The Ultimate DIY Chapter Creation Thread, Doing a DIY Chapter? READ THIS!

[Grand Master Raziel]

GMR's note: I did not pen the following document. This is something written by Rogue Trader over on http://bolterandchainsword.com/index...howtopic=65520. It's pretty good stuff, however, so I figured I'd lift it for 40K Terra here. Anything ain't navy blue is RT's work. Enjoy!


As anyone who has ever decided to create their own DIY Chapter knows, the hardest part is finding something original, characterful and that hasn't been done a million times before. This list is intended to help DIY creators, old and new, to avoid some of the pitfalls and cliches that have grown up over the years and create characterful chapters that integrate into the 25 years of established fluff since, after all's said and done, that's what makes WH40k the game it is today.

The list is not intended to be hard and fast rules, rather, to paraphrase Captain Barbosa: "...it's more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules." In fact, there are occasions when breaking some of the 'fluff laws' of 40k can actually prove to be worthwhile, and result in the creation something truly unique...

I'd like to thank all the members of the B&C who made useful contributions to the original discussion that led to the formulation of this list - it can be found in the Frateris Librarium here

+++ List updated 22/04/05 - Aurelius Rex +++


The Do's of DIY Creation.



As before, these are not actual rules, rather, more what you'd call 'guidelines'. That said, the two Golden Rules are the closest you'll come to hard and fast rulings...


Golden Rule no 1: Do be as original as possible.
It’s often said that there are no original ideas, someone, somewhere will always have thought of the exact same thing you have. But, that doesn’t meant you can’t have an original DIY chapter.

It’s fine to be inspired by an existing official chapters, a book, a film, a period of history, a culture or whatever. Do try not to copy the idea wholesale; add something, take something away, twist it about a little, you might surprise yourself with what the end result is...


Golden Rule no 2: Do be prepared to accept criticism of your ideas, and to revise your IA accordingly.
Liber Astartes is all about the feedback. The whole point of this forum is to share your fledgling idea for a DIY with other people who are in a similar situation, and thereby to get as many different views on your work as possible. You don’t have to take all the advice you’re given, you don’t even have to like it, but there’s really no point posting in the first place if you aren’t willing to at least consider some the ideas generated by the community.

In general, most members are trying to help by providing feedback, so try to remember that. By the same token, I expect anyone who does provide feedback to make an effort to provide constructive criticism rather than simply labelling an idea as poor or worthless...

Your DIY is your baby, we all understand that – we’ve all been in the same situation But it’s important to try not to get stuck on an idea long after it's potential has faded - don't be afraid to abandon an idea or rework it to fit at a later date. At worst you can always use the idea for your next DIY. A good IA will grow as you write it, taking on a life of it's own, don't be afraid to let it grow up...


Do have a definite theme for your DIY chapter, and follow it through
The hardest but most vital thing about creating a DIY Chapter is theming it, giving the Chapter a unique identity or purpose, and then weaving this theme into every aspect of their character.

Once the chapter theme has been identified, then you can consider how every aspect of your Chapter from name, homeworld, history, combat doctrine, organisation, relationships and battlecry can be tied into it. By doing this, the chapter becomes more realistic, and in fact easier to write, rather than being just a collection of disparate ideas thrown together.

Similarly, if you have an idea that you love, but it simply doesn't fit into the 'storyline' of your chapter, then put it aside for use later. Its time will come in another project.


Do read as much background material as you can get your hands on.
This is obvious, but the more you read, the more you will come to understand what is and isn’t possible within the framework laid down by GW for the 40k universe, and thus you will be able to write a chapter background that is not only plausable, but fluffy as well, and there’s no better feeling than creating a polished IA that fits seamlessly into the 40k universe.

Do specific research related to your chapter.
Find out all you can about the sector you’re basing your chapter in. Find out what events occurred in that sector, what planets there are, what enemies your chapter is likely to face… Find out about the geneseed of the original Legion your chapter is using, is there anything unusual about the geneseed – a minor mutation to one of the organs (Raven Guard), or organs missing (Imperial Fists)?

Do a rough outline of your ideas first
Creating a good IA is a holistic process, and as one part develops, it may inspire ideas that directly affect other areas of the IA. To this end it’s better to try and develop the IA as a whole, rather than spending time perfecting, say, the Homeworld section before moving on combat doctrine, only to find that you have an idea whilst writing the tactical summary that requires changes to the homeworld…
It never hurts to get the basics down to start off with:

- What geneseed are they?
- What founding were they?
- What is their chapter symbol/colour scheme?
- What is their Homeworld like, and what is the culture of the homeworld? (ie is it a Hive World, a Feral World, a Death World etc)
- Where in the Imperium are they based? (It may help define the kind of enemies they face most often.)
- What is their Combat Doctrine like? (do they prefer Close Combat or ranged fighting?)
- What is their Organisation like (do they follow the Codex or are they a bit different?)
- What is their Belief System?

Do keep it simple
You can’t beat simple ideas. A simple idea that is well written is infinitely preferable to a less well concieved and executed concept. In addition it's actually easier to write about a simple idea which is a nice bonus. You may also find that once you have the simple basics down, the ideas start to grow of their own accord into something more complex.

Do let the fluff dictate the traits, not vice versa.
Write your IA, then decide which traits fit into the fluff afterwards. It’s vastly preferable to do it this way round than trying to fit the background of your chapter to your favourite traits – you’ll end up with a skewed version of your original vision of the chapter as you try and twist the fluff to fit. The last thing you want to do is put the time and effort into writing a comprehensive IA, just to find that you’re really not that happy as it doesn’t match up with what you originally wanted…

Do use a stable geneseed
Established fluff dictates that 2/3rds of chapters are created using UM geneseed, with the Imperial Fist geneseed being second most common. White Scar, Salamander and Iron Hands are all used regularly, whereas Raven Guard and Blood Angel are rarely used due the genetic abnormalities inherent in their gene seed. Similarly, the Dark Angel gene seed is rarely used, and the Space Wolf gene seed has never been used since the creation of the Wolf Brothers in the 2nd Founding.

Do remember that ambiguity in the right place can be a good thing
Ambiguity, conjecture, conspiracy theories... when done in the right way it can lend an air of mystery to your chapters history. It is a way of inserting a juicy plot-hook into the story to tickle the reader. For instance, people still ask about the missing two legions, there is conjecture about Inquisitorial / Assassin involvement in the Celestial Lions downfall during the Third War for Armageddon and the destruction of the Crimson Fists Fortress-Monastery, and those metal hands that Ferrus Manus got - were they from fighting a C'Tan? Like a magician, don't reveal all your secrets.

Do obviously make them heroic, but still make them believable.
Your chapter is the focus, the 'heroes' if you will, and clearly their deeds and battles have to be portrayed in a positive light, but always make sure you keep it believable.

If you say that they annihilated a traitor legion force of vastly superior numbers for virtually no losses, and then beat up Abaddon, gave him a wedgie and stole his Daemon-Sword, then you have failed to maintain the suspension of disbelief, and expect 'Yeah, right!' to be the response.

Do use a GW chapter if you want to
GW creates countless chapters and often never touches them again, providing the ideal opportunity for the novice DIY’er to take up the reins. These chapters can be broken down into two types:

The ‘established chapters’ - those where a name, colour scheme and some fluff exists – the White Consuls for example) and the simple ‘name and colour scheme’ chapter (like many of those in Insignium Astartes or this online directory for example).

One important caveat when taking up an ‘official’ GW chapter is to be prepared for the fact that GW might one day 'resume transmission' for your Chapter, fleshing them out and throwing all your hard work straight out the window. If that’s something you’re prepared to risk, then developing one of these chapters can be a truly rewarding experience.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Couldn't get the whole thing in one post, so I've divided it up. - GMR



The Don't's of DIY Creation



Gene-seed

Don’t claim your chapter is founded from traitor gene seed.
There’s simply no reason to do this, the Imperium has plentiful stocks of loyalist gene seed, and although they have stocks of the traitor gene seed, they are kept under time locked stasis seals. Of course there’s no reason you can’t have your chapter unaware of the origin of their gene seed (through loss or destruction of chapter records, for example), and instead hint (but without ever explicitly stating) that maybe they might have been created using a traitor geneseed…

Don't use Space Wolf gene-seed for your chapter.This goes along the lines of using Traitor legion gene-seed for foundings. Only one other chapter to use the SW gene-seed, the Wolf Brothers, and they are no longer in existence. After this, the use of SW gene-seed was forbidden. The only fluffy way you can get away with SW gene-seed is by creating a Cursed (21st) or Dark (13th) Founding chapter, but it is highly unlikely that they would know who their gene-seed is from. It's easier to use the SW rules and come up with some other explination for their rules. Rename equipment and come up with a new idea why they have the rules they do.

Don't claim your Dark Angels successor chapter hunts the Fallen.
The established fluff clearly states that only the Unforgiven chapters (the DAs and their second founding chapters) are aware of the Fallen's existence. None of the 3rd founding or later chapters are aware of the Fallen. Your chapter is no exception. If you use the DA rules, there are plenty of reasons to provide an alternative fluff explanation for the ‘Hunt the Fallen’ rules. Just be creative.

Don’t mix or tamper with gene seeds.
Mixed/combined geneseed is a bad idea, those few occasions where manipulation of the geneseed has occured have resulted in bad thing happening to the Chapter in question (look at the Relictors or Lamenters, for example). Gene seed is the holiest of holies, it is part of the Primarch himself which is implanted into a Marine and makes him truly superhuman. To dilute or manipulate holiest remnants of the Primarch is surely the highest heresy possible.

The only real occasion you can get away with combined geneseed is by creating a Cursed (21st) or Dark (13th) Founding chapter, and even then, I’d recommend against it.

Don't say that your Chapter has solved the Curse of Sanguinius.
The Sanguinius geneseed affects its recipients more than any other type. As well as their great longevity, they are cursed by the Black Rage and Red Thirst which has thwarted their Apothecaria for ten thousand years. While the ill-advised geneseed splicing of the Cursed Founding moderated the effects, it had its own serious side effects.

Blood Angels successors are most suited to Blood Angels Codex rules rather than traits unless you have a really good explaination of how they have defeated the Curse of Sanguinius.




Chapter Origin

Don’t claim that your chapter is one of the missing legions.
Part of the charm of the 40k Universe is that we don't know everything, we don't know what happened to the two missing legions, we don't even know why all records of the two legions were destroyed. That's good though, and GW knows better than any of us that if they told us every little detail, and didn't keep some mysteries, people would lose interest pretty quickly.

Don’t claim your chapter is a loyal remnant of a Legion that turned traitor in the Heresy.
It’s a safe bet that any remnants of a traitor Legion that showed up in Imperial space today would be met with all guns blazing, and wouldn’t last long enough to have the chance to convince anyone they were still loyal…

Don’t claim your chapter is from the 2nd founding.
GW have the 2nd Founding locked down – the only leeway is with the UM 2nd Founding chapters – the Apocrypha of Skaros claims 23 successor chapters were formed from the UM, but GW has only named about 15 of them.

Chapters are not formed from lost/forgotten companies.
Any company or detachment of a chapter lost or forgotten by the parent chapter does not get to create their own chapter just because they paint their armour a different colour and change their name. A company of Dark Angels separated from the Chapter for however long, are still Dark Angels, and would simply be reabsorbed when they made contact with the Rock..

Don't claim your Chapter was created whole from another Chapter.
Having a cadre of Marines from Chapter X form the command nucleus of Chapter Y is reasonable, but a Chapter building up to the point where 1000 Marines break off to form another Chapter just isn't going to happen...

Don’t claim your chapter was created by (fill in your favourite Primarch here) in secret before the Heresy.
It just wouldn’t have happened. Before the Heresy, marines were formed into Legions. Why would any Primarch choose to dilute his power rather than simply add more men to his Legion? More to the point, with 20 Legions in existence, there was no need for “secret” chapters, there was more than enough manpower available.

Don’t claim to have your chapter created from a secret 21st Primarch.
There were 20 Primarchs. No more, no less. Don’t try and rip up 25 years of fluff by creating your own secret Primarch, it’s just stupid and pointless. When creating a DIY, you can define the chapter’s character however you want, and when it comes down to it, gene seed plays little or no role in this. Creating a new Primarch and gene seed line does nothing but ruin any credibility your chapter may have. Along much the same lines, don't claim the Emperor proivided your chapter's gene seed - only the GKs can claim this, and even then, it's only a rumour...

Don’t try to make your chapter fulfil one of the role of another Imperial organisation.
This usually turns out to be the Officio Assassinorum, for some reason. The role of Marines is not to assassinate enemy leaders, or hunt down heretics, or police a planet or any of the other roles fulfilled by other organs of the Imperial machine (Officio Assassinorum, Ordo Hereticus, Adeptus Arbites in case you were wondering!). Space Marines are the Emperor’s Angels of Death – they are a surgical strike force of near unstoppable bio-engineered killing machines. Whilst they may be called in when the situation escalates beyond the abilities of other Imperial Organisations, they deal with the problem then leave. They don’t suddenly decide that having pacified a rebellious planet (for example) that they will take over the duties of the Arbitrators on that planet. There are one million planets in the Imperium and only a million marines to guard them. Marines are too valuable to be wasted on roles that can be fulfilled by lesser men.

Don’t claim your chapter was founded by anyone other than the High Lords of Terra.
Only the High Lords of Terra (speaking on the Emperor's behalf) can order the founding of a new chapter. End of Story. Based on the established fluff it is extremely unlikely that any Inquisitor (or AM renegade or whoever) could obfuscate the AM sufficiently for them to embark on the creation of a new chapter (which would undoubtedly be a significant undertaking even for the AM) One way past this is to have your group (=][=, AM or whoever) lobby and petition the High Lords of Terra for the Chapter to be created at the next founding, thereby keeping them official but with the option of including outside influences.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Assorted Clichés and Lazy Plot Devices

Don’t get your chapter lost in the warp.
For one simple reason – it’s old, boring and so overused. It adds nothing to your chapter’s history or character – there are so many other, better ways to lose your chapter for a few hundred years if that’s really what you want you do.

Don’t claim your marines are female.
Marine organs are keyed to male hormones. They don’t work in women. Feel free to read more on this debate here.

The ‘Rogue Inquisitor’ Deus Ex Machina
Resist the temptation to cover over the holes in your plot with the sudden and out-of context appearance of a rogue / Radical Inquisitor.

The plot device of a rogue inquisitor who appears from no-where, waves his wand to magically explain away inconvenient problems like why your chapter has female marines / is a loyalist traitor offshoot / are subject to gross mutation before disappearing from the story is lazy storytelling. It smacks of either of an unimaginative way of explaining a potentially interesting Chapter characteristic, or a desperate attempt to rationalise a bad idea. Either way, it is a lazy plot device that it would be best to avoid!

Don't mistake codex deviations and GW precidents for originality and character.
The distinctiveness of a chapter is defined by how and why it does things differently from other Chapters, but do not fall into the trap of loading your DIY Chapter up with flashy deviations from codex organisation and the latest gimmick of the week GW precidents like spliced geneseed in the belief that it is the same as originality and character.

Just because there are precidents for a thing to happen, does not necessarily mean that it advances your chapters storyline. Such 'deviations' require more explaination to integrate into your Chapter background than a throwaway 'But the Relictors / Space Wolves / Grey Knights can do it!' Why did this incredibly rare event strike your chapter, and more importantly how has this momentous thing affected every aspect of how the Chapters existence. While one or two such 'deviations' could be integrated into your chapter theme, or might itself become the chapter theme, if you have to integrate too many of these events then the Chapter will inevitably lose it's central identity and will be weakened as a result.

It is remarkable what can be achieved within the 'constraints' of normal geneseed and codex company organisation. In fact, it is much more satisfying, and takes more imagination and flair to do the same kind of things within these boundaries than it does to fall back onto the lazy plot devices of geneseed mixtures, gross variant company structures and rogue Inquisitor 'Deus ex Machina' plot-hole fillers.

Don't take the easy way out. You might like what you can achieve when you stretch yourself and your imagination.

Don’t claim your marines are “nice”.
They aren’t. Marines are bio-engineered killing machines. Fair enough, chapters like the Salamanders may have a humanitarian streak, but they doesn’t make them cuddly and nice. They still chant Catechisms of Hate as they go into battle, and they will still kill anyone or anything that opposes the Emperor’s will. There is a big difference between helping out distressed refugees (for example) when there’s no fighting to be done and choosing to ignore the approaching tide of Greenskins in favour of picking up a little girl’s teddy bear out of the mud. The Imperium is a harsh place, and nice people don’t live long.

On the same note, a Chapter of 1000 Marines doesn’t become ambassadors or negotiate, they don’t form alliances with Xenos species. They kill them. End of story.

Don't claim your chapter was central to any of the major campaigns.
GW have many of their pivotal campaigns locked down. For example, The Battle for Macragge was the UM vs the ‘nids. No other chapters were present. This means your chapter wasn't there, however much you want them to have been.

The more recent major campaigns - Armageddon, EoT etc are ideal for us DIY-ers – they allow vastly more leeway for DIY chapters to play a "supporting role" - perhaps arriving as reinforcements or mopping up after one of the named engagements, or playing a role on a named planet that didn't feature heavily in the official fluff for the conflict. However, claiming your force played a pivotal role in turning the tide of the most decisive and well documented battle of a campaign is never a good idea...






RT's final thought: The most important thing to remember is that in the end, it's just a game. They're your models, you paid for them, you can do what you like, just as long as you have fun!

This post has been edited by Kurgan_the_Lurker: May 12 2006, 12:54 PM


--------------------

RT
Ordo Literatus

Talking the talk
Walking the walk

[r4wr89]

lol good work. way to lay down the law.
i think, so far my chapter history breaks none of these suggestions/rules.huzzah!

no warps, no inquisitors, not central [to basically anything at all in 40k storyline], not particularly cuddly, etc.

we kill tau all day. all. day.

:]
-ant

My only question about Marines not forming alliances and being cuddly with Xenos is the Blood Ravens... Them and the Eldar seem cuddly.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

My Space Marine Army;

The Black Lions

Trait Advantages

No Mercy, No Respite
Blessed be the Warriors

Trait Disadvantage

Eye to Eye

Unlike what you've said, my Marines are from mixed Gene-Seed, notably the Blood Angels (aggressive part of the army) and Salamanders (the more taciturn side). I don't propose that the Curse of Sanguinius has been solved but is less prominent thanks to the stable Salamander Gene-Seed and for game purposes I don't have to completely adhere to the Blood Angel constrictions. That's all the fluff I have for my army, I'm not one to write my own IA article!

[Baron Spikey]

In a way my chapter has mixed geneseed in that the marines originate from many different places, so nearly every geneseed type is present in the chapter- though (as far as I am aware) there are no marines who combine geneseed in themselves.

After reading the High Lords of Terra bit, Im glad I mention them decreeing the formation of my chapter- which admittedly they then put under Inquisitorial control.

I have to admit that the Knight's background is rather peculiar, possibly even implausible, but hopefully I've written it in such a fashion as to seem that it was simply a rare event rather than an impossibility.

Glad I haven't written them into any major, well known, campaigns though

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Hmm.. I agree that inquisitors shouldn't be used as plot cover.
for mine though ive basically included Coteaz to get the DH involved in some way. though "apparently" he hasnt done anything.

unless writing inquisitorial fluff i generally:
1) mostly dont use inquisitors
2) when writing any fluff i NEVER mess with already made characters. Coteaz was rumored sighted in the crusade, thats it.

[Greymane]

>>Good stuff in there mate. Agree with the dont mix gene-seed part. Why would the High Lords mix seed, they un-stable enough as it is without mixing. Mixing, imho, is again laziness, and wanting your cake etc, etc. Again, dzmned fine guide-lines, may use them myself sometime.

[Chaptermaster Kezef]

Originally Posted by baronspikey

In a way my chapter has mixed geneseed in that the marines originate from many different places, so nearly every geneseed type is present in the chapter- though (as far as I am aware) there are no marines who combine geneseed in themselves.

After reading the High Lords of Terra bit, Im glad I mention them decreeing the formation of my chapter- which admittedly they then put under Inquisitorial control.

I have to admit that the Knight's background is rather peculiar, possibly even implausible, but hopefully I've written it in such a fashion as to seem that it was simply a rare event rather than an impossibility.

Glad I haven't written them into any major, well known, campaigns though

well from what i have read i see your Penitant knights more of a deathwatch (or whatever they are called) like chapter but i dont really know much about the Deathwatch other then many chapters send marines to it. do your apothecaries send the gene-seed of the fallen marines back to the parent chapter of each marine that joins? dont remember seeing if you wrote about that...

anyways i used the above Guide when creating my wyverns

[Grand Master Raziel]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

My only question about Marines not forming alliances and being cuddly with Xenos is the Blood Ravens... Them and the Eldar seem cuddly.

Game designers and such folks can get away with more stuff than we as mere players can, as they actually set the canon that we players have to follow. Besides, if your definition of being "cuddly" is killing a whole steaming pile but not finishing them off because you've got bigger fish to fry, that pretty much sums up the relationship between the Imperium and the Eldar as a whole.

Inquisitor Ralei wrote:

The Black Lions

Unlike what you've said, my Marines are from mixed Gene-Seed, notably the Blood Angels (aggressive part of the army) and Salamanders (the more taciturn side). I don't propose that the Curse of Sanguinius has been solved but is less prominent thanks to the stable Salamander Gene-Seed and for game purposes I don't have to completely adhere to the Blood Angel constrictions. That's all the fluff I have for my army, I'm not one to write my own IA article!

Well, you have to decide what's more important to you: pleasing yourself, or being plausable to the playing community as a whole. If you like your fluff, that's really the most important thing, but if you'd like it better if the rest of us dug it as well, you might consider another explanation.

Baronspikey wrote in regards to his chapter, the Penitent Knights:

In a way my chapter has mixed geneseed in that the marines originate from many different places, so nearly every geneseed type is present in the chapter- though (as far as I am aware) there are no marines who combine geneseed in themselves.

That's fine. As I recall, your chapter isn't built along the traditional mold, but formed from individual members from other chapters who are seeking atonement. That, at least, seems plausable. Also, there is an established precedent for that style of organization: the Deathwatch.

[Baron Spikey]

Originally Posted by Chaptermaster Kezef

well from what i have read i see your Penitant knights more of a deathwatch (or whatever they are called) like chapter but i dont really know much about the Deathwatch other then many chapters send marines to it. do your apothecaries send the gene-seed of the fallen marines back to the parent chapter of each marine that joins? dont remember seeing if you wrote about that...

Its not in the army background for the Penitent Knights, BUT it is in the background for the Ordo as a whole- basically unless the marine was a volunteer who expects to return to his original chapter the geneseed is sent to the world of one of the 2 garrison chapters (Sons of Mercy & Eternal Shields). These are the only chapters to create new space marines in the ordo- excess geneseed is stored, similar to a much, much smaller Hydraphur(if that is the right place?).

[Chaptermaster Kezef]

does you chapter fall under the same ordo as the deathwatch and where might i find out more info on that, this has peaked my interest

[Baron Spikey]

Nope it doesnt fall under the same Ordo as the Death Watch, more fluff can be read on the fluff forum under 'Penitent Knights'. Now I dont want to hijack this thread so if anyone else has any questions just direct them to the above thread and I'll answer them.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

I think people are taking this list a bit too literally!
It's only someones opinion and there are other Chapters that have mixed geneseed...it stands to reason to mix geneseed and just stating the Relictors as being bad and hence all mixed chapters is pretty lame.
Remember, it's just some dudes beliefs and in the grand scheme of things means very little.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Ralei

I think people are taking this list a bit too literally!
It's only someones opinion and there are other Chapters that have mixed geneseed...it stands to reason to mix geneseed and just stating the Relictors as being bad and hence all mixed chapters is pretty lame.
Remember, it's just some dudes beliefs and in the grand scheme of things means very little.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. However, I think the majority of players tend to be more impressed with background that follows canon than with background that wildly contradicts the established setting. Mixing geneseed is one of the most heretical things that could be done in the 40K setting. Geneseed isn't just super soldier serum, it's genetic material from a Primarch. To put it in perspective, that would be like a Christian having access to DNA from an archangel. That's stuff you treat with all the reverence of your most sacred relics, not stuff you monkey with to see what happens. So, yes, you can say your chapter comes from mixed geneseed if you want, but that's not going to impress many people.

[ServanoTomasin]

My chapter are the Iron Templars. They are a very small chapter after a many hard fought battles in the Sabbat Worlds. They are (posssibly) a spin-off for the Iron Hands. They are a mercinery unit, as they move from battles to battle. They never give up in battle which is possibly why they have lost so many marines. The chapter is very Ad-Mech like, but still have chaplains but they hate psykers. I'm saying that since they have been in the battles so long/lost for so long, they have not repaired anything that well, and my marines all have a dark coloured and battle scarred armour (my techmarines red armour, has slowly rusted and turned green-ish brown).

They are lead by techmarines so I'm using Scions of Mars, and hate psykers so I will use the trait Have faith in suspision.

Would those traits fit a mercinery, Adeptus mechanicus heavy, lost chapter work?

What do you think?

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Grand Master Raziel

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. However, I think the majority of players tend to be more impressed with background that follows canon than with background that wildly contradicts the established setting. Mixing geneseed is one of the most heretical things that could be done in the 40K setting. Geneseed isn't just super soldier serum, it's genetic material from a Primarch. To put it in perspective, that would be like a Christian having access to DNA from an archangel. That's stuff you treat with all the reverence of your most sacred relics, not stuff you monkey with to see what happens. So, yes, you can say your chapter comes from mixed geneseed if you want, but that's not going to impress many people.

It doesn't contradict established fluff whatsover, I've been reading the fluff long enough to know that I'm not writing something that hasn't been written before. There are other Chapters that have a combination of Ultramarine and Dark Angel geneseed.
Why would the AdMech have repositories of geneseed if all they were going to do was use geneseed restricted to specific Chapters? If that was the case they'd use the 5% of Ultramarine geneseed they get each tithe to make each new founding Chapter. If you have pure Ultramarine geneseed as well as Imperial Fists, it stands to reason to mix geneseed so the subsequent Chapter has the best of both worlds rather than lacking a Sus-an Membrane and a Betchers Gland.

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

Way to ruin our fun <_< j/k

To my knowledge I haven't broken any of these 'rules'.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Grand Master Raziel

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. However, I think the majority of players tend to be more impressed with background that follows canon than with background that wildly contradicts the established setting. Mixing geneseed is one of the most heretical things that could be done in the 40K setting. Geneseed isn't just super soldier serum, it's genetic material from a Primarch. To put it in perspective, that would be like a Christian having access to DNA from an archangel. That's stuff you treat with all the reverence of your most sacred relics, not stuff you monkey with to see what happens. So, yes, you can say your chapter comes from mixed geneseed if you want, but that's not going to impress many people.

the adeptus mechanicus are well known for hiding many secrets and not being the most honest at the best of times... hell, look at how they abused billions upon billions of guardsmen who served protecting their secret facility on hydra cordatus?!! they knowingly gave the guardsmen pills that would cause numerous cancers and other health problems, simply to keep a high turn-around rate and prevent any regiment from snooping into the base's secrets!!!

the whole of the 'cursed founding' chapters are another big secret. everyone of those chapters has mutations and/or bad luck. much of this is rummored to stem from the adeptus mechanicus monkeying around with the space marine's gene-seed and creating hybrid zygotes from two or more different primarchs!
in short, if you want a reason to do something, it's quite alright to;
a) blame the magi of mars because they're a secretive organisation with their own hidden agendas!
b) blame the inquisition because they're a secretive organisation with their own hidden agendas!
c) blame the highlords of terra because well, they're corrupt politicans with their own hidden agendas!
d) chaos did it!

cheers!

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Well said, although you court heresy with those opinions!