how many imperial guard in the whole army

[Ichor]

Originally Posted by Warmaster Romulas

no body is saying that marines are assasins
nobody said it would be ONE marine doing it
but their way of warfare would be to take out this portion of the army first
and im sorry to tell there isnt a command center that can stop determined marines
think of this hypothetical war with your mind and not your heart
i dont argue that the guard have more men
but they have a very political command system and the marines know this
taking out several of the right generals would end the guards ability to fight against an enemy for YEARS while all the infighting to replace them and political manuevering for the open slots
if a marine captain or even chapter master falls
then there is a seamless transition of command

this Pact between the marines and the Admech is the tight bond that will drive them together
the same type of pact between the navy and the navigator houses

ok so the powercells of a lasgun is solar but what are they gonna EAT and Drink
those thing are more imprtant to a soldier than a fresh clip

if the marines dont see the emperor as devine
Why do they pray to him?
the admech worship the Ctan void dragon anyway

If you take out a Space Marine Chapter Master or captain, it's going to have an affect as well. The marines will suffer in morale and tactics for as replacements for them are extremely hard to come by.

For the Guard, how do you suppose the Marines will kill the "right" leaders? They're not going to stay around and get shot at. What's the chance of killing a warmaster of Lord General Militant? They'll be well protected and replacement generals are easier to come by.

[Wakim]

But that`s the point

Take out the leader and they come crumbling down.

Grece conquered every single country it met before its leader died, when he did they stoped fighting wars and the whole thing regressed back to a single nation.

Countless spontaious wars ended by one side`s rullers ending on the wrong side of a blade or a poisoned glass of whine :P

And what we`re talking about here is pretty much a spontanious war. Don`t forget that the main thing that keeps the empire going right now is the belife that the Emperor is still there, watching over them in one way or another.

If the IG open fire on SM (which the bulk of imperial citizens that were fed the Inquisitorial dogma considers them angels, messengers of the god emperor), they won`t be doing it for the emperor but for their current leader which they somehow fear/respect more than the emperor

[Ichor]

When where Space Marines assaisins? They're not meant to stealthily kill leaders.

[Warmaster Romulas]

your right
but how about a group of terminators teleporting right into the command center
that isnt very stealthy
but im sure it will get the job done
no body is saying they are assassin
did any one say assassinate the command structure
NO we said kill it or take them out

[Wakim]

Originally Posted by Ichor

When where Space Marines assaisins? They're not meant to stealthily kill leaders.

You need to read more sm fluff

Shriek hid on a planet full of orks for 2 whole years (was it more), and don`t give me the "orks are dumb" reply because they weren`t too dumb to kill every single non orky being on that planet or to shoot SM transports out of the sky or to kill a-lot-o marines and all the regular (read, IG) troops there.

But Shriek and his squad relied on stealth and precision and sabotaged everything they found

The index astertes is a book the size of your PC that explains countless ways to face the enemy in countless scenarios.


Being better makes the cut in a lot of cases

You should read about war world 2 hero tank crews or pilots that took out every enemy they encountered without being hit :P

First example that comes to mind is a German crew that took out a tank that outclassed it in just a few seconds. They were ambushed in a forest by a tank heavier tank that packed a much bigger punch, it also came from the behind (more to the right, but still, from the behind), the older guy heared it, gave a command that was 5-10 words long, the tank crew knew exactly what to do and 3 seconds later the enemy tank was a burning pile of scrap heap metal

Speaking of which, highly trained tank gunners maneged to hit the barrel of enemy tanks on the move more often than you`d think :/


As i were saying, quality really makes the difference.

As for Taking out HQs, teleporting Termies into a HQ isn`t something new, they`ve done it before.

History is full of stories of the few who defetead the many just because they did something better

PS Look into commando tactics and you`ll see just how few it takes to defeat the way too many.

[Ichor]

I have looked up a decent amount of SM info before. I've read the codex, Index Astartes III and IV, as well as various online sources.

Their sheer stubborness is their greatest downfall. Marines are known for countless last stands that resulted more often than not in a pyrrhic victory in which the SM all died. There are many of those incredibly stubborn or just plain mad marines, such as the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Blood Angels and their various succesors.

[Warmaster Romulas]

as opposed to the suicide missions You advocated to the guard
and itsnot countless
most stubborn things like that were rear actions allowing others to withdraw
big difference

[Astrotrain]

uh did all the guys on the marine side of the argument on the matter of "killing the generals and the automaton guard will shut down" forget how Creed,Yarick and others got to their position in the first place?Chaos, and other factions tried this but the chain of command in place prevented the breakup of guard command.

[sion958]

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

uh did all the guys on the marine side of the argument on the matter of "killing the generals and the automaton guard will shut down" forget how Creed,Yarick and others got to their position in the first place?Chaos, and other factions tried this but the chain of command in place prevented the breakup of guard command.

Yeh thats right i only just remembered.In the imperial guard codex it states that in the battle of tyrok fields chaos volscanis stormed over the governer primus of cadia and killed him.Did the cadians grow disorganised.No they just fought even harder and destroyed the chaos(with the leadership of creed and aid of the titans of the legio ignatum)

[Wakim]

See what you`re doing You`re bending fluff in IG`s favor

So you can aply unique events to the IG (as in Creed and Yarric) and ignore their "just send more dumb-dumbs in suicide missions" way of war, but on the otherhand the SM will ALL act like the space pups, blood angels or khorne berzerkerz

Yup, no bias there, none at all.


I honestly see no further reason in this discusion.

[Astrotrain]

Originally Posted by Wakim

I honestly see no further reason in this discusion.

Ding Ding! Space marines surrender and Guard is a Winnar of the internets!

honestly it was a dumb argument anyway guys.

[Wakim]

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

Ding Ding! Space marines surrender and Guard is a Winnar of the internets!

[Astrotrain]

Originally Posted by Wakim

dude that image is made of win.

[munkey joe paints]

Wakim.....You NEVER cease to amaze me......I R LUV N DA LOL CATS!!!

[Wakim]

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

dude that image is made of win.

Just the reason i`m using it

[Warmaster Romulas]

fish man you kill me with all the cat pics
i save them all for my wife
she loves them

[munkey joe paints]

hey Rom show her this:
LOL cats