Squats, and how big of a joke they are....

[Steellegioncpt]

I might of put that a little too harsh. ANyways on a serious note, why do they exsist. I mean didnt the Imperium outlaw the use of mutants within their ranks after the Horus Heresy, or are squats the exception? Cause I know that the Imperium use to use like real mutants like zombies and such the IG even had land speeders pre heresy.

[Guard Master]

Squats were discontinued by games workshop because they didn't fit into 40K so they made up that the Tyranids ate them .So technically they no longer exist. Also the imperium allows only certain degrees of mutation into their ranks (so no tentacles/4arms/Gribbly bits etc) but this varies around the imperium and they are usually front line cannon fodder.

And yes the Guard had Land Speeders and even Land Raiders during the Heresy. but don't know about the zombies??

[Steellegioncpt]

Yea GW went throught a silly period in their early days, thank god they are cleaning it all up.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

squats existed under one designer's commonly misconcepted notion that 40k is a port of fantasy and needed dwarves.
fluff wise because squat skills and tech were valuable and they were still technically "human", just shorter because of high-grav planets

[Killermoose]

To be honest I'm glad they've gone. I really hate the idea of Space Dwarves.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

yes. I liked some of their fluff. but they were just too obviously 40k Dwarves
which perpetuates the stereotype and common misconception that 40k is a version of fantasy - its not! the game designers really actually didn't want it to be.
though squats still hold a place in my heart
i love to collect their models and WD issues with them (if any WD issues, i dont know yet, mainly focusing on EBaying the models)

heres a picture of some squats my friend and GW staffer Dennis Campbell did !
http://ca.games-workshop.com/Communi...05_DennisC.htm

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i think, if brought back as demiurge, theyll be a lot cooler. think of it this way: if space elves didnt already exist, im sure many people would find the idea of them horrendous!
it was the same thing with tau - they dont realy fit into 40k but its their contrast that makes them so cool, a dim light trying hard to shine in a dark galaxy.

GW just needs to find a place for squats/demiurges, and work up a good background.


though the trikes were sad. things like exo armour, land trains, the helecopter thing and their amazingly good artillerly were cool. just add a good background, some sensible fluff to all that, and well have a good army.

oh yeah, and make sure they call them demiurges and not squats (those amongst you who know your mythology will appreceate the squats renaming to demiurge )

[Cagarner]

So why are squats and demiurg linked? What actally are the demiurg like? The only time i have heard of them is in battlefleet Gothic.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

theyre industrious short aliens they have a few BIG ships in BFG

there was a resin concept head and some sketches sighted at a GD a while ago, that shows they are similar in idea to squats. basically think of them as a reinvisioning (sp?) of squats, while being a wholly different race.

[floyd pinkerton]

they are also supposely allied with (not ruled by) the tau.

tbh, they just dont fit though

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

demiurge or tau? cuz im sure tau are less 40kish than anything else gw can think of.

besides its a big galaxy - its about time they started showing us some different races that are not all 'doom and gloom and gothicy'. cure im all for 40k being about that, but just because 40k is gothic and dark, it doesnt mean that all its constituent parts need to be gothic (like tau)

also, i think tau have a slight alchemical bent to them, in addition to their exo armour, which i think fits in with 40k. as long as they dont ahve trikes, leather jackets, blast helmets and space-slayers, im happy

[Inquisitor Ralei]

The Squats were once protectorates of the IoM...a species deemed useful to the Imperium. They gave all sorts of tech to the Imperium such as advanced Warp Coils that the AdMech tried to copy but caused the Contagion of Ganymede!

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i believe tarantulas and thudd guns were their concoction. shame GW kind of forgot about them after 2nd ed. wtf? gw forgot about thudd guns in 2nd ed! the only time i saw the thudd gun template used was with nids (usually my own) or one of the strategy cards published in wd that had a straffing run.

ah good times.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Originally Posted by Cagarner

So why are squats and demiurg linked? What actally are the demiurg like? The only time i have heard of them is in battlefleet Gothic.

Linked by both physical appearance (i.e. general stature) and their "industrial"-ness. that they are miners, and forgers, and stuff

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

yeah regurgitate what i just said.

since were on the subject of demiurge/squats, does anyone know what made them special in gothic? they had very strange and large ships iirc

[Torquemada Coteaz]

mm. the whole drone torpedo thing,
and the industrial mining laser which was really good

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

though did they have any fluff? were they part of the tau fleet, or did they have their own? and were they from the same area of space the squats were from (homeworlds?)

[Torquemada Coteaz]

fluff: there wasn't much fluff i found (just the few paragraphs that go along with the stats) they just explain how these guys can configure drones to be torpedoes and how they mainly use the ships for forge and mining and stuff.
They are mainly part of tau fleet but i remember them being sort of like mercenaries in that they can ally wit others (just got to www.specialist-games.com/ to find the download rules)

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

good idea, thanks

i was very intrigued by them and the nicassar also, though could never find much about them. i was actually surprised when the tau empire codex didnt have nicassar in it

[Torquemada Coteaz]

nicassar is also in the thing.
I tihnk they have awesome ship building techniques but was extremely lacking technologically in some area cant remember which
anyways all your specialist games rules are on that site, all free

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

just read about them. they are telekineticists (sp?)

and, unsurprisingly, the demiurg (without the e, i just notices) are from the eastern fringe:The Demiurg originate on the far Eastern Fringe of the Galaxy, and are less often found further within the Galaxy. They are an uncommon sight, being almost purely space-borne in their massive and majestic Commerce class vessels. There is little background available on the Demiurg, leaving their origins, intentions and any possible threat or opportunity they pose to the other races in the Galaxy unknown. The Demiurg are known to be organised into "Brotherhoods", though any further information on, for instance, the numbers, political structure, economic and military weight of a Brotherhood is currently unknown, beyond the rumour that one Brotherhood is typically present upon a Bastion class ship and two to three on a Stronghold class.

The Demiurg are known to have an 'allied' relationship with the Tau, being noted as economic relations of the Tau Empire, and were initially introduced to the Tau via their mutual relations with the Kroot. The Tau acquired their knowledge of ion cannon technology from the Demiurg; this technology is now heavily used by the Tau in their armies and fleets. Two Brotherhoods of Demiurg, the Srry'Tok and Thurm, are known to have joined the Tau Empire.

[Brother_Ambrose]

Maybe its just me, but don't Space Dwarves make just as much sense as Space Orcs? Please, someone tell me that Orcs growing from fungus on every planet in the universe make sense...O...K...

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i love the GW take on orks. its very original and strangely ties all the fluff together


again, you mustnt think of them as orcs in space and dwarves in space. i mean elves in space sounds sad to me, but look what GWs done with eldar! wit henough attention, another fantasy race could be as evocative.

i mean hrud are skaven, demiurg dwarves. whats next? not much really

[Torquemada Coteaz]

well the thing is
the reason orks are everywhere is because once they take root they don't go away.
th old ones created orks to "out live" anything and never get wiped out completely.
since fantasy is a "planet" in 40k, there's bound to be orks.
old ones did NOT plan for orks to be there, but once orks got on the planet, well, even the old ones cant remove them.
so they created the slann (ever notice that it was close to slaan?) and lizardmen species - which is why saurus warriors are supposed to be pound for pound meaner than ork boyz.

and it's rumored that all imperial probes taht are "out of galaxy" can pick up transmissions from distant galaxies - and all of them are ork chatter

[Rogue_Banana]

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

Maybe its just me, but don't Space Dwarves make just as much sense as Space Orcs? Please, someone tell me that Orcs growing from fungus on every planet in the universe make sense...O...K...

Actually, reproduction via spores is a very powerful evolutionary adaption. Orks are the largest and most widespread race in the galxy, because they multiply extremely quickly, and have their unborn youngyuns thrown out in every direction making millions of orks in a thousand and one places. Hene, it is only Orks animosity and disorganization that stops them from overtaking the galaxy at large.

On a side note, as a short person, I take great offense to anti-squatinism. Actually i really don't like squats. I hope they don't come back. It will be a mark GW has run out of good ideas/has too many happy hours.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

ive read that in an old book. and i find it very freaky - wherever you go orks got there first