officer rip off

[SADA]

Dose any one else feel that the points cost for imperial guard officers is way too much,i mean 70pts for a heroic senior officer thats 10pts more than a chaos lord who is undoutably much better even with the 4 free human shields the officer gets.This is something that has been bugging me for a long time and i was wondering was it just me that felt they were too much

[experiment 626]

yes, and a tool-up chaos lord costs way pts than any ig officer!

besides, the true value of an guard officer is his leadership bonuses... honestly, how many player out there would love it if *they* could get a reletively cheap ability to rally squads that are below half-strength *and* ignore any negative moral modifiers?!!

guard officers aren't meant to be combat monsters - they're insperational leaders!

cheers!

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

yes, and a tool-up chaos lord costs way pts than any ig officer!

besides, the true value of an guard officer is his leadership bonuses... honestly, how many player out there would love it if *they* could get a reletively cheap ability to rally squads that are below half-strength *and* ignore any negative moral modifiers?!!

guard officers aren't meant to be combat monsters - they're insperational leaders!

cheers!

lol stitch speaks the truth.
*experiment 626 i mean

-ant

[Levin]

Gotta agree here. I hate taking Sr. Officers anyway, but if you look at the regular Jr. officer compared to an IG squad. The officer only costs 16 points. You get 4 guardsmen equalling 24 points + a 16 point officer What other army in the game has an HQ that only costs 16 pts.? Sure, he's just a regular guardsmen with some inspiring qualities, but then again, isn't that how it is in real life?

[experiment 626]

just be sure to at least always give your HQ officer iron discipline and give one of his mates the big company flag!

i garuntee if you spend the 16 pts for those two upgrades, you'll never be dissapointed with a guard officer again!

if you're really worried about your hq's combat potential, then look into getting a priest w/eviscerator! those re-rolls when you assault really make a difference, and best of all like all advisors a priest is counted as UC and so he can't be singled out!
for dealing with your opponent's troublesome IC's, try a sanctioned psyker w/honorifica & force weapon! it may be the oldest trick in the guard book, but it still works

cheers!

[Levin]

I like the idea of the psyker with Honorifica... Never thought of that.

[experiment 626]

even a S3 'pointy death stick' is to be feared! and if you can keep your unit lined up in close order drill formation, the psyker gets Ld9 for his psy test too!

cheers!

[Levin]

The problem is practicality. It sounds good on paper, but the more I think about it, who is this guy going to use his 'S3 pointy death stick' on? He's got crap stats even after the Honorifica boost and against multi wound models, he's probably never even going to get to attack (unless you do the charging). Unless you know your opponent is going to be feilding a lot of ICs or Thousand Sons, he seems like a waste of points. Your paying 63 pts for a model that more than likely won't kill anybody. Don't get me wrong, he is definately capable of doing serious damage under good conditions, but most opponents are going to smoke this squad before it even gets close. 63 points for a T3 5+ save isn't good. The instant death that is his one trick poney could more likely happen to him on the way to his target. Plus, hes a psyker. This means that a whole lot of armies have special abilities to dispatch him very quickly, and will get bonuses against him.

I see the validity of taking him as a novelty every now and then, but never as a must for an army like IG.

[hairyyahoo]

Yo to you all

IG officers, as said elsewhere, are there to boost the moral of the army and they do it fairly well all things considered. Taking a test on 8 rather then 7 can make all the difference to a humble guardsman. If you go for a HSO with a commissar to "support" him, coupled with a vox net, you effectively have an army with ld10 all round! Throw in Iron Discipline and a Company Rag and you'll never see a trooper run away again. All you have to do then is keep the big cheese alive!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Levin

The problem is practicality. It sounds good on paper, but the more I think about it, who is this guy going to use his 'S3 pointy death stick' on? He's got crap stats even after the Honorifica boost and against multi wound models, he's probably never even going to get to attack (unless you do the charging). Unless you know your opponent is going to be feilding a lot of ICs or Thousand Sons, he seems like a waste of points. Your paying 63 pts for a model that more than likely won't kill anybody. Don't get me wrong, he is definately capable of doing serious damage under good conditions, but most opponents are going to smoke this squad before it even gets close. 63 points for a T3 5+ save isn't good. The instant death that is his one trick poney could more likely happen to him on the way to his target. Plus, hes a psyker. This means that a whole lot of armies have special abilities to dispatch him very quickly, and will get bonuses against him.

I see the validity of taking him as a novelty every now and then, but never as a must for an army like IG.

well, the psyker has the advantage of being an 'upgraded character' so he can't be singled out...
a chimera can help with the mobility issues or else you could just hide the squad and wait to counter assault...

granted he's not the best or strongest fighty character out there, but for guard, he's pretty darn good! and this about the only real use for the sanctioned psyker as his powers are far too random to be practical and won't even be usable in 1 out of 6 games on average!!!

cheers!

[Levin]

I hear that. This has been the first idea that I've heard to date that even came close to convincing me that SPs were worth considering. Sure they're cheap, but superfluous too.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Levin

I hear that. This has been the first idea that I've heard to date that even came close to convincing me that SPs were worth considering. Sure they're cheap, but superfluous too.

when i think about it, 70 odd points for a 3-wound hidden character who can instant-kill multi-wound gribblies ain't half bad!

honestly though, i've never used the option as i perfer to waste about 3 times or more pts on a very charcaterfull, but horribly over-costed inquisitor lord.lol. (hey, i never said i was bright?!)

cheers!

[Levin]

nothing wrong with taking fun characters. I love my conscript unit. I themed them on a penal legion of 3 strike drug offenders. The Rasta Boys. That explains their lack of moral (crazy hallucinations) and inability to shoot (everythings all hazy... And they can't shake that feeling of the munchies)

[Stubber]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

besides, the true value of an guard officer is his leadership bonuses... honestly, how many player out there would love it if *they* could get a reletively cheap ability to rally squads that are below half-strength.
guard officers aren't meant to be combat monsters - they're insperational leaders!

Tau can rally squads below 50% for 5pts. They need access to the Armoury but who doesn't bring a Shas'ui for the fire warriors.

Marines can do it for free
AND
they don't need to take a morale check to do it
AND
They all get Ld9 or 10 for a commander who costs similar points to an IG senior officer
AND
The commander can easily be made into a combat monster even though the officer and his squad wouldn't stand a chance against the basic commander either in combat or shooting unless you decked out on melta and plasma weapons which would make the squad considerably more expensive than the commander.

AND (just for good measure)
The orks can bring a squiggoth for 70 odd points and no matter how inspiring the IG officers are that thing won't go down for a long time.

It's only the two Eldar, the Necrons (who still have we'll be back, monolith and are hard to bring down to begin with) and Kroot who can't regroup under half strength or do something to save the squad from falling back into oblivion(mobbing up etc.)

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by SADA

Dose any one else feel that the points cost for imperial guard officers is way too much,i mean 70pts for a heroic senior officer thats 10pts more than a chaos lord who is undoutably much better even with the 4 free human shields the officer gets.This is something that has been bugging me for a long time and i was wondering was it just me that felt they were too much

lets put it this way:
You say a basic Chaos Lord is cheaper than the HSO. Fair enough, but the Chaos lord doesn't cost 12 times the price of an individual space marine does it now.
He also doesn't automatically come with the same potential (SR:Leadership) at no extra points cost.
Nor does he come with 4 "meatshields" as you call them, at no additional cost. Then take into account that these 'meatshields' can be upgraded to be almost anything, from boosting the units Leadership abilities; to making it excell in combat; to arming it with 4 meltaguns and giving it a Chimera to go tank-hunting.

Yes, its a little bit pricey.
But when you consider the unit in the context of the army as a whole, then it fits perfectly.

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

and if you can keep your unit lined up in close order drill formation, the psyker gets Ld9 for his psy test too!

Wrong i'm afriad.

Only Infantry Platoons and Conscripts benifit from the COD.
I don't see how a psykers leadership would affect his ability to manipulate the warp. It just happens to be the characteristic that it gets tested against.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Heroka Vendile

Wrong i'm afriad.

Only Infantry Platoons and Conscripts benifit from the COD.
I don't see how a psykers leadership would affect his ability to manipulate the warp. It just happens to be the characteristic that it gets tested against.

well, if it's an infantry platoon command squad, then he does get the bonus as advisors always gain the benifits of any of the squad's doctrines!
Ld also takes into account not just how 'brave' a model is, but also his/hers/its mental fortitude/willpower so, it does indeed make perfect sense that higher Ld means the psyker is that much stronger

cheers!

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

well, if it's an infantry platoon command squad, then he does get the bonus as advisors always gain the benifits of any of the squad's doctrines!

fair enough, but how often are you going to have the correct combination of:

1. your command squad in COD.
2. your SP with a power that is useful in that kind of situation (presumably the 'let them come to you' tactic).
3. your command squad in the right place on the battlefield.
4. not have half your squad wiped out by a missile launcher.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Heroka Vendile

fair enough, but how often are you going to have the correct combination of:

1. your command squad in COD.
2. your SP with a power that is useful in that kind of situation (presumably the 'let them come to you' tactic).
3. your command squad in the right place on the battlefield.
4. not have half your squad wiped out by a missile launcher.

add-in drop troops... you land in close order anyways, plus you don't take a psyker for his powers (as they generally suck and are very random!) instead you take him for his pointy death stick and slap the honorifica on him for good measure! how many players are *really* not going to assault a squad of wee guardsmen given half the chance?!! (note that tau don't count, unless we're talking kroot )

or else you can simply hold the squad back out of sight and use them as a counter-assault unit... as long as all your men are in base-to-base, you get the benifits of COD and you can adopt the formation in either the movement and/or assault phase!

cheers!

[Heroka Vendile]

this is all true, theres always wee bits i forget (in this case the effect of deep striking when combined with that rare thing - a solid guard combat unit)

[Stubber]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

add-in drop troops... you land in close order anyways, plus you don't take a psyker for his powers (as they generally suck and are very random!) instead you take him for his pointy death stick and slap the honorifica on him for good measure!
cheers!

The problem with the pointy death stick is that the psyker is S3 and most of the things you would want to pointy stick to death are T4 or higher, getting a 5+ when you need it is like finding the Holy Grail.
(I can't imagine using force weapons on anything less than a Greater Daemon anyway)


Whereas you could just take a Leman Russ and battle cannon away all your problems.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Stubber

The problem with the pointy death stick is that the psyker is S3 and most of the things you would want to pointy stick to death are T4 or higher, getting a 5+ when you need it is like finding the Holy Grail.
(I can't imagine using force weapons on anything less than a Greater Daemon anyway)


Whereas you could just take a Leman Russ and battle cannon away all your problems.

granted S3 isn't that great, but then so are inquisitors! plus you can pull the cheap kill trick much cheaper (not to mention it's also far safer!) with guard than by including an allied inquisitor...

the main selling point is that you only need to cause 1 wound and with upto 5 attacks, you'll hopefully get a 5 or a 6 on your to-wound rolls...

mind you, the comic value is more than enough reason in my opinion!

cheers!

[Pabst]

I've done it to a Blood Thirster before. Its a sight to behold

[Dan296]

in the june WD theres a battle report (if it can be called that. really a cities of death advertisement, but thats a whole other topic) where a psyker takes out an ork warboss with a force weapon. halarious.