Doctrines???

[shadowhawk]

To do with the restricted doctrines, say im using steel legion, it says conscripts and storm troopers, does that mean the only troops im allowed to take are storm troopers and conscripts, no normal guards, or heavy weapons. just wondering.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

You can always use normal Guard infantry.
You buy the Stormtrooper and Conscripts doctrines in order for you to be able to use them in your army. You can get Stormtroopers as Troop choices if you buy the Grenadiers doctrine.

If I had an IG army my doctrines would be;

Hardened Fighters
Carapace Armour
Sharpshooters
Close Order Drill

This isn't really a cost effective IG army and the last trait would either be Veterans or Iron Discipline.
A right elite IG army that any Schola Progenium would be proud of!

[Houder]

i don't care what your taking always take close order drill and if you have a spare doctrine take iorn disipline

[historis]

I usually have:
Stormtroopers
Grenadiers
Carapace Armor
Heavy Weapons Platoons
Special Weapons Squads

Though sometimes I swap things out, and take cameleoline and light infantry.

[hairyyahoo]

i wonder if theres anyone left that plays the list without doctrines?

[Rogue_Banana]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

i wonder if theres anyone left that plays the list without doctrines?

Probrably roughly as many as those who play DE

Personnally, I think the developers just copied the idea of Doctrines into the space marine codex to make traits. They're not EXACTLY the same, but you can still see the similarites.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Rogue_Banana

Probrably roughly as many as those who play DE

Personnally, I think the developers just copied the idea of Doctrines into the space marine codex to make traits. They're not EXACTLY the same, but you can still see the similarites.

that, and the new traits are a rather bland and boring version of the unique legion rules from all of the index astartes articles...

cheers!

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by historis

I usually have:
Stormtroopers
Grenadiers
Carapace Armor
Heavy Weapons Platoons
Special Weapons Squads

Just checking, but you do know that do do NOT have to take the Stromtroopers RS in order to take Grenadiers, they are entirely seperate.
Afterall, Stormtroopers are trained far above and beyond guardsmen (for Inquisitorial use and they expect the best), whereas Grenadiers are simply slightly better trained guardsmen with slightly better equipment and armour.

[experiment 626]

which reminds me, you also don't need heavy weapons platoons in order to take the 0-5 support squads that come attatched to your hq platoon!
you only need the HWP doctrine, if you want to take the acctual heavy support choice of 1JO+staff and 0-3 support squads

one more point to keep in mind, all advisors automatically gain any relevent doctrines applied to the squads they join. (so a squad with light infantry and a commissar for example, can still infiltrate!)
the important thing to keep in mind is that all advisors are still classed as UC's, not IC's! (i think at least 7 out of 10 guard players don't realise this for some reason )

cheers!

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

which reminds me, you also don't need heavy weapons platoons in order to take the 0-5 support squads that come attatched to your hq platoon!
you only need the HWP doctrine, if you want to take the acctual heavy support choice of 1JO+staff and 0-3 support squads

Quite so.

It really is damn good that you can effectively have an entire heavy weapons platoon without filling any extra slots (HQ squad, SO with two HW teams; 2 Fire Support Squads; 2 Anti-Tank Squads; and a Motar Squad)

[historis]

I knew all that, but I use lots of HW and between 4 and 6 stormtrooper squads. More of everything is always better

[experiment 626]

have you ever considered using carapaced hardened vets in place of the elite storm troopers?! more special weapons and free infiltrate and deep strike too... (provided you take the drop troops doctrine of course!)

oh, and don't forget that hidded power fist for the vet sergeant too

cheers!

[hairyyahoo]

Originally Posted by Rogue_Banana

Probrably roughly as many as those who play DE

Personnally, I think the developers just copied the idea of Doctrines into the space marine codex to make traits. They're not EXACTLY the same, but you can still see the similarites.

yeah someone got lazy on that one, and it seems to me that many of the traits/flaws(?) are pretty useless. the one about not being able to take allies always makes me chuckle. "whats that, no inquisitors? oh well never use 'em anyway, so no real flaws for me!"

[Perturabo]

My regular Guard opponent takes the same few basic doctrines for his force everytime (I cant remember them but Ill get him to post them) he then just swaps about one of the choices depending on who he is facing-this allows him to keep with the background fluff he created for his army whilst allowing him tactical flexibility.

[experiment 626]

i've done something very similar where i've kept certain doctrines (like drop troops!) and then played around with others untill i get a good, tactically flexable mix

the first iteration of my guard use:
drop troops
priests
iron discipline
storm troopers
hardened fighters
suffice to say, this grouping didn't work out very well for me, and having hardened fighters on all my squads, while annoying for any smurf opponent was horribly expensive!!! the to the priest was killing more of my own guys than enemies so things needed to get changed!

the second version used:
drop troops
ratlings
iron discipline
die-hards
sharp shooters
this grouping worked out much better and my model count shot-up big time the main problems i had with it were the ratlings always starting all my tournament missions in reserves and again, sharpshooters while usefull at times, proved quite pts heavy overall...

the thrid try:
drop troops
special weapon squads
iron discipline
die-hards
close order drill
this has been the most flexible yet and my force had it's best tournament showing, going 3-3-0 over 6 games...

now however, i'm currently trying out the following:
drop troops
special weapon squads
techpriest engine-seers
iron discipline
close order drill
this set-up and a bit of re-tooling has allowed me the greatest flexablity yet, and my force now stands at a fearsome 114 infantry + 3 light vehicles at 1700pts!!!
granted i could get a helluva lot more infantry if i droped the allied inquisition stuff, but that would ruin the whole backstory for my force

cheers!

[historis]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

have you ever considered using carapaced hardened vets in place of the elite storm troopers?! more special weapons and free infiltrate and deep strike too... (provided you take the drop troops doctrine of course!)

oh, and don't forget that hidded power fist for the vet sergeant too

cheers!

I've considered it, but never actually got around to it. I just like hellguns too much. (I've been playing against Eldar and DE alot recently.)

[hairyyahoo]

i normally play guard without doctrinesjust to keep things simple but every now and then i like to throw in drop troops or light infantry just to spice things up a bit. when i do i usually add CoD and ID plus stormies and special weapon squads

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

i normally play guard without doctrinesjust to keep things simple but every now and then i like to throw in drop troops or light infantry just to spice things up a bit. when i do i usually add CoD and ID plus stormies and special weapon squads

wow! i honestly can't recall the last veteran player who didn't use doctrines 90-100% of the time

just goes to show that the most effective army is still always the basic one guess!

cheers!

[hairyyahoo]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

wow! i honestly can't recall the last veteran player who didn't use doctrines 90-100% of the time

just goes to show that the most effective army is still always the basic one guess!

cheers!

the basic guard list is actually alot more versitile than many players think it is. with no restriction on troop choices you can taylor it to almosst any playing style, and vox nets actually come in handy as you have no fancy doctrines like ID to fall back on

[lynxrpken]

well you can take whatever it just means you have to take those two docterins. BTW I like light infantry ad well sniper rifels are handy in IP