Another 1500 list to critique

[nova9]

OK, I have not played in about 8 years (military time) and am wanting to start an army up. I have the codex, and am making a list before buying an army. I would love to get feedback and a few clarifications on if I'm orginizing my units incorrectly before I purchase an army. Oh, this is a 1500 point list, as the threads make that appear to be the norm.

Doctrines: Vets
Sharpshooters
Iron discipline
Special weapons squads
conscripts

HQ1: Colonel/Commissar gaunt.

HQ2: Senior officer+pwr weap+Bolt pistol+iron discipline.
Troops have CC weap and pistol

2x Fire support squad: 3 autocannons +sharpshooter

1x anti-tank: 3 lascannons + sharpshooter

2x special weapons squads: pistol+c.c weap + demo charge

Troop 1: Senior officer + Pwr weapon + bolt pistol + iron discipline
(there is verbage in the infantry platoon section that has me confused, am I allowed a senior officer here or does it have to be junior??

squad 1: vet sarge and flamer

squad 2: Vet sarge and flamer

squad 3: vet sarge

squad 4: plain baby, just plain
+Chimera (multilaser, Heavy bolter+smoke launchers+netting)


Troop 2: 3 squads of conscripts
Here is my 2nd and 3rd question, am I correct in that I do not need a little HQish command squad to head the conscripts?? And also, am I correct in believing that the super-cool colonel gaunt can lead this rabble??


Heavy 1: Lemun Russ Executioner +3 heavy bolters + netting + searchlight
Ok, I lOVE the rules for this tank as I understand them, and plasma is very cool, but can someone tell me if imperial armor rules are allowed in tournament play?? If not I could always make it a demolisher or something.

Elite 1: 5 vets (lasguns), 1 sarge (storm bolter), 1 autocannon.
Is just a little deterant idea, hopefully can just place them somewhere the opponent wouldn't think infiltrators would pop up, maybe scare a vehicle that thinks an autocannon could bite them in the rear/side.... or just draw fire from others.

Elite 2: 9 vets, shotguns plus frag grenades
1 sarge, Honorifica, power fist/Bolt pistol
After reading of the "hidden power fist" on other list critiques, I just couldn't avoid using it. Would most people consider the shotguns a better choice for assaulting then pistol/CC?? Also, I took the frag grenades thinking they'd be useful for guys along for the ride with the power fist monster, giving them some use in both assualting heavy weap teams dug in and vehicles/artillary (as they can infiltrate, maybe they could scratch rear armor?? If I am wrong or others have tried this please let me know its a bad idea.

Alrighty, thats it. I've been extremely impressed with the detailed advice on the other lists, is good to see that those in the know really dig through the lists.... the advice I got from those helped shape mine alredy without buying a single model or playing a single round (like hidden pwr fist, sharpshooting heavy weaps ect.). I tried to get enough boots on the ground, while still getting some armor and versatility. Would love to have any glaring army weakness's pointed out before I plunk down the dollars. Thanks for your time!!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by nova9

OK, I have not played in about 8 years (military time) and am wanting to start an army up. I have the codex, and am making a list before buying an army. I would love to get feedback and a few clarifications on if I'm orginizing my units incorrectly before I purchase an army. Oh, this is a 1500 point list, as the threads make that appear to be the norm.

Doctrines: Vets
Sharpshooters
Iron discipline
Special weapons squads
conscripts

HQ1: Colonel/Commissar gaunt.

HQ2: Senior officer+pwr weap+Bolt pistol+iron discipline.
Troops have CC weap and pistol

+++ go for a heroic senior officer for the extra point of Ld... otherwise you may as well save pts and stick to a plain 'ol junior officer as the senior officer gains nothing over him! (aside from 1W which isn't nearly as important as that +1Ld!)
do something with those grunts! command squads can become small, hard-hitting special weapon teams in their own right! a favourite combination for the HQ squad is a standard bearer + flamer + mortar team. now you can sit out of sight, still lob a template each turn which also pins and you have a flamer for hoard control...+++

2x Fire support squad: 3 autocannons +sharpshooter

1x anti-tank: 3 lascannons + sharpshooter

2x special weapons squads: pistol+c.c weap + demo charge

+++ demo charges need a special deployment option to be usefull... too many opponent's know the damage that little bundle can cause! add to that the fact that a 6-man squad is an easy target...
i'd find some way to work either light infantry or drop troops into your doctrines if you want to keep these guys.
your only real tactic for these guys right now is to hold them back out of sight and use them as a counter-punch...+++

Troop 1: Senior officer + Pwr weapon + bolt pistol + iron discipline
(there is verbage in the infantry platoon section that has me confused, am I allowed a senior officer here or does it have to be junior??

+++ nope, you can only have a junior officer leading a platoon... (note it says, "a junior officer and his attendant staff")
again, have the grunts serving the officer do something... your command squads should fill in the gaps to help better compliment your infantry squads. (ie: a rocket launcher shooting a tank in a 10 man squad wastes 9 guys, but only 4 men in a com squad!)+++

squad 1: vet sarge and flamer

squad 2: Vet sarge and flamer

squad 3: vet sarge

+++ at least give the vets a bolt pistol or a bolter! it's only 1pt!!! better yet, tack on melta bombs and surprise that poor enemy dreadnought in an assault he thought he'd easily win!+++

squad 4: plain baby, just plain
+Chimera (multilaser, Heavy bolter+smoke launchers+netting)

+++ you can't give a chimera to an infantry squad. if you want the transport, then make this squad into an armoured fist squad.
i'd give them a meltagun in order to hunt down armour or a plasma gun for some meq punch.
also, consider taking 2 heavy bolters on the chimera. that's 6 S5 ap4 shots instead of 3 S6 ap6 + 3 S5 ap4 shots... while it may seem like marines are everywhere, there's still plenty of troops out there with 4+ saves! those heavy bolters simply have alot more punch to them! you could also add on a pintle heavy stubber for an additional 3 S4 ap6 shots as well...+++

Troop 2: 3 squads of conscripts
Here is my 2nd and 3rd question, am I correct in that I do not need a little HQish command squad to head the conscripts?? And also, am I correct in believing that the super-cool colonel gaunt can lead this rabble??

+++ nope, no command squad allowed here! and yes, gaunt can join this unit as he's an independent character!+++

Heavy 1: Lemun Russ Executioner +3 heavy bolters + netting + searchlight
Ok, I lOVE the rules for this tank as I understand them, and plasma is very cool, but can someone tell me if imperial armor rules are allowed in tournament play?? If not I could always make it a demolisher or something.

+++ typically 99% of tournaments don't allow forgeworld models/rules... sad i know, but thems the breaks.
just make your turrent remove-able so you can swap out between the regular 'ol battle cannon and the extecutioner turret!+++

Elite 1: 5 vets (lasguns), 1 sarge (storm bolter), 1 autocannon.
Is just a little deterant idea, hopefully can just place them somewhere the opponent wouldn't think infiltrators would pop up, maybe scare a vehicle that thinks an autocannon could bite them in the rear/side.... or just draw fire from others.

+++ vets shouldn't have heavy weapons... they need to stay mobile to survive because they're very tempting targets! (most people fear BS4 units in a guard army!)
keep them to special weapons. one idea would be to give the sergeant a plasma pistol and take 3 plasma guns in the squad. makes for a nice mobile little meq killer! also make sure you take at least 8 men as they'll still die quite fast being only T3 w/5+ save!+++

Elite 2: 9 vets, shotguns plus frag grenades
1 sarge, Honorifica, power fist/Bolt pistol
After reading of the "hidden power fist" on other list critiques, I just couldn't avoid using it. Would most people consider the shotguns a better choice for assaulting then pistol/CC?? Also, I took the frag grenades thinking they'd be useful for guys along for the ride with the power fist monster, giving them some use in both assualting heavy weap teams dug in and vehicles/artillary (as they can infiltrate, maybe they could scratch rear armor?? If I am wrong or others have tried this please let me know its a bad idea.

+++ yep! nice and tasty he is. i like to take a mix of shotguns & ccw's in my own unit... add on to this 2 meltas & 1 flamer for some heafty offensive punch before an assault. again, melta bombs on the sergeant as well for when that tank tries to mug you!+++

Alrighty, thats it. I've been extremely impressed with the detailed advice on the other lists, is good to see that those in the know really dig through the lists.... the advice I got from those helped shape mine alredy without buying a single model or playing a single round (like hidden pwr fist, sharpshooting heavy weaps ect.). I tried to get enough boots on the ground, while still getting some armor and versatility. Would love to have any glaring army weakness's pointed out before I plunk down the dollars. Thanks for your time!!

the big problem i see right now is lack of anti-meq punch... face it, you need an entire platoon to make any kind of dent on even a basic tactical squad! use your platoon command section/s and vets to hoard plasma guns. the command squad especially as you pack 3 plasma guns + medic to help reduce the pain of overheats!

also, there's a bit of a lack of mobility... you've got 2 infiltrating units + 1 dedicated transport. ask yourself, 'what do i do if i'm playing a recon mission or escaltion is in effect?'... can you respond to multiple threats reasonably well with mainly foot sloggers?! as cool as gaunt is, he's eating up alot of pts... i'd lose him to tool out your command squads and add more vets to the first squad. maybe even try and get a cheap sentinel in there!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[nova9]

Very nice, loads of info. I did keep the units very bare bones, as I was trying to get 6 full units of "boots on the ground" as I had read was a good idea. I could scale back some on gaunt and maybe drop a unit and use those points to better equip the others. I also could drop my little vet squad, the vet doctrine and pick up drop troops... I hadn't even thought of using the special squads with demo's for that , could be scary. The sentinals were the next thing I'd wanted to add, but didn't see a way to put them in, I had wanted 2 with multilasers (don't know why, I like multilasers).

[experiment 626]

autocannons are better. S7 ap4 heavy 2. lovely! you can hunt smaller infantry units like those scout snipers who tend to be only 5 or 6 man squads, plus the autocannon is the single best weapon for downing skimmers!

cheers!

[nova9]

Couple quick follow ups.

1. Whats this about medics?? I can't find medics mentioned anywhere in my codex, can someone tell me what page to look at cause I don't see em.

2. Ok, Meq means marine equivalent right?? So to negate their armor save I'd need 3 or less for AP... so wouldn't a heavy bolter still give you less of a chance to kill MEQ then a multilaser?

3. Armored fist squads, they don't go in an infantry platoon? So are they an entire troop selection on their own, even though they are a squad and not a platoon?

4. Although not addressed here, I've always wondered how Chimera's lasgun ports work. Since they are 3 to a side and you still have to have a vehicle fire at the same unit, wouldn't that make only 3 of them usable in any given turn max?

5. After looking I should use the HQ platoon for some more weapons, and the mortar sounds nice for the pinning. Is it only weapons that say ordanance that use the big blast marker though??

[Steellegioncpt]

Originally Posted by nova9

Couple quick follow ups.

1. Whats this about medics?? I can't find medics mentioned anywhere in my codex, can someone tell me what page to look at cause I don't see em.
Medics allow you to ignore the first failed armour save once per turn
2. Ok, Meq means marine equivalent right?? So to negate their armor save I'd need 3 or less for AP... so wouldn't a heavy bolter still give you less of a chance to kill MEQ then a multilaser?
yes
3. Armored fist squads, they don't go in an infantry platoon? So are they an entire troop selection on their own, even though they are a squad and not a platoon?
Yes they are an entire different choice. However for every one AFS you need a platoon
4. Although not addressed here, I've always wondered how Chimera's lasgun ports work. Since they are 3 to a side and you still have to have a vehicle fire at the same unit, wouldn't that make only 3 of them usable in any given turn max?
In order for them to work you need troops inside. SO if its empty they cant fire. (sorta dont understand the rest of the question)
5. After looking I should use the HQ platoon for some more weapons, and the mortar sounds nice for the pinning. Is it only weapons that say ordanance that use the big blast marker though??
Yes only weapons like the battle cannon that say ordanance use that big template.

For starters: I take it that this is your first list I see things like sharpshooters Senior officers in your infantry platoon and such.

Here is a few tips (now these are tips not offical rules and what not)

All your guard infantry squads should have Las/Plas combo be that your heavy weapon is the lascannon and your special is a plasma gun Nothing else should be in the squad

If you must take a Senior officer or HSO use the Honorifica and give it to a Junior Officer you save 5 points from the original cost of a HSO.

Dont take doutrines such as sharpshooters, camoline cloaks etc. You want your infantry to be at base cost as much as possible MORE MEN = Guard Army

Finally if your taking hardened Vet. Squads the best thing to do with these guys is take them 5 men with 3 meltas Deep strike them (being a suicide squad) THIS is the best tactic that I ever used

btw having 3 plasma guns and a medic in a platoon HQ squad and deep striking them is a good thing too (even having 4 is awesome)

I've been playing guard for 6 years heed my words

cheers

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by nova9

Couple quick follow ups.

1. Whats this about medics?? I can't find medics mentioned anywhere in my codex, can someone tell me what page to look at cause I don't see em.

+++ the medic option is only availiable to command squads. under the entry about upgrading guardsmen to veteran status, note the following; "one veteran may be upgraded further to a medic for +x pts."+++

2. Ok, Meq means marine equivalent right?? So to negate their armor save I'd need 3 or less for AP... so wouldn't a heavy bolter still give you less of a chance to kill MEQ then a multilaser?

+++ you want plasmas and rocket launchers for anti-MEQ.
the heavy bolter is all round better because of it's ap4. not everything in the game wears power armour... pack as many ap4 guns as you can, thus the only troops getting saves will be MEQ's making target choice dead simple! (ie: if it's going to get a save - shoot it with plasma!)+++

3. Armored fist squads, they don't go in an infantry platoon? So are they an entire troop selection on their own, even though they are a squad and not a platoon?

+++ armoured fist squads are a seperate Troops choice and thus use up a slot on the FOC.
you must however keep a 1:1 ration between infantry platoons and armoured fist squads! (ie: if you have 2 infantry platoons, you can have 0-2 armoured fist squads.)+++

4. Although not addressed here, I've always wondered how Chimera's lasgun ports work. Since they are 3 to a side and you still have to have a vehicle fire at the same unit, wouldn't that make only 3 of them usable in any given turn max?

+++ the lasguns may shoot at a different target as they are fired by the guardsmen and not the tank crew.+++

5. After looking I should use the HQ platoon for some more weapons, and the mortar sounds nice for the pinning. Is it only weapons that say ordanance that use the big blast marker though??

+++ not totally... there's a few guns out there which use the large blast template which are not actually counted as ordinace. (the tyranid barbed strangler for example)
when looking at the weapon profile, note the difference between 'ordinance' and 'large blast'.+++

Here is a few tips (now these are tips not offical rules and what not)

All your guard infantry squads should have Las/Plas combo be that your heavy weapon is the lascannon and your special is a plasma gun Nothing else should be in the squad

+++ see, i personally hate putting lascannons into infantry squads... why? well, guardsmen are all about specialising to 1 role. your infantry squads excell at killing enemy infantry. give them guns to better compliment that role! thus, heavy bolters or autocannons work well.
plus, if you do shoot at that tank with your one-shot weapon and miss, then you've just wasted 9 good men for absolutely nothing!+++

If you must take a Senior officer or HSO use the Honorifica and give it to a Junior Officer you save 5 points from the original cost of a HSO.

+++ however, in this case, that honorifica is being used elsewhere!

but yes, never ever use a senior officer as he's total garbage...+++

Dont take doutrines such as sharpshooters, camoline cloaks etc. You want your infantry to be at base cost as much as possible MORE MEN = Guard Army

+++ sharpshooters applied only to support squads is a good deal... they pack the weapons you want the skill to compliment and they pack them in numbers!
but yes, never give sharpshooters to anyone else as it's typically wasted pts... (the more men = better wins out here!)+++

Finally if your taking hardened Vet. Squads the best thing to do with these guys is take them 5 men with 3 meltas Deep strike them (being a suicide squad) THIS is the best tactic that I ever used

+++ hardened vets require some skill to use well. while it's all well and good to use them as throw-away tank-killers, you could just use a 5 man storm trooper unit who will do the same thing cheaper...
vets will overcome anything and they are also the one unit you can have multi-task and still be effective! (i typically take 8 vets w/power fist, 1 flamer & 2 meltas + a combination of shotguns and ccw's. they've never failed to be a real throne in my opponents' sides!)+++

btw having 3 plasma guns and a medic in a platoon HQ squad and deep striking them is a good thing too (even having 4 is awesome)

I've been playing guard for 6 years heed my words

+++ i've only guard for 3 years now, but i play a pure infantry drop troop army and thus i am totally mental!+++

cheers!