Terminator Squad Sizes

[Typher]

Im planning on picking up a box of the new terminators and have been debating their role in my overall army. Basically my question is:

whether or not I should assemble them all with powerfist/strombolter and add them to my current 5 man squad (which has a serg and 2 assault cannons). This would give me a very strong squad which I can use with or without my Captain in termi armour, and which would be able to sustain serious damage and still be a dominant force on the board.

The other option is to assemble them as a second squad to gain access to another 2 assault cannons. I have a captain in termi armour so one squad could be a command and one squad an elite, so I could get a 4 man squad ( + captain) and a 6 man elite squad or 5 and 5.

So.... bigger units or more AC

[Spartan2154]

I'm new to the TT game, but an expirienced player at the PC game, and though the two may be completly different, i'd go with the bigger sized units as to spread out your chances of victory.

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

I would agree that bigger units are better. However, Terminators are pretty resilient, and very nasty if they have 2 AC's. I think that Terminators could probably do ok with two groups of 5, or even better that one group of 4 + captain and 6 elite. This will give you more squads, which equals more targets, which means one squad doesn't come under fire from everything.

[Baron Spikey]

10 Terminators in a squad! So incredibly resilient.

I can just imagine your opponent throwing his army's entire firepower against the squad:

"Die! Die!"

smoke(dice) clears and most of the squad is still there.

"[sobbing] Why wont you die?"

Im not a fan of the whole minimum squad sizes, especially with termies just so you can get as many ACs as posible. Thats why when I make a squad of 'em Im gonna use 1 AC & a Heavy Flamer- be a little kooky, a little whacky.

2 ACs in a 5/6 man squad is extremely 'standard'- its almost like "oh there are the terminators, and...yep they have 2 assault cannons".
No offense to anyone who has their squad outfitted like that, Im sure its very effective, its just quite a no-brainer selection.

[Brother_Ambrose]

i like 8 men with 2 assault cannons...kills lots of stuff...

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by baronspikey

10 Terminators in a squad! So incredibly resilient.

I can just imagine your opponent throwing his army's entire firepower against the squad:

"Die! Die!"

smoke(dice) clears and most of the squad is still there.

"[sobbing] Why wont you die?"

Im not a fan of the whole minimum squad sizes, especially with termies just so you can get as many ACs as posible. Thats why when I make a squad of 'em Im gonna use 1 AC & a Heavy Flamer- be a little kooky, a little whacky.

This is also very true. As it is with any army, particularly swarms, if your opponent think to themself "I can't kill all that" then you've won. Ten Termies plus commander can have just this effect. But be wary: they're a big target, and perhaps unlike some other slightly expendable big targets, they do cost you some major pointage. And bad luck does happen.

[Typher]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

they're a big target, and perhaps unlike some other slightly expendable big targets, they do cost you some major pointage. And bad luck does happen.

I can see the post-demolisher-cannon-150pt-lucky shot dance now..... Yes yes I would do anything to avoid that image, especially considering my regular IG opponent's weightclass.....

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Typher

I can see the post-demolisher-cannon-150pt-lucky shot dance now..... Yes yes I would do anything to avoid that image, especially considering my regular IG opponent's weightclass.....

I hadn't even thought of that. Now that you say it, I think splitting them up is a good idea. That way your opponent will have to use 2 demolisher shots instead of 1...

[Inquisitor Ralei]

My Terminator Chaplain is accompanied with a Terminator Veteran Sergeant and 4 Terminators (2 with Assault Cannons) as his Command Squad.
I also have a 5 man squad of Assault Terminators all the Lightning Claws and intend to eventually make these a 10 man squad.
I love the look on my opponents faces when my Command Squad teleports right into the midst of their army. Especially Tau players...they start bricking themselves.

[Typher]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Ralei

I love the look on my opponents faces when my Command Squad teleports right into the midst of their army. Especially Tau players...they start bricking themselves.

quoted for truth

[Baron Spikey]

Originally Posted by Typher

I can see the post-demolisher-cannon-150pt-lucky shot dance now..... Yes yes I would do anything to avoid that image, especially considering my regular IG opponent's weightclass.....

Yeah but theres an answer to that (2 in fact)- your own Anti-tank support to take out troublesome Demolishers and/or give the terminators a cyclone missile launcher and the tank hunters skill.

[Perturabo]

A ten Man Squad is such a morale breaker for the opponent-it gives them such a mountain to climb-but I cant urge you enough to take a teleporter homer if deepstriking,too many times Ive seen Terminators lost to a bad scatter result.
Anti tank wise-give them tank hunters as a vet skill.Dont forget that they have powerfists and if you take the two assault cannons they can use the rending ability to hopefully (if you get that first 6 for penetration) get a second D6 penetration whilst also being deadly against infantry making them great all round!

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

A ten Man Squad is such a morale breaker for the opponent-it gives them such a mountain to climb-but I cant urge you enough to take a teleporter homer if deepstriking,too many times Ive seen Terminators lost to a bad scatter result.
Anti tank wise-give them tank hunters as a vet skill.Dont forget that they have powerfists and if you take the two assault cannons they can use the rending ability to hopefully (if you get that first 6 for penetration) get a second D6 penetration whilst also being deadly against infantry making them great all round!

2AC's = 8 shots, so chances for a 6 are decent! This means you will already have a 12 for armour penetratoin, so the least you could get after that would be 13 (which is glancing a Predator's front!), so they're ok as Anti-Armour if need be!

[masterofweirdness]

I'm planning to run one larger terminator squad (7 assault termies and one chaplain), however, for standard terminators, I think I'd be best to get 6 or 8 man squads 400 points is a HECK of a lotta points to put into one squad, unless your deathwatch.

[Levin]

I usually go for speed of attacks over models... I usually don't play as marines but play them a lot so I've seen just how easy it is to punk out Termies with CC units and power weapons...

With that in mind, I try to keep at least 1 character attatched to every Termie squad I run. This usually means consolidating them into 1 big squad with 6 termies, 1 assault cannon, 1 heavy flamer, Chaplain with 2x lightning claw, and Emperor's Champ.

This setup lets me move up with my landraider crusader, hop out and fire with my guns/flamer, charge and go first in combat. If you rely on you powerfists, occasionally (and this is rare, but it happens) you'll lose a termie or 2 to a unit of guardsmen, or even tau! Never underestimate lucky/bad dice rolling. Often they go hand in hand, and always at the worst time.

Oh yeah, so I like medium sizde units that fit in a landraider...

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Yes i was just about to ask,
are you putting them (any) in transports, what that transport is.
for example 10+commander isn't going to fit inside an LR if your using it.
Also with smaller units, you take morale checks more :P

[Typher]

I prefer deepstriking terminators, and I dont have a Crusader model anyhow. This can work well with a fast army and teleport homers, but it is very true that any army can easily gear themselves to really hurt terminators. If lightning claws + heavy weapons were legal that would be a nice solution to power weapons, but it is not. Thats why its good to attach a I5 character to your powerfist termis if you can. 3 or 4 attacks should clear out any power weapon models ( theyre usually up front!) and then you can bring the powerfists to bear to finish off the combat.

However it is true that mass powerfists is just overkill. I think normal termi squads shouldnt be bigger than 6 or 8 models, as bigger squads should be split for more guns. If you dont want guns then get assault terminators as they will be a lot more productive in CC. If ever a 9 or 10 man termi squad: lightning claws/TH-Stromshield is the way to go.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

ive never been a fan of 10-man termie squads though id go for it just for the look on your enemys face when you teleport in the middle of his army! thatll take a while to shift, i reckon!

i do tend to use mine in crusaders though - i love landraiders being the only non-open topped vehicle that allow disembarkation + assaulting in the same turn! its great and a termie squad + chaplain + librarian all with furious charge are awsome on the charge, easily capable of downing any foe

[Torquemada Coteaz]

just curious.
termie+chaplain+librarian. i'm assuming the termies are TCommand squad for either the chap or the librarian. since the squad cant be both the other has to join the squad as IC, which would cause it to lose furious charge.
Am i correct or am i blabbing?