Help with Guard List

[Radeon]

Ok, so my friend wanted to start guard, and he got a bunch of discount models and "used" models. He wanted me to help him out with a list and some tactics, however I am a bit new to guard as well, so if you could give me some help that would be great. I understand the guard tactics decently: body count and all that jazz. What I need help with is making him a list and giving the list some basic tactics to follow. He is a big fan of Sharpshooters btw!

Many of the models attached below have yet to be constructed, so if you think a change to the list needs to be made, just say so.

Click on the Link at the bottom of my post to see the current list.

Feel free to tell me about changes that need to be made. My thoughts so far are to use the command platoon, both troop platoons, and 2 of the Russ tanks in a 1500 battle, also give sharpshooters to 2 or 3 squads.

Comments NEEDED!!!

[thebarnet]

how about some hevey wepons in your ig infanry squads but missles are always good as you can get 3 out of a normal hevey wepons box but other wise it's up to you

[Hespithe]

The use of Heavy Weapons is strongly suggested. The Support Squads are nice, but you'll need more in an IG army. Personally, I'd drop the Voxes from the army and the Force Weapon from the Psyker. I use Psykers too, but the Force Weapon is wasted on a Str3 model.

Generally, you'll want to have your squads perform specific functions, and hopefuly, to perform those functions at long range, lol.

In just a sec, I'll post up an article for starting/getting aquainted with IG that I wrote a few years ago...

[Hespithe]

Imperial Guard Overview:

The Imperial Guard army is one of the oldest, and most respected, armies in the game of Warhammer 40K. New and veteran hobbyists and gamers alike are drawn to the unique nature of the Guard, and with good reason. Not only can the Imperial Guard dominate the field of battle, but the Imperial Guard army can look darn good doing it, too.


Strengths

The vast majority of IG commanders will list the army’s greatest strength as one of two possibilities; Infantry, or Tanks.

For a basic trooper, the Imperial Guardsman does not seem like a great bargain, having mediocre stats at best, and coming equipped with a lasgun (often referred to as a ‘flashlight’ in recognition of the weapon’s damage potential), and flak armor (also, rarely of much use) as standard. Their biggest strength, and what some would comment as the IG’s biggest strength, is that a full 10-man squad, well equipped with a heavy weapon and an assault/special weapon, will average about 80pts. A full, well equipped, platoon of 55 men can run less than 500 points, while many opposing armies of 1500pts and more cannot boast as many models. This makes the IG a very resilient army, and more importantly for the enemy, this resilience makes the IG’s heavy weapons very difficult to silence.

For the tread-heads (or tank lovers), the only possible choice for the army’s greatest strength would be, of course, the Tanks of the Imperial Guard. The ability to field such a vast number of hard-as-rocks tanks without restricting your army to any specific playing style or theme is something to be considered when choosing and designing an army. Not only should the heavy support options of the various Leman Russ main battle tanks and Basilisks be considered, but also the fast attack options of the Hellhounds and Sentinels and the troop choices’ allotments of Chimeras. The amount of firepower these vehicles can unleash in a single turn of shooting can decimate an entire army twice the size. The sheer intimidation such an army imposes is often a telling factor during the game. And, for those who wish to use only tanks, the IG Armoured Company is always a strong alternative, though not always permitted in tournament play.


Weaknesses

In many minds, the poor abilities (stats) of the Guardsman are the weakest aspect of the IG army. This weakness is also what gives the army its unique flavor, and why so many gamers can empathize with the Guardsman’s plight. Others believe that the IG’s reliance on stationary heavy weapons makes for a weak force than can be easily overcome with stealthy tactics. Still, even more gamers feel that the IG’s reliance on vehicles to win a game is the IG’s biggest weakness, as so much of the army can be reduced to smoking hulks of twisted metal in a single round of anti-tank firepower. And while all three views are correct to some extent, the application of all three ‘weaknesses’ in an IG army will often negate each view. While not often successfully employed, the mutual support of the various units in an IG army will cancel out the most commonly exploited weaknesses in the army.


Difficulty of Play & Overall Competitiveness

The Imperial Guard has something to offer both the novice and veteran gamer. Defensive armies utilizing the ‘castle’ formation are often easier to use effectively than the ever popular and ubiquitous Space Marine armies, offering the opportunity to learn the various aspects of game play without suffering through defeat after defeat while progressing through the learning process. Drop Troop forces offer the same benefit, to a degree, while incorporating a bit more in-game excitement. For the veteran gamer, finding success with a Mechanized force should prove challenging against most opponents, as would a Death World Veterans (or Catachan) army.

Generally the IG is regarded as a hobbyist’s army rather than a gamer’s army. The IG can be quite competitive, though the army tends to be the favorite of those who love to convert and paint large forces rather than those who love to dominate the field of battle during tournament play. In truth, the army is very flexible and can perform well in both areas. Only effort and ability can determine just how far the army can progress. As for what some gamers would term ‘cheesy or beardy’, the IG Codex is considered to be very balanced and rarely is the target of such accusations.


Playing Style & Theme

The use of specific doctrines, or lack of doctrines altogether, can emphasize the playing style and theme of an Imperial Guard army. Just a few changes to the choice of doctrines can dramatically alter the performance of an army.

The ‘typical’ Imperial Guard performs best in defensive roles. A large fire-base of basic troops supported by heavy weapons squads and main battle tanks, rank up in a ‘castle’ formation which then dominates a large area of the gaming table by sheer volume of firepower. Small supporting squads of Rough Riders, Hardened Veterans, Ogryns, or Storm Troopers provide counter-assault capabilities. No doctrines are required to successfully implement such a playing style, though Sharpshooters and Close Order Drill are commonly found in such armies.

An all infantry army can make very efficient use of the Light Infantry doctrine, allowing the entire army to infiltrate into ideal positions before the first turn of the game. While still defensive in nature, infiltrating armies tend to be in the thick of things a bit sooner and will require more counter assault capability.

Armies equipped with the Drop Troops doctrine can deep strike entire platoons, armed with an assortment of anti-infantry and anti-tank weaponry, into the enemy deployment zone. Very offensive in nature, Drop Troop forces are excellent for taking objectives and making things generally difficult for the opposing army. The ‘risk verses rewards’ concept is a very real concern for commanders of Drop Troop forces, as poor timing, placement, or luck can spell defeat before contact with the enemy is achieved.

Mechanized armies are also possible, and an ideal way for tread-heads to incorporate infantry into their armies. Mechanized armies perform well in both defensive and offensive roles, having massed firepower, mobility, and armor in abundance. These forces tend to be smaller than most other IG armies, and must keep the reduction of enemy anti-tank capability in the forefront of their battle plan.

In addition to the options listed in the Codex: Imperial Guard, the IG are available to all Inquisitor Ordos codices currently published, as well as various ‘traitor’ lists such as the ‘Lost and the Damned’.


Sample Army Lists

Starting out with an IG army in mind is often a bit more difficult than with most other armies. The unique command and platoon structure of this army often limits what can be done at smaller point values. Though the choice of doctrines can greatly influence what can be done, a typical ‘Codex’ Imperial Guard force at 500pts might look a lot like the list below.

Imperial Guard Basic Regiment @ 500pts

Command Squad
-=-Senior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Laspistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ Standard, Meltagun, Missile Launcher Team

Infantry Platoon
-=- Junior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ 4 Flamers

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

Armoured Fist
-=- Fist Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun
--=-- Chimera w/ Multilaser, Hull Heavy Flamer

This small army contains the required one HQ choice and 2 Troop choices from the force organization chart. It maintains mobility with the Armoured Fist squad with Chimera, and boasts 40 infantry, 1 vehicle, and 5 scoring units in a tight little package.


After getting a feel for the army, and its capabilities, it will be time to expand. The most common opponents will often dictate which units are chosen, but such an army at 1000pts may look similar to this.

Imperial Guard Basic Regiment @ 1000pts

Command Squad (6)
-=- Senior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Laspistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ Standard, Meltagun, Missile Launcher Team
--=-- Sanctioned Psyker w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon

Storm Troopers (10)
-=- Sergeant w/ Helpistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Squad w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Deepstrike

Infantry Platoon (36)
-=- Junior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ 4 Flamers
--=-- Sanctioned Psyker w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

Armoured Fist (11)
-=- Fist Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun
--=-- Chimera w/ Multilaser, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour

Sentinel Squadron (2)
-=- Cadia-Class Sentinels w/ Autocannons

Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (1)
-=- Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters

The army, now at 1000pts contains 1 battle tank, 1 transport, and 2 scout walkers as well as 62 infantry. The total of scoring units is now 10. This army can now place a formidable firebase on the table while also keeping its mobility thanks to the deepstriking Storm Troopers, scouting Sentinels, and the Armoured Fist. More of the flavor of this army shows now that the Sanctioned Psykers make their presence known, adding a bit of random surprise to the game.


By the time the army is tournament ready, a force resembling the army listed below can be fielded to take on all comers and achieve victory.

Imperial Guard Basic Regiment @ 2000pts

Command Squad (7)
-=- Heroic Senior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Laspistol, Carapace Armor, Refractor Field
--=-- Command Squad w/ Standard, Meltagun, 2 Flamers
--=-- Sanctioned Psyker w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Priest w/ Power Weapon, Close Combat Weapon

-=- Anti-Tank Team (6) w/ 3 Missile Launchers
-=- Anti-Tank Team (6) w/ 3 Missile Launchers
-=- Fire Support Team (6) w/ 3 Autocannons

Storm Troopers (6)
-=- Sergeant w/ Helpistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Squad w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Deepstrike

Storm Troopers (6)
-=- Sergeant w/ Helpistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Squad w/ 2 Meltaguns, Deepstrike

Infantry Platoon (27)
-=- Junior Officer w/ Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ 4 Flamers
--=-- Sanctioned Psyker w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Priest w/ Power Weapon, Close Combat Weapon

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun

Armoured Fist (11)
-=- Fist Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Plasmagun
--=-- Chimera w/ Multilaser, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Infantry Platoon (27)
-=- Junior Officer w/ Power Fist, Laspistol, Carapace Armor
--=-- Command Squad w/ 4 Flamers
--=-- Sanctioned Psyker w/ Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon
--=-- Priest w/ Power Weapon, Close Combat Weapon

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher

-=- Infantry Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher

Armoured Fist (11)
-=- Fist Squad w/ Sergeant, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher
--=-- Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer, Hull Heavy Bolter, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Sentinel Squadron (2)
-=- Cadia-Class Sentinels w/ Autocannons

Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (1)
-=- Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters

Leman Russ Main Battle Tank (1)
-=- Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, Hull Heavy Bolter

The army above is more than capable of handling itself against most every opposing army out there. With 111 infantry, 6 vehicles and 18 scoring units, this army will be difficult to wipe out. The addition of secondary support elements, like the second Leman Russ, the additional Storm Trooper squad, and the fire support squads, just improve upon the firebase that was already there in the 1000pt list. The additional troop choices boost the resilience of the army while the Priests define the counter-assault mission of the units to which they’ve been attached. The army may not look impressive to many Space Marine players out there, but this happens to be my army list and has won multiple tourney games against several varied Marine armies.


Modeling & Converting Opportunity

Mordian, Valhallan, Tallarn, Cadian, Catachan, Death Korps, Elysian, and Praetorian are just some of the various models that are, or have been, in production to represent just the basic troop of the Imperial Guard. These models go a long way in representing the theme of an IG army, and can really make heads turn when displayed as a completed force.

The army also boasts some of the best vehicles in the game, with regard to both in-game performance, and modeling opportunities. With the various vehicles based off of both the Leman Russ and Chimera chassis, it can be quite difficult to fit one of each in a singe army. Toss in the various Sentinel designs, and such interesting tidbits from Tarantula sentry guns to the Imperial Navy fighters, bombers and transports, and the army has near limitless conversion opportunity.

[Radeon]

I had thought about adding heavy weapons to the squad mix. But I was wondering if that would hurt the squad, since the squads are meant to band together and shoot the hell out of the enemy infantry, yet the Missile Launchers and Autocannons are meant to take down tanks and the heavy infantry.

Everything I have heard about guard leans towards the idea of squad specialization, so I'm not sure if putting anti-tank and anti-infantry in the same squad would be a good idea... If you could talk about that a bit more though that would be great, as I am still trying to figure out how exactly a guard army works.

Also, the vox will be staying in the troops, partly because my friend really likes them, and secondly...I built them already >.<

[Rhaalidor]

I'd definitely add some heavy weapons to the squads. 3 Autocannons in one heavy weapons squad will be a great big target. I'd split the AC's up into the platoons, and the missile launchers as well. Also, if you take the heavy weapons squads, don't you need a Platoon command squad as well?

The Stormtroops look OK, as well as the Leman Russ, and the GK allies will add to the excitement. Figure out how to give the HSO a Plasma Pistol instead of the Laspistol. Other than these things, it's a workable list. If you put the HW into the Infantry platoons, and give out the requisite wargear, you can do 1750 points, easily.

[experiment 626]

a) never give plasma weapons to your precious yet very squishy JO's! you need them for one of 2 very, very imporant roles;
1) Ld boost. give them iron discipline and now you have a 24" base Ld8 which cannot really be modified unless you're drastically outnumbered in an assault!
2) bait! 9 out of 10 players will fall for it if you leave your 'valuable' officer and his mates as sitting ducks on your front lines! most people will want to knock them silly in close combat... you, being the cunning type, will have pulled your infantry 7" away from the officer, thus leaving a powerfull enemy assault unit in perfect rapid fire range of half your army!

b) always use support squads for your anti-tank needs! your infantry squads do one thing really well; kill enemy infantry. they shouldn't be wasted on tanks!

c) vox-nets are over-priced piles of crap... (trust me, i've crushed every vox-dependant army i've faced with either a 55pts sentinel or a 36pts remnent squad deep striking the master-vox!)

d) always specialise your units to fullfill a single role. we're not marines! we don't multi-tast worth *****! pick a single role for a unit and equip it to match...

e) never, ever feel bad about sending a squad out on a suicide mission! remember, if you lose 10 men to achive a goal, you still have another 70 or so men to fullfill the overall objective!

cheers!

[Bremmer925]

First off, give all your officers bolt pistol and power weapon.You don't want your zeros smoked by their own weapon. You should also take all of the lasguns out of your HQ squads as it looks like you are planning to use them for your counter charge units. Give them pistol and close combat weapons so you can shoot then charge. Also give them frag grenades.
Have you considered taking 1 squad from each platoon to form an armored fist squad and a veteran squad. The stormtroopers would be a good support for your terminators if you give them deepstrike and the armored fist could support your Leman Russ. This would also give you additional units to take objectives. If you can, give the vets a lascannon and 3 plasma rifles or grenade launchers so you can try to infiltrate on an enemy's flank.
You NEED to give your vehicles smoke launchers and extra armor to improve their survivability.
I would also advise you to take heavy weapons in your line squads. Good combinations are rocket launcher/ grenade launcher or autocannon/ plasma rifle. They both give you a respectable AT ability if you need it ( especially against side armor) and a compliment to your lasguns against any infantry. The first option is good against horde armies and the second works well against high toughness ones. Lascannons are best in AT squads since the weapon costs the same as a squad weapon ( the rocket launcher costs 5 points more).
You can add a remnant squad to each platoon to act as a speed bump or as additional counter charge. Give them a flamer and a shotgun for the sergent, and put them ahead of your main line. The enemy will have to spend a turn shooting at them or you will block his charge on your line with it.
Sharpshooters can be good, but watch out for its cost. Usually it is best to use it in your supprt squads but not in the line units. You can also use it in your HQ squads to improne your close in shooting before you charge.
You have the doctrines of sharpshooters, psykers, and stormtroopers. Anything else? Priests could be an option for the countercharge use, or Iron Disipline to help rally your troops and keep them on the line. Another ( VERY MEAN) option is droptroopers and special weapon squads. Equip them with 2 x melta and a demo charge then watch the FUN! Hit enemy vehicles from the rear or take out terminators with them. They can also be used to take objectives. Sentinals can also be used this way.
Parker

[lynxrpken]

Originally Posted by Radeon

Ok, so my friend wanted to start guard, and he got a bunch of discount models and "used" models. He wanted me to help him out with a list and some tactics, however I am a bit new to guard as well, so if you could give me some help that would be great. I understand the guard tactics decently: body count and all that jazz. What I need help with is making him a list and giving the list some basic tactics to follow. He is a big fan of Sharpshooters btw!

Many of the models attached below have yet to be constructed, so if you think a change to the list needs to be made, just say so.

Click on the Link at the bottom of my post to see the current list.

Feel free to tell me about changes that need to be made. My thoughts so far are to use the command platoon, both troop platoons, and 2 of the Russ tanks in a 1500 battle, also give sharpshooters to 2 or 3 squads.

Comments NEEDED!!!

some things to remember are that as 626 said use specialized squads. know the Job of every man in the army. if you do this right not a lot else matters. here are some of my oppinions.
1 I like using plasma in officers squads but when I do I use them with all of the members of the squad. a jr officer with a plasma pistol and 4 gaurdsmen with plasma guns which can rapid fire are scary. great at tank hunting and HQ killing if the HQ has S 6 or under.

2 I do not play with heavys in my squads I feel the move or fire rule affects the overall effectivness of the force as a whole. but if you are not going to put them in the squads you need more support either from more tanks to provide cover fire for the troops or a chimera or two more.

3 never take multilasers they are only great at killing gaurd and even so for them same points you are better off still with the HB

4 if you have the points ratlings are nice in numbers because the 2+ hits and 4+ wound no matter what thing. this means a squad of 10 will likley take out a HQ in one turn even if it has 3 wounds.

all in all I think it is a good list. that being said consiter getting rid of the knights. gaurd is what it is do not try to sublet CC to a better equiped unit. take more guns that is there thing.

just a thought

[Radeon]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll try and read into them more a bit later, and re-work the army list!

[135th Armenian Rifles]

Originally Posted by Radeon

He is a big fan of Sharpshooters btw!

Well it depends what kind of guard you taking, ratling, catachans and vostryans snipers are all elite choices, BUT if you use the light infantry doctrine, available to any guard unit without a transport, it gives an extra die in rough terrain movement, may infiltrate if mission permits, and if they are a normal infantry platoon squad that chooses not to take a heavy weapon a single guardsman can be upgraded at 5 points to carry a sniper, so instead of using the other snipers for this choice you would use my favorite CADIAN SNIPERS! and the squad would count as a troop choice, great with mortars to screw up enemy infantry.

does anyone else besides me actually use these bamf looking models.

[thebarnet]

also don't drop vox's they rock they are relly useful the cost of them may add up but theycan stop you men form running off