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06-24-2008
| #1 (permalink) |
| Adeptus Arbites    Join Date: Mar 2007
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    |  40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Use this thread to answer questions (for find out information) about: What changes are you concerned with? What changes do you think will really hurt game play? How will 5th Edition be worse than 4th edtion (or even 3rd edition)? etc etc etc Please note: f you have good things to say about 5th ed. please post them in the "40k 5th Edition Positive Changes" thread. Thanks!
__________________ I'm not violent in real life; but in a game of 40k I'll rip your spine out through your chest while howling at the moon! "What is a man who does not make the world better." God does not choose the qualified; He qualifies the Chosen. GIVE ME 1,000 SPACE MARINES... Barring that...Give me the FANTASTIC FOUR!!! Or just give me Jessica Alba.  |
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06-24-2008
| #2 (permalink) |
| Corporal  Join Date: May 2008 Location: I'm about to be nuked, CA
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Blog Entries: 2 | Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes I just read Warmaster's post on Positive. What do you mean true line of sight?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAAAGH my necrons are screwed. That's okay, I was planning on switching to SM soon anyway.
__________________ I apologise for my apparent lack of sanity in this post. ^  Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness I need to calculate What creates my own madness And I'm addicted to your punishment And you're the master And I am awaiting this disaster Alpharius: “Wait ... that was my line! Hey, are you ending the chapter already! You can't do that, I'm the bloody her-” Ended. Chew on that. =]L[= |
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06-25-2008
| #3 (permalink) |
| Trooper Join Date: Aug 2007
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes After playing about 10 or so games, this is my only beef with 5th edition: You cannot advance into another squad after winning assault combat... this gives the guard an extreme advantage over SM imo... win combat, then you get murdered by lasers. Anyone have a solution to that? Radeon |
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06-25-2008
| #4 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical    Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
terrain set-up is more important and you should be using more terrain than ever before now because of the true line of sight rules... you also really must co-ordinate your assaults now instead of being able to get away with hitting the enemy line piecemeal and relying on consolodation moves to win the day. the new assault rules also highlight just how crucial it is to not build those insanely powerfull 'overkill' squads that so many players think are needed... 10 assault marines is plain bad! it's far too killy and will leave the squad open to counter actions... 2 squads of 5 however can not only support eachother well, but also will hit with just the right amount of force to win, but hopefully not break the enemy! the assault phase is far less geared towards the assault armies who typically used to dominate because of the massacre/consolodation into new combats... assaults are still a huge part of the game, but it's now a bit more balanced towards the non-assault armies who used to have maybe 1 or 2 turns of gameplay before they got their collective faces beaten! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion   | |
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06-25-2008
| #5 (permalink) |
| Sergeant  Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NYC
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes I think if your army works together and actually makes a couple of kills before the combat squads start trying to do their job then they won't get teamed up on so easily. The Guard player can't sit in one fire base if he wants to win the objective based missions so you should be able to isolate some units. If you were really that into all assault forces then you are at a disadvantage. I don't think that an all assault force was ever really a part of 40k fluff though. In all reality men running across a futuristic battlefield with nothing but a chainsword would never survive. Even a few small pieces of fluff with World Eaters show a degree of tactics that show you they would actually employ tactics and have a balance of shooting for their army. The only thing I don't fully agree with is that a transport can contest objectives.
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07-09-2008
| #6 (permalink) |
| Trooper  Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: bremerton, wa.
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Defensive weapons being downgraded to STR 4 really hurts chimeras and hellhounds ( as well as most other armies). There isnt a good reason to take sponsons on Leman Russ tanks since it is doubtful they will ever get used. The flanking rules are good EXCEPT that you must commit before the game starts as to how you are bringing your reserves in. This takes away the tactical advantage of a flank attack since your opponent knows it's comming at least 2 turns in advance and can easily neutralize it. The sniper rifle changes pretty much defeat taking them. The increased missed shot are not compensated by the possibility of a rending hit that will get a cover save anyways. True line of sight dosen't work too well in a game with no scale to it. If every model is stylized as to size, why not terrain? The new cover saves for forests means jungle fighters and Kroot lose one of their best special abilities ( 4+ cover saves in woods when all others were 5+). Parker
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07-10-2008
| #7 (permalink) |
| Last Chancer   Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The First State
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Hopefully Kroot and Jungle Fighters will get revamped in their respective codexes, Although my Light Infantry with Camelioline will be getting a nice bonus of +1 to all their new cover saves!
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07-10-2008
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Each Shot Kills Spam (She never misses)    Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downers Grove IL
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
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07-10-2008
| #9 (permalink) | |
| COOKIE MONSTER NOMNOMNOM!    Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lurking in Sin City
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Stitch you gave me a idea....Must split up my assualt squads now.... COMBAT SQUADS AHOY! GO GO DARK ANGELS CODEX!
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07-10-2008
| #10 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Slyvania
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Only thing that confuses me is how do you miss a Leman russ that is behind a very very small wall? lol, also i don't think flame weapons should be able to go through large buildings.... |
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07-15-2008
| #11 (permalink) | |
| Last Chancer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The First State
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
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07-15-2008
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
so that little fence covering the bottom half of a russ' tracks doesn't afford it a cover save! and yes, it does indeed make perfect sense that flame-type weapons would go through buildings... fire likes oxygen - it seeks it out like i seek out a freshly baked cake!!! that's actually how troops used to, (and still do!) clear out emeny held bunkers; get up close and just burn the enemy to bone scraps... grenades became pointless as engineers began to design special grenade stumps within a bunker. so fire became the ultiment weapon for infantry to crack open enemy emplacements! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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07-15-2008
| #13 (permalink) |
| Trooper  Join Date: Jun 2008
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes the defensive weapons being made STR 4 is a bad choice IMO. wtf? my pred destructors are damn near pointless now. the only other thing annoying me really is the blast weapon scatter
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07-15-2008
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
for example, a lone predator destructor or leman russ loaded down with heavy bolters would run roughshod over anything not in power armour! vehicles just need to try different tactics now... flanking is a better option as the tank can move faster than the infantry and get into a good position within a turn or two and then pour enfilading fire into the advancing enemy... or else a tank can support the infantry push - keeping the same speed as the assaulting infantry and netralising threats like enemy transports/tanks or other fire support. once at the target, the tank then uses it's anti-infantry guns to shred any enemy assault forces! walkers also have a more defined role now as they've got a clear advantage over a tank; more options for bigger guns!!! if you really need say mobile anti-tank, then something like a dreadnought w/twin-lascannon & rocket launcher or eldar war walker w/2x missile launchers is a better choice than kitting out say a falcon or predator for pure mobile anti-tank... cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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07-15-2008
| #15 (permalink) |
| Sergeant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NYC
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes I wish enfilading fire was actually enfilading fire.
__________________ "Only the insane have strength enough to prosper, only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane." |
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07-15-2008
| #16 (permalink) |
| Primer  Join Date: Mar 2008
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes For me, speed issue. I play eldar and tyranids, and I always was able to rely on speed, that I could move faster to my opponent or away from in a lot of cases. Don't get me wrong, I love 'running' with my wraithlord and monsterous creatures now, it just that well, everyone can run now so a running carnifiex is moot. So I'm still getting used to that. Those doesn't effect my eldar as much, since I can hop them in transports, but I have to completly re-work my 'nid stragtegy. |
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07-16-2008
| #17 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Slyvania
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Really? I find the nids work great now....running makes your opponent closer, and your genestealers\hormagaunts really like that  |
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07-16-2008
| #18 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
a good tactic now is to 'leap-frog' shooty units; get one unit up into rapid fire range and then 'run' any other nearby unit further away. yes the rapid firing unit will get eaten, but you're still keeping the bulk of the bugs at arms length... lather, rinse, repeat! guard are especially good at this as they have the numbers to make this really effective! however the most brutal army with this tactic is the necrons thanks to the veil of darkness! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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07-16-2008
| #19 (permalink) | |
| Last Chancer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The First State
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
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07-16-2008
| #20 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes Quote:
think for a moment just how deadly a tactical squad would become if they could rapid fire their bolters and then still assault!!! even large ork mobs or tyranid swarms would vanish under that kind of punishment! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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07-17-2008
| #21 (permalink) |
| Renegade Arbiter  Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Guam.... for now
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes "So your telling me If I put the conscripts in front of the enemy's target there is a 50% chance that the shots will disappear into thin air? Who the **** made up the physics for this world" - Unknown Imperial Commander |
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07-17-2008
| #22 (permalink) |
| Last Chancer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The First State
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes 626 I am just saying I know I can plug away with my rifle and get nice and personal with the bayonet if needed. Haven't needed to......yet. Perhaps if you "select fire" your rapid fire weapons (only one shot) you should still be able to assault. or maybe no bonus attack on the charge. or maybe Lasguns should be assault 1 with 24 inch range!
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07-17-2008
| #23 (permalink) |
| Corporal  Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Behind enemy lines
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes I'm still not a big fan on the tank nerf, but anything to keep balance is necessary however stupid the rule is. I'm dissapointed with most new rumors for my SM army, I'm going to have to remove all the flamers from my assault marines and take away their sergeants' combiweapons.
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07-18-2008
| #24 (permalink) |
| LODGE MEMBER  Join Date: May 2007 Location: Middleburg, Florida
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| Re: 40K 5th Edition Negative Changes YOu know I think no matter how they change the rules, someone, somewhere will be unhappy and think they are picking on his army. Just have to adjust to the rules and make new tactics is all.
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