My New IG codex wish list.

[325504503]

Ok So here are my ideas for a the new IG codex. This is just pure wishful thinking so please don't get to upset about any of my ideas.

1. Doctrines:
They stay but you have to get them in predetermined "sets" kinda of like if you use a famous regiment's doctrines. This should cut down on the min/max cheeseification of some IG armies. like having drop troops with mechanized, camelioline and close order drill!

This would enable you to model your regiment either mechanized, light infantry, drop regiment, human wave, combined arms or Shock troops.

1.5
Also drop the idea of restricted troops taking up doctrine slots. If it is in the codex you can bring it.

2 Vox Casters:
I would like to see a rule where if a squad has a vox and line of sight on a target, an indirect fire weapon can deduct not only their own BS but that of the observing squad as well. This would simulate Forward observers and how they are able to call in more accurate artillery strikes. There should be a limit of one squad with LOS to call for fire from one indirect fire piece to prevent stacking.

3 Lasguns:
They should be redesigned as either assault 1 with 24" range, assault 2 with 12" range or you should be able to select shotguns for your Guardsmen instead of Lasguns.

I hate the fact that semi-automatic rifles with bayonet lugs and pistol grips can't "ASSAULT" if they have fired in the shooting phase. Look at a lasgun and tell me it isn't an assault rifle!

4 Heavy weapons Squads:
Instead of Heavy weapons platoons, each Regular Guard Platoon should be able to select one Heavy weapons squad in lieu of an additional regular infantry squad. This Heavy weapon squad should get three heavy weapon slots and a SGT for the same cost as a regular squad plus weapons.

5 Morale checks:
For every additional squad or command squad with 12" of a unit should confer a +1 to the leadership value of the squad. This would have to be used instead of using either a vox or a close by officer's Leadership

6 Split fire:
If you purchase a Veteran SGT you would have the ability to split your squad's fire. This would be done by Passing a leadership test (internal leadership only) then they would be able to divide their fire between two targets as the owning player chooses.

Any thoughts?

[kenshin620]

Ehh, doctrines are already confirmed to be out but the way yours works kinda takes way the magic from them. I mean the doctrines you choose would make your army unique to some one elses and it feels more like building a sandwich than buying a packaged sandwich. Vox casters still seem useless and while were at it, lets make bolters assualt also. Everything else looks fine I guess.

[comrade]

egh..... I like the Lasgun the way it is, but wouldn't mind the shotgun part.

And All I want is to be able to use my independent Commissars. My Army design is so ****ed up if I cant have them!!!!!!

and maybe Chem inhalers..... and drop troops... I want all 3!!!!! aRGH...

[325504503]

Perhaps special equipment also shouldn't be considered part of the Doctrine system. If doctrines are confirmed out then I find it hard to believe that we won't be able to upgrade our guard with chem-inhalers, carapace etc.

As far as the Vox casters go I would pay easily pay 5 points to have the ability to knock of an additional three scatter inches for my basilisks and mortars!

Comrade, you bring up a good point, I don't see how I could stomach taking conscripts without my independent commissar attached.

[comrade]

the rumor mill have been saying that alot of the doctrines will instead become part of the upgrade choices of the squads (or maybe the platoon?)

For example they say that squads can now be put on chimeras as a choice.... instead of having armored fist squads.

and I think I may have heard something about droptroops being another choice you can have for them......

The only question is which ones are going to be included in the next dex.

And I hope to god they make advisors an elites choice for 3 which can then be placed in a single squad of your choice.. now that... I would be quite happy with.

[325504503]

Originally Posted by comrade

the rumor mill have been saying that alot of the doctrines will instead become part of the upgrade choices of the squads (or maybe the platoon?)

For example they say that squads can now be put on chimeras as a choice.... instead of having armored fist squads.

That may mean you will need a minimum of 3 chimeras to outfit a platoon, unless you can upgrade a single squad with a chimera.

Overall I have a positive outlook as to the changes down the road, however I would like changes that make the Guard a respectable adversary. I like the idea of taking a little of all the available troop choices without having to pay for privelage through doctrine points.

[JoeGuardsman]

Officers need to stop being independent characters. This is an absolute must. We have only one upgrade character powerfist and more importantly a 40 point Junior Officer unit is worth two kill points and makes my life miserable in Annihilate. I hope Commissars also stay as upgrade characters but I hope that you can choose where they go. Same with the other Advisors.

The restrictions on upgrading units to have a Chimera needs to go and I'm pretty sure it is.

Ogryns need access to one power weapon. They are not able to stand up to more elite units at all because they are not assured to cause a wound through higher armor saves. Then the unit is likely to break with the leadership modifiers.

Platoon drill sounds nice but I have yet in 2 dozen games to run into a situation where I would have found it useful.

Scaling back the minimum range on a Basilisk Indirect shot would be a nice wish to receive.

I just got back from a bad game so there are a lot of things that I want.

[325504503]

Originally Posted by JoeGuardsman

Officers need to stop being independent characters. This is an absolute must. We have only one upgrade character powerfist and more importantly a 40 point Junior Officer unit is worth two kill points and makes my life miserable in Annihilate. I hope Commissars also stay as upgrade characters but I hope that you can choose where they go. Same with the other Advisors.

The restrictions on upgrading units to have a Chimera needs to go and I'm pretty sure it is.

Ogryns need access to one power weapon. They are not able to stand up to more elite units at all because they are not assured to cause a wound through higher armor saves. Then the unit is likely to break with the leadership modifiers.

Platoon drill sounds nice but I have yet in 2 dozen games to run into a situation where I would have found it useful.

Scaling back the minimum range on a Basilisk Indirect shot would be a nice wish to receive.

I just got back from a bad game so there are a lot of things that I want.

I totally agree on the officer IC assault problem, I never take a powerfist with my officers because I can never keep them around. I just sneak one in on my hardened vet sgt with honorifica imperialis.

[Bremmer925]

I too would like them to leave doctrines alone. The "cheesy" lists that people complain about are just real life tactics put to use. Mechanized forces being supported by droptroops is the DEFINITION of combined arms. They will also take out the abhuman doctrines with them, which will really make the Guard more boring. The idea of being forced to conform to what someone else considers to be a "fun" selection is also quite gaulling.
The idea of forward observers is a good one, however, I think for game balance it would have to be an officer instead of a sergeant and only subtract the BS of the observer.
The lasgun will not be changed because too many players are used to it. It never made sense for a device that we use to cut steel plate today should become a weapon that can't cut butter in 38,000 years is a joke. Allowing an upgrade to a shotgun would be good, especially if we can get the STR 4 guns that the SM seem to be getting.
GW seems to have decided to base the Guard on WW II infantry, so heavy weapons are a company level weapon, hence the HW platoon. And, c'mon, people are already complaining about how many heavy weapons we get as it is.
The moral checks are a definite no-go. The Guard will never be allowed a uniform LD 10! They're grunts! Even SM don't have a uniform LD 10 and they are genetically enhanced supermen ( it would be fun to have LD 10 conscripts, however).
The split fire would be good, but then every other race would have to be given the same thing for game balance.
The officers will probably stay independent characters since all the other "leader" types are independent. We can still take commissars and priests as characters and get the " hidden powerfist/evisserator" and as long as we pay out points thru the nose.
The ogrin will never get a power weapon since they are considered too dumb, but why not give them rending? They have a higher STR than the SM and the ripper gun has a 2 1/2 foot piece of cold steel on it. Makes sense to me .
The rough riders need to go back to the lance being a one shot addition to the rider, who then gets pistol & ccw. The loss of a weapon as it is now makes them way too overpriced. They should also get any other upgrades that a stormtrooper unit would get since they are a more elite guardsman.
The 5th Ed rules are probably the deathknell of the armored fist squad, because you can take a chimera for the platoon now and put whatever squad you want into it on turn 1.
I would like for them to give us our vehicles back! Having the option to use missle launchers, rocket pods, multi-meltas and heavy bolters on sentinals wouldn't be imbalancing. Neither would auto cannons in the chimeras turret. The options for the Leman Russ are also not too bad compared to what other armies get. Who wouldn't want Manticores and Griffins back?

[JoeGuardsman]

Now that a heavy bolter isn't a defensive weapon I completely agree with the autocannon turret. I always thought it was a little too good in 4th. Just a little.

Ogryns with rending I'd be happy with. The Renegade Ogryns from Seige of Vraks had a power weapon option so I don't think it is too far fetched. I'd also be happy with Rending. We are the only army without it after all.

I think of myself as a good player but I've been playing 5th ed in anticipation of having no doctrines and I'm not having a good time with my games. Kill points are too easy to give up. Our CC is abysmal, which makes taking and retaining objectives impossible and we have nothing that works outside of the regular game rules which put us way behind other armies. I'm with GW and dropping the doctrines but we need some new rules to spice up our lives. Giving us more guns isn't going to help. We need shinier guns and some more fun options that don't rely on a regular set of dice rolls.

[325504503]

As far as our CC being terrible, that is fine by me. Now when a squad gets clobbered they are most likely going to be wiped out or running away. That leaves the enemy nice and exposed for rapid fire death. As long as the game isn't kill points, I will gladly swap one of my Guard squads for a Marine Tactical squad.

Hopefully the whole dropping doctrines item will merely make it possible to give each unit something different from our existing choices. Like giving one platoon Carapace, mechanized and chem inhalers and one platoon camelioline with light infantry, all within the same army. Of course you would have to pay the points to get them but you could really field a combined arms force with each FOS slot filling a specific role.

on a side note I hope they keep the Last Chancers, I love having the option to break up six or more models deep striking across the battlefield to give my opponents heartburn.

[comrade]

I digress.... Now all I want is Commissars I can place in any squad of my choosing..... and drop troops.. thats all.
don't see the last chancers buying it anytime soon, they have been in the last 2 dexes, so I am pretty sure they would stay, or maybe they will just become penal legionnaires, either way it still will be the same, somewhat.

But the idea of being able to split doctrines apart.. I'm almost sure the choices they will leave us will be of big diff.
I unfortunatlly see Chem-inhalers going away, and more then likely these will probably be the choice we will have:

Chimeras, Drop troops, Infiltrators, and maybe, just maybe Close Order, and maybe even Carapace armor. But thats about it. ok.. maybe camoline.

And officer will probably get some of the other docs as upgrades also, such as iron discipline,

[JoeGuardsman]

Cameleoline is definitely gone. They can not just throw Stealth around like that. I'm pretty sure that the only doctrines you will see are the ones that are required to be shown on models that GW itself makes. So mainly just Carapace Armor. I doubt that a Drop Troop Army is going to make it in. I never liked the doctrine, but only because it was free and powerful and I couldn't bring myself to use a poorly written rule.

Last Chancers might be in but which Last Chancers. Fun characterful Chancers or stupid broken Chancers.

You did remind me of my other great wish. Penal Legionnaires replace Conscript infantry. Give them a Special Rule along the lines of Stubborn in fantasy so that we have a unit that won't die first round every round. If they fail they have no chance of escape and automatically die as the explosive collars explode. I'd also like to see Human bombs come back. Anything that can make our list more fun than it is restrictive.

[comrade]

Camoline, maybe, But I highly doubt they would get rid of drop troops.

[JoeGuardsman]

We can all agree that the ability is going to cost at least a point this time around though.

[comrade]

yeah...more then likely, or remove Chimeras for a platoon choice, whichever.. or maybe both....

LMFAO.... Drop Chimeras.... now that would be a sight

[DuskRaider]

I'd like rules for Renegade IG, not just the ones from Forge World. Maybe something akin to the back of the WH codex, only not SO powerful

[JoeGuardsman]

I love the rules from forgeworld though. It isn't likely because of the insane amount of record keeping but I played with the doctrine once and it was awesomely fun. I already have one of the things that I wanted from Seige of Vraks and that was for Armored Fist Squads to be able to stay in reserve.

[hairyyahoo]

what would i like to see for the guard? honestly, as long as i can still have access to a couple of demo charges i'm a happy boy nothing like a str8 ap2 pieplate to bring a smile to my face. if i were to start wishing i'd have to say sanctioned psykers who can pick thier power would be top of my list. even if the choice were only 3-5 fairly weak but occasionally handy powers i'd be happy. as it stands SPs are next to useless with out the honorifica and a force weapon.

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah even though they went back to the random chart for Chaos Possessed I think that it is obvious that they have to fix Sanctioned Psykers. I take them just because I want to be cool but it is impossible to justify taking them. They also should not be allowed to take Honorific Imperialis as it just doesn't fit them. The two useless Psychic Powers have to change. No Useful Power of course being one and Lightning Arc being the other. Psychic Lash is also not very useful if they ever want us to give them force weapons. I'd like a psychic hood for them albeit an inexpensive one because I don't want to be forced to take an inquisitor to have some psychic defense in my army.

[325504503]

Man I am glad you guys mentioned the SP's because I totally forgot how crappy they are. A stat line of below guardsman is bad enough; then you pile on the ridiculously lousy powers that are in no way reliable and you have a the perfect storm for a bad game piece. It is a shame really because the models are fantastic in my opinion and I really enjoy painting and fielding them for pure fluff value.

[JoeGuardsman]

yeah today I rolled lightning arc for a psyker in a unit with a priest. I could never possibly use the power.

[Bremmer925]

The SP isn't the only advisor that needs a rework, they could all use one. 40 points for an armor zip model that takes away the use of heavy weapons but gives us a re roll on missed attacks we wont make is kind of stupid. The new rules mean even if we buy frag grenades, the other side strikes first.

The commissar is also vastly overpriced as is.

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah I don't really want anything changed on them other than the point costs. The psyker I'm willing to pay more points for if he would actually do something.

[hairyyahoo]

actually i thought lightning arch was one of the only power on the list that was right for a guard psyker. guard power shouldn't be to good since they are some of the weakest battle psykers in the imperium so a shooting power like that fits in nicely. the extended command bubble one also fits in well. imo PS powers should be something akin to eldar warlock powers but needing a test to use. re-rolling armour saves, re-rolling moral tests or allowing the command squad to get the advantages of defending cover in the assult phase would also be fairly good powers for a PS

totally with you on the psychic hood thin btw, but with their crappy ld i can't see it being much use