how many imperial guard in the whole army

[Astrotrain]

Okay guys a space marine may be a gung ho bas ass but one battle cannon shell
aimed anywhere near him turns him into a red smear on the floor.The way you space marines players talk,You'd think the Guard could never take on a SM army on TT.
The number of baneblades may be disputed but there are many more leman russ tanks than there are marines.If this "war" happened I think guard Generals would react with out standard troops and equipment Seeing how this war would involve the entire guard.Theres more specialists in the guard such as drop troops on par to scouts in terms of weapons and equipment tanks,commissars.than there are marines.

@ Warmaster Romulas if a terminator teleports on to a tank and merges with it it will die.Theirs records of this happening in the SM codex.

@Lord Commander Erus in chapter appoved 2003 it seemed that ALL kreig troopers are willing to die in service of the emperor and volunteer for suicide missions often.

@Baron Spikey super heavy companys may not only contain baneblades but maybe all forms of Super heavy tanks.But I'm not 100% sure on this though.

numbers in war always made a victory.I don't like this but its ture by history's account.The Russians Vs the Germans in the second world war,Vietnam,Iraq currently (though this war is currently going on,High tech is losing the war of attrition)

[all-lucky7777]

Originally Posted by Ichor

Where did I mention an Exterminatus?

You didn't, that was me, sorry. Erus is right, the Inquisition is the only political body of the imperium that can order Exterminatus. That does not mean the grey knights can. If they are count as space marines they are not counted as being under the control of the Inquisition and therefore don't have weaponry capable of destroying a planet. This is simply because we are not involving the inquisition, but we are involving space marines. Right?

Don't they just 'glass' the planet? I.e. strip it of atmosphere, but not destroy it?

[Baron Spikey]

exterminatus is generally performed in one of two ways:

1) the planet is virus bombed, destroying ALL life and after a short a while once the gases caused by such huge decomposition has spread enough high explosive 'fire' bombs are dropped to ignite a global fire storm.

2) cyclonic torpedos are fired at the planet which penetrate its crust and initiate devastating global seismic/volcanic action.

I know I've been rather combative in this debate but I like to think I've not crossed the line into personal insults- so please don't resort to flaming each other or I will simply close this thread. (not pointing a finger at anyone in particular here).

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by all-lucky7777

You didn't, that was me, sorry. Erus is right, the Inquisition is the only political body of the imperium that can order Exterminatus. That does not mean the grey knights can. If they are count as space marines they are not counted as being under the control of the Inquisition and therefore don't have weaponry capable of destroying a planet. This is simply because we are not involving the inquisition, but we are involving space marines. Right?

Don't they just 'glass' the planet? I.e. strip it of atmosphere, but not destroy it?

Sadly, the Grey Knights ships are Inquisitorial grade stuff. So it'd only make sense they'd have the same payload.

[Warmaster Romulas]

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

Okay guys a space marine may be a gung ho bas ass but one battle cannon shell
aimed anywhere near him turns him into a red smear on the floor.The way you space marines players talk,You'd think the Guard could never take on a SM army on TT.
The number of baneblades may be disputed but there are many more leman russ tanks than there are marines.If this "war" happened I think guard Generals would react with out standard troops and equipment Seeing how this war would involve the entire guard.Theres more specialists in the guard such as drop troops on par to scouts in terms of weapons and equipment tanks,commissars.than there are marines.

@ Warmaster Romulas if a terminator teleports on to a tank and merges with it it will die.Theirs records of this happening in the SM codex.

@Lord Commander Erus in chapter appoved 2003 it seemed that ALL kreig troopers are willing to die in service of the emperor and volunteer for suicide missions often.

@Baron Spikey super heavy companys may not only contain baneblades but maybe all forms of Super heavy tanks.But I'm not 100% sure on this though.

numbers in war always made a victory.I don't like this but its ture by history's account.The Russians Vs the Germans in the second world war,Vietnam,Iraq currently (though this war is currently going on,High tech is losing the war of attrition)

when I say on i mean near
of couarse if they teleport ON them they will die DUHHH
no body said anything about russ tanks out numbering marines
super heavy regimentsmean just that
other wise they'ed be called baneblade regiments
ok for one this is a fluff arguement not a TT one
if the krieg voulenteer for suicide missions does that make them brave or stupid?
if you are going to quote history
do you really think the russians would have won if there wasnt a western front?
did the army lose the vietnam war or the politicians?
the guard is all politics
partial post deletion- do not post about political view points that may incite non-constructive argument

and what you guard supportes refuse to realize is the numbers of the guard are its down fall
i cant stress the supply angle enough
marines are masters of surgical war
plus the marines dont politicize their military actions
all they would have to do would be to get one key general and the rest would fight over the spot

[sion958]

ok i am going to say a few things



stop flaming each other
if the imperial guard were to fight they would attack macragge first then when the ultramarines rush to protect their pretty little homeworld the imperial guard will capture the remaining planets of ultramar

There are at least 391 catachan regiments, at least 898 cromaryn regiments and at least 211 mordian regiments

in the imperial guard codex it says there are billions of men from a million different worlds.That means that there are at least a million worlds that are garrisoned by imperial guard.

And to those of you who say the emporer will revive and destroy everything lets just say the imperial guard got sneaky stole a inquisition ship (or was given one) and performed an exterminatus on terra.

[Warmaster Romulas]

are you sure about that?
you know the us army's most famous units the 82nd airborne "the All Americans" and the 101st airborne "screaming eagles"
were is the 1st through 81divisions and the 83 though 100?
they are just unit names and distinctions
keep that in mind when you say there is 391 regiments of catachans
there might have been 391 total but how many active?

[sion958]

i didnt say there were 391 catachan regiments i said there were at least that many.

The space marines wouldnt be able to resist defending their homeworlds against attack

Look at the tyrannic wars on macragge.The moment the ultramarines heard of it they sent the whole chapter to defend the planet.A well aimed viron bomb and boom!!! the largest chapter destroyed

[Warmaster Romulas]

Originally Posted by sion958

i didnt say there were 391 catachan regiments i said there were at least that many.

The space marines wouldnt be able to resist defending their homeworlds against attack

Look at the tyrannic wars on macragge.The moment the ultramarines heard of it they sent the whole chapter to defend the planet.A well aimed viron bomb and boom!!! the largest chapter destroyed

thats a whole other can of worms
if they virus bombed Macragge
how are they gonna get there?
i thought the inquisition had control over planet extemination

[sion958]

what do u mean how are they gonna get there?

they dont just position a fleet above the planet and destroy any space marine ships in orbit so the guard can escape the planet

[Baron Spikey]

A well aimed Virus bomb from which Inquisition ship, or are the Guard stealing from the Inquisition now?

At least 391 catachans regiments, but the question was how many are active? because I REALLY dont think Catachan could support the loss of population that would be necessary for that many regiments.

Many worlds tithe men to the Guard but not every world is garrisoned by them (unless your including PDF in the catch-all Guard). I believe the statement 'Billions of men from a million worlds' is just because it would sound better than 'Billions of men from a fair few hundred thousand worlds'- after all if there are roughly a million worlds and statistically speaking most of them must be uninhabitable (the chances of finding Planets that could support life are slim to say the least, even with terra forming).

[sion958]

in one of my above notes i specified that the imperial guard got hold of a inquisition ship.

[Baron Spikey]

how? and why couldn't the Space Marines simply do the same to the Inquisition or the Imperial Guard? After all the Adeptus Astartes are much better at boarding actions than even the most hardened of veteran Storm Troopers.

[Astrotrain]

I don't remember where I got this but I think its the 3rd rulebook.
It goes something like "there is less than one space marine for every planet in the imperium"

Now if there are billions of guardsmen what stops them from just going overkill on the space marines?


partial post deletion- do not post about political view points that may incite non-constructive argument

[Baron Spikey]

I didn't mean that only Baneblades will assembled into Super-Heavy companies/regiments, I was just implying that other SHs aren't as robust as Baneblades. Sorry for being obscure with my phrasing.

[Warmaster Romulas]

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

I don't remember where I got this but I think its the 3rd rulebook.
It goes something like "there is less than one space marine for every planet in the imperium"

Now if there are billions of guardsmen what stops them from just going overkill on the space marines?


partial post deletion- do not post about political view points that may incite non-constructive argument

its called strategy
do you think marines would fight the guardman on an open battle field?
dont think so
they would do what they were BRED to do
Take out the enemy supply line and C&C structure
cut off the head
and the gigantic body of the guardcant function

[Wakim]

Just to clearify something, you can`t 'exterminate' Terra.

There are SO many ships active all around it and there are SO many guns ON it and the moon is basicly one BIG weapons platform.

You`ll be lucky if there`s any pice bigger than a pack of matches left of your ship

[sion958]

so the ship in question orbitted terra posing as a inquisition delegation then without warning a big bomb is launched (viron bomb) and then everyone on terra is killed simple as

the ship gets destroyed after it destroyed the populace

Ok many people are saying the imperial guard wouldnt be able to get an inquisition ship but lets imagine it was given to ursakar creed as a gift for defending a imperial homeworld (doesnt make sense but pretend it happened

[Wakim]

:/ the bomb will barely leave the ship before it gets turned to dust.

We with our limited tech can melt rockets in mid air :/

Just think for a bit.

[sion958]

ok the ship fired a shell anihallating the imperial temple

fine it doesnt matter how the ship did it the point is the emperor is dead and cant be revived so he cant walk across the galaxy crushing planets or whatever people were saying

[Baron Spikey]

No. simply no. Get back on topic or I WILL close this thread.

If you wish to start a thread debating the likelihood of an attack being able to pierce Terra's defences then that fine but not in this thread.

[sion958]

so is the debate on who would win space marines or imperial guard on topic?

ok i have finished making my point on that subject

[Baron Spikey]

Not entirely but since you the OP suggested it and it wasn't more than a progression of the original topic it was allowed.

Destroying Terra/the Emperor has no connection to this thread other than the tenuous link that a ship commandeered by the Imperial Guard would do so.

[sion958]

ok thank you for clearing that up spikey

[Ichor]

Baron Spikey, please don't critsize me for taking guesses and generalizations when you have as well. How do you know that so many worlds are uninhabited? In 40k, we are a pretty hardy race. Catachan, Krieg, Armageddon, and Cadia are pretty much places where we don't want to live, and yet prople colonised those. There are even worlds that are entirely underseas and are occupied by humans. (It was in the online Eye of Terror Map.)

I still stand by my opinion of trillions of guardsmen. If the Gurad only have a few hundered thousand worlds, the Imperium would be screwed. We'd only be left with a few million guard that pretty much can't be spread that thin throughout the Imperuim.

[Baron Spikey]

Ok I'll clarify my statement (and since this is a fictional universe its impossible for me or any of us to KNOW).

The number of planets that are uninhabitable, and I dont just mean unpleasant, far out number those that are inhabitable. You make a good point about planets that have specialised habitats allowing human life to get a foothold but most of these places are really anomalies rather than standards for large populations. I'm not really going to account a mining or research station on any number of planets as viable IG recruiting pools.

How would the IG be screwed if there was only hundreds of thousands of worlds that the IG tithe from rather than a million? even if each planet only provided a regiment of a thousand men and we said there were only a hundred thousand recruiting planets that would still amount to 100 million guardsmen.