1,500pts stinky cheese?

[Pabst]

So I normally write competitive tourney oriented lists for my IG and this is my first in a very long time and I gotta say its the nastiest yet haha. Please check it out and lemme know what you think?

Also for a little background I end up against alot of Chaos with big giant scary daemon princes with nastier retinues, Iron Warriors and some very slippery eldar

Enjoy!

Doctrines
------------
Close Order Drill
Veterans
Rough Rider Squads
Special Weapons Squads
Drop Troops


HQ
-------------
Junior Officer w/Honorifica Imperialis, BP and PW
Vet w/Company Standard
Missile Launcher
-97pts

Support Squads
----------------
Fire Support Squad #1- 3 Auto Cannons
Anti-Tank Support squad #1- 3 Lascannons
Anti-Tank Support squad #2- 3 Lascannons
Special Weapons Support Squad #1- Demo Charge & 2 Flamers (Deep Striking)
Special Weapons Support Squad #2- Demo Charge & 2 Flamers (Deep Striking)
-441pts

Troops
-----------
Platoon HQ-
JO w/BP & PW
Missile Launcher
Plasma Gun x2
-81pts

1st Squad-
Vet Sgt w/Bp & ccw
H-Bolter
Plasma
-87pts

2nd Squad-
Vet Sgt w/Bp & ccw
H-Bolter
Plasma
-87pts


AF Squad
-----------
Chimera w/m-laser, h-bolter & smoke launchers
Vet Sgt w/Bp & ccw
Plasma
-165pts


Fast Attack
--------------
5 Rough Riders w/Hunting Lances & Vet Sgt
5 Rough Riders w/Hunting Lances & Vet Sgt
-122pts

Elites
-------------
1 Vet w/Shotgun
3 Vets w/Melta guns
Vet Sgt w/Plasma Pistol & CCW
(Deep Striking)
-85pts


1 Vet w/Shotgun
3 Vets w/Melta guns
Vet Sgt w/Plasma Pistol & CCW
(Deep Striking)
-85pts

Heavy Support
-------------------
Basilisk w/Indirect Fire
Basilisk w/Indirect Fire
-250

Total-1,500pts

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

IG listsa re very hard to gague. to me, on paper, they all look crap, though things on the table can be very very different

i like that theres rough riders and close order drill, which can be a bit of a wild card (good in combat, bad against blasts)

[hairyyahoo]

well, i'm not liking the lack of infantry, 1 minimum platoon and an armoured fist ain't gonna last long! the deepstriking vets and special weapons squads are cool, i'd loose the plasma pistols on the vet sarges, but you can't go far wrong with demo charges! personal preferance would see me changing the autocannon squad to heavy bolters one squad of lascannons to missile launchers and the 'lisks to a russ, freeing up some points for more infantry. the rough riders are cool but, as i'm sure stitch will tell you, even numbers are better for scoring unit perposes, so maybe 1 unit of 6-8? 10 is too many i think but is good for stopping power so its up to you.

thats all i had.

[Perturabo]

I must agree lack of numbers in a guard army is a problem-both over all and in squad size. the die to easily and run away just as easily too

Though Im sure there will be Guard players out there who will refute this, it is generaly what I have seen (after all its what the Guard is renowned for-thousands of men).

Also I agree with the Las Cannons to Missile Launchers bit-gives some flexibility.

I would also think about trading out the heavy weapons in the troops squads as you have mixed assault weapons with heavy weapons (which I see as a no no) use the points for more troops and push forward to support your deepstriking squads, other wise you will be caught in the dilema of firing the heavy weapon or moving (which normaly leads to the wrong choice), so remove the option.

Use the Leman Russ's to support the advance (bassilisks are good but against Chaos marines who are normaly small spaced out squads-easy to miss, not as effective as the can be)

[experiment 626]

as the others have pointed out, it's not really stinky at all... we can do much more hideious things!

your bodycount is low... i'd drop the bassies as they're more of a liability on anything smaller than 8'x4' due to that very large minimum range.
a pair of russes is much scarier, especially if you can find pts to make them demolishers! (side armour 13? yes please!)

the vets & roughriders should be all 6 strong for scoring unit purposes. you can skimp on the roughriders as they're really not ment to survive at all, but the vets definately should go upto 6 strong...

that platoon command squad should lose the rocket launcher and take another plasma gun & a medic. now you've got a very scary anti-meq unit that can also deep strike if need be.

your officers need iron discipline... simply put, guard armies run away without it.


now, if you're wanting to play purely foul dairy, plump for the no-brainer las/plas gunline supported by 3 russes. no transports, no shiny stuff, just as many infantry platoons with as many plasma guns & lascannons as you can get your hands on! support that with 3 basic russes w/only a hull heavy bolter...
there's very, very little that will get through that much ap2. between 48"-24" you lay down that killing zone; armour and monstrous creatures are in this instance your infantry's first priority while the russes just start blowing big holes in anything else!

cheers!

[Perturabo]

I agree its not really a cheesy list at all (Having faced a 3000 point las cannon battery I should know)

[Pabst]

cool, thanks for the advice ill definatly take it into consideration and do some revision.
Also I gotta say im surprised at Stitch! Las in line squads?? I thought you were with me on the sacred doctrine of inf squads kill infantry, not stand around and watch the las cannon miss a tank. haha

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Pabst

cool, thanks for the advice ill definatly take it into consideration and do some revision.
Also I gotta say im surprised at Stitch! Las in line squads?? I thought you were with me on the sacred doctrine of inf squads kill infantry, not stand around and watch the las cannon miss a tank. haha

that is the general rule of thumb 99% of the time.

however, if you're going to build the guard's most effective power gamer list, then you do break that rule and go for the lascannons... the idea here is to create the 'SIGAFH' principle - the nastiest the guard can do! (SIGAFH = Shooty Imperial Guard Army From Hell.)
the idea in this build type is that you throw down as much ap2 fire as possible, while leaving the mass hoards to your 3 russes. (who only take the hull heavy bolter because they must have a hull-mounted weapon!)
a typical SIGAFH army should be able to fit in between 18-24 lascannons along with at least a dozen or more plasma guns.

granted this list is 100% boring to play with and against, but it's pretty much fool-proof in that each shooting phase you're throwing out a bucket load of high ap fire at long range...
normally you'd deploy as far back as possible and never move an inch for any reason! if the guard get the first turn, they can usually cripple most opponent's within that 1st turn. (i once saw this build take-out roughly 1100pts of blood angels in a single shooting phase!)

cheers!

[Pabst]

Gotcha. Thanks for all the input everyone! I guess I was going for fun and competitive and a little less cheese haha. So heres my revision

Doctrines
------------
Close Order Drill
Iron Discipline
Droop Troops
Special Weapons Squads
Rough Rider Squads


HQ
---------
Junior Officer w/ Iron Discipline, BP, PW and Honorifica Imperialis
Vet w/Company Standard
Heavy Bolter
-97pts

Support Squads
----------------
Anti-Tank Squad #1 w/3 Missile Launchers
Anti-Tank Squad #2 w/3 Las Cannons
Special Weapons Squad #1 w/Demo Charge and 2 Flamers (Deep Striking)
Special Weapons Squad #2 w/Demo Charge and 2 Flamers (Deep Striking)
-331

Troops
--------------
1st Platoon:

Junior Officer w/Iron Discipline, Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
Plasma x2
Medic
-82pts

1st Squad
-------------
VetSgt w/Las Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
Heavy Bolter
Plasma Gun
-86pts

2nd Squad
------------
VetSgt w/Las Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
Heavy Bolter
Plasma Gun
-86pts

2nd Platoon:


Junior Officer w/Iron Discipline, Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
Plasma x2
Medic
-82pts

1st Squad
-------------
VetSgt w/Las Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
Heavy Bolter
Plasma Gun
-86pts

2nd Squad
------------
VetSgt w/Las Pistol & Close Combat Weapon
Heavy Bolter
Plasma Gun
-86pts

-508

Fast Attack
-------------
5 Rough Riders w/Hunting Lances & VetSgt
5 Rough Riders w/Hunting Lances & VetSgt
Sentinel w/H-Flamer (deep striking)
-162

Elites
-----------
2 Hardened Vets w/Shotguns
3 Hardened Vets w/Meltas
Vet Sgt w/BP & PW
(Deep Striking)
-89

Heavy Support
--------------
Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ Demolisher w/Hull Heavy Bolter
-310

Total-1497pts

Enjoy!

[Perturabo]

Just out of in interest, do you intend to use this as a IGSAFH or actualy go forward with it?

I ask because if you intend to sit back and shoot the frak out of your opponent you could drop the Rough Riders (and maybe even the deepstriking troops-after all the enemy is coming to you) and get even more troops or get more heavy weapons

or

If you do intend to advance I still stand by the not mixing assault weapons and heavy weapons in a squad, this way you can always advance your infantry squads and fire with them-no do I shoot the heavy weapon dilema! After all your deepstriking troops could do with all the support they can get!

[Pabst]

Nah, IM looking at it as kinda a competative, "take all comers" list.

[experiment 626]

the general rule i've found when playing drop troops is that if you intend your deep strikers to actually survive and take objectives, you need lots of 'em!

right now you have a few smallish, yet hard-hitting squads. however, if the rest of your force sits back, then your deep strikers will be reduced to 'suicide squads' who will drop in, blow some shiny stuff to crap and then get gunned down afterwards...
either add-in another infantry squad or two with only special weapons as pert says, or else make sure your game-plan doesn't require your sacrifical troops to actually claim anything!

cheers!

[Timber-WoIf]

those veterans, if you deep strike them, i can GARUNTEE that they will die the first opportunity your opponent has to kill them. Which makes me ask, with three melta guns, what do you plan on using them for?

if you want them to kill heavy infantry/ monstrous creatures, give em plasma. heck, if you wanna kill tanks with em too, give em plasma anyway. plasma is plenty strong to punch most rear armor (what, everything but monolith and land raider)
the plasma will be more effective on a wider varity of targets. yes plasma guns blow up, especially when you double tap, but at only 6 men strong, they're all going to die next turn anyway. If you want to use them as tank killers, then you should be able to drop one of the meltas. with thier bs, the odds of both missing are pretty low, and if yer in melta range penetration shouldnt even be a concern.

also, ad far as leadership goes, lose the veteran sgts in the regular infantry squads. and the CCWs. regular sgt w/t lasgun. Heroic senior in HQ command, honorifica on the infantry platoon officer. that way you have two leaderhsip 9 dudes you can spread out, keeping all your squads in check. been using that strat sense i started, has worked wonderfully

lose the power weapons on the base junior officers, too. They don't benefit from close order, and are IC, so assuming they dont get smacked down off the bat due to their low WS and Int, they still more than likely wont wound anything anyway. A very good rule of thumb to follow with all yer guardsmen is that if they get in close combat, they will die. They lack the WS and str to actually hurt anything, and even with hardend fighters and carapace, your only slowing thier death. the herioc seniors have higher int, and they have a decent number of attacks, so thiers a decent chance they might inflict a wound. still, close combat upgrades are for the most part a waste of points.

i'd also recommend replacing those hardened vets with storm troopers. slightly more resilient, and will cost about the same points for a 6 man squad (1 sgt with hellpistol & CCW, 3 stormtroopers with hellguns + targeters, 2 ST with meltagun. krak and frag grenades, deep strike. about 86 points.)

if you have the points to spare for heavy bolter sponsons on those tanks, it would be useful vs monstrous creatures. but dont go out of the way to put those on.

i dunno about the sentinel, either. seems kinda random.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Actually... Per what I gleaned form glancing at books... Blast weapons, when they hit dead center (scatter dice = hit, not scatter) they count as hitting the rear armor of the vehicle, always.. the theory behind this is it hits top armor when perfectly centered on vehicle, and the BBB (reportedly) says the top armor = the rear armor of the vehicle. So, if this is true... Plasma is the ideal weapon for these guys... Is this true?

[Timber-WoIf]

um... i know, in case of direct ordinance anyway, you penetrate on the armor faceing the attacker. Like a regular weapon. I dunno about barrage weapons though.