'Blessed be the Warriors' would make Raven Guard very, very viable! And making mastercrafting a teency bit cheaper for Salamanders (10 instead of fifteen?), while also allowing cheaper/free upgrades to flamers/meltas along with increasing the cap to two, would be a great viable option. Hell, if they did that, i'd likely grab them rather than make my own...

It'll probbaly never happen, but a Lord Commander can dream, can't he?

[experiment 626]

sadly gw have stated that they will likely not release any more mini-'dexes...

i'm afraid the salamanders are stuck with having all their toys/abilities being dished out like candy along with the other 1st founding chapters.

but yes, we can always hope!

cheers!

[MSguardsmen]

yeah i was going to saw that the termies should have the thunder hammers. you know the whole blacksmiths thing

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

sadly gw have stated that they will likely not release any more mini-'dexes...

i'm afraid the salamanders are stuck with having all their toys/abilities being dished out like candy along with the other 1st founding chapters.

but yes, we can always hope!

cheers!

The sad thing about this, is, that a lot of veteran gamer would love something like this, but the begginners wouldn't... and of course, GW cares more about the little tikes than the older dudes.

[MSguardsmen]

cause your all about to kick the bucket

[r4wr89]

XD haha. sigh. although it seems like a good idea to be supporting both vets and newer players.. anyways.

i think stitch pretty much covered it all in game terms. reading up on some fluff would be fun too, and take a look at some painted salamanders, or some other lists. but then again, that goes along with making any new army..haha so you might already be familiar with those things. anyways.

yea i think salamanders will be a fun army to play. i think a good number of salamanders players also run rhino squads, ie 10 marines in a rhino, 1 flamer, 1 meltagun, and rush recklessly with it. see what you think about that tactic. oh, and personally, i think rhinos look GREAT in green...haha

also: with cleanse and purify there is a certain way to set up the weapons you pay for to save one point. i know, it's trivial, but one point can be a big difference sometimes :] let me look it up a sec.
okay i'm not quite sure but i think this is it:
assuming you get one flamer and one meltagun [those are fluffwise the most "correct" i think, yes?]
if you buy a meltagun first, you have to pay the price of a missile launcher to get the flamer as the "c&p additional weapon," which means you pay 20 points.

however, if you buy a flamer first, then you pay for a lascannon to swap it as a meltagun. this way you actually pay 21 points for exactly the same thing, so be sure to buy it meltagun first, then flamer. :]

happy salamandering!
-ant

so, any suggestions for the most accurate way to create SalamanderS? Current GW army builder set up is 'Cleanse and Purify' along with the trait allowing you to have an extra turn, and the drawback is 'Eye to Eye'. This fits the fluff, but not quite well enough.. Where would we guide this young one to go, in our opinions?

I'm thinking cleanse and purify, no mercy no respite, as well as.... Hmmm... Drawback i'm not to sure of... Can't think of a current one that fits them... Any ideas?

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

so, any suggestions for the most accurate way to create SalamanderS? Current GW army builder set up is 'Cleanse and Purify' along with the trait allowing you to have an extra turn, and the drawback is 'Eye to Eye'. This fits the fluff, but not quite well enough.. Where would we guide this young one to go, in our opinions?

I'm thinking cleanse and purify, no mercy no respite, as well as.... Hmmm... Drawback i'm not to sure of... Can't think of a current one that fits them... Any ideas?

well, the problem with the traits is that if you do use any traits then you must use the ones listed under the chapters of legend...

that's why for non-competitive games i'd ask my opponent if i could use the old codex: armageddon list.

cheers!

Originally Posted by experiment 626

well, the problem with the traits is that if you do use any traits then you must use the ones listed under the chapters of legend...

that's why for non-competitive games i'd ask my opponent if i could use the old codex: armageddon list.

cheers!

Well then... Thats rediculous, as I don't think those fit the chapter well at all. The traits.. I'll have to check Aramageddon.... But, say I were to make a sucessor chapter, and use traits to make them essentially Salamanders in all but name... (The Army ADD is kicking in, Emperor help me!), what traits would you then advise, other than cleanse and purify.

[experiment 626]

the traits that the salamanders have right now aren't that bad and pretty much match upto their original rules;
- clense & purify of corse for the 2x flamers or flamer/meltagun combo
- never despair to keep fighting, though it used to automatic at the salamander player's choice!
- eye to eye is crap because there's cap on assault squads as in the armageddon list! if it was 0-1 assault squad it would be fine, but it's not...

basically they've taken away to huge disadvantages that characterised the salamanders best;
- 0-1 assault squad, 0-1 land speeder squad & 0-1 bike squad.
- the -1I penalty for all your marines except dreadnoughts... (so now i do cry giving my commander his trademark thunder hammer because he does lose out on I!)

plus they took away all of our best advantages and in most cases gave them to anyone who wants them...
- extra special weapons (and we used to be restricted to just a 2nd flamer too!)
- flamers in assault squads
- the never give up and fight an extra turn
- salamander mantle is now adamantine mantle and every chappy seems to wear one these days!
- the horribly broken fury of the ancients power.

basically i want to see the salamanders get their 2 big drawbacks back which is the severly limited fast attack & -1I + 2D6-1" fallback move. (or 3D6-1" for jump troops & bikes!)

cheers!

Originally Posted by experiment 626

the traits that the salamanders have right now aren't that bad and pretty much match upto their original rules;
- clense & purify of corse for the 2x flamers or flamer/meltagun combo
- never despair to keep fighting, though it used to automatic at the salamander player's choice!
- eye to eye is crap because there's cap on assault squads as in the armageddon list! if it was 0-1 assault squad it would be fine, but it's not...

basically they've taken away to huge disadvantages that characterised the salamanders best;
- 0-1 assault squad, 0-1 land speeder squad & 0-1 bike squad.
- the -1I penalty for all your marines except dreadnoughts... (so now i do cry giving my commander his trademark thunder hammer because he does lose out on I!)

plus they took away all of our best advantages and in most cases gave them to anyone who wants them...
- extra special weapons (and we used to be restricted to just a 2nd flamer too!)
- flamers in assault squads
- the never give up and fight an extra turn
- salamander mantle is now adamantine mantle and every chappy seems to wear one these days!
- the horribly broken fury of the ancients power.

basically i want to see the salamanders get their 2 big drawbacks back which is the severly limited fast attack & -1I + 2D6-1" fallback move. (or 3D6-1" for jump troops & bikes!)

cheers!

I'll grab my friends copy of Armageddon and see what the rules are. I may make a small force, enough for scouts, tac, a fluffy HQ, dread and termie (the essential for the fluff head in me.). Who knows?

[masterofweirdness]

Actually, I'm going to be very annoying and say how you can go around using the traits listed in Codex: Space Marines in a game.

Paint your mini's Sally colors, pick the traits you want, and then, say that they are "Lizards" or whatever.

Its like using the Deathwatch for an Ultramarine 1st Company Army, its the Deathwatch, in Blue.

[BrainDeleted]

Really gw does hurt me sometimes when I think about all the character SM have lost and how easy it would be to bring it all back and insync with the currant rules...Codex First founding would be a first step...just give each chapter a different force organisation chart a few special rules, a few new unit types, a bit of fluff,and some special charaters...and keep the currant trait system just remove the traits that are supposed to represent the first founding and come up with some original traits for making your own chapter...so easy and would get most marine players chaos or not to buy 2 dexs instead of 1 more money gw...now if only they would make a cursed founding dexs to...I would love them forever and ever