Grey Knight HtH Attacks #? - 40K Terra

Ikarus · 10-23-2006

Just to see if I am playing my rules right, Terminator has base two attacks, gets one for charging, and that is all? So three in total? True Grit only applies to grey knights? And only provides 1+ attack to GK in PA, but no bonus to charging?

10-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikarus

Just to see if I am playing my rules right, Terminator has base two attacks, gets one for charging, and that is all? So three in total? True Grit only applies to grey knights? And only provides 1+ attack to GK in PA, but no bonus to charging?

If I read you right, and am thinking of the right rules.... Termie has base two, one for charging. Certain other armies do get true grit, and yes only to power armor or otherwise bolter equipped marine. So if a power armored grey knight charged into assault with a bolter, you would have +3 attacks. Was this what you were after?

Inquisitor Rosenadel · 10-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ikarus

Just to see if I am playing my rules right, Terminator has base two attacks, gets one for charging, and that is all? So three in total? True Grit only applies to grey knights? And only provides 1+ attack to GK in PA, but no bonus to charging?

You've got it right. Grey Knight in power armour does not get an extra attack for charging, however. The explanation is that the weapon is too unwieldy to charge and fire with. So GK in PA always have 2 attacks (unless it's a Justicar).

Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey · 10-24-2006

For GK's in Power Armour, if they didn't fire their storm bolter in the shooting phase, they get the +1A for charging and the +1A for having True Grit (I believe). And yes, GKT's have base 2, +1A for charging, but will never get an extra attack via True Grit.

Ikarus · 10-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey

For GK's in Power Armour, if they didn't fire their storm bolter in the shooting phase, they get the +1A for charging and the +1A for having True Grit (I believe). And yes, GKT's have base 2, +1A for charging, but will never get an extra attack via True Grit.

Ah Thank you guys. For the first time I had fielded some Grey Knights to my existing marine army, and I am loving it. When it came to assault, I had my own personal trouble of finding out how many strong hits i got =D. But now its clarified, and its time to get back into action and take down the enemies of the Imperium!

Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey · 10-24-2006

I had the same probelm when I first started out, as for the first few weeks I played with my Grey Knights I counted my GKT's for having True Grit, when they were supposed to XD...

Anways yeah, Grey Knights are awesome in the assault, especially Grey Knight Terminators! I had my Grandmaster (w/ 4 GKT Retinue) go up against a Space Marine Chapter Master (w/ 4 Terminator Retinue [2 Assault Cannons]... I marched up, having a few termies go down by rending, but one I got into CC, I slaughtered them before they could even attack!

Torquemada Coteaz · 10-25-2006

@ Ezra (and for anyone else):
"For GK's in Power Armour, if they didn't fire their storm bolter in the shooting phase, they get the +1A for charging and the +1A for having True Grit (I believe). And yes, GKT's have base 2, +1A for charging, but will never get an extra attack via True Grit."

I'm quite sure that its not +1 Charge and +1 true grit in PA (as you said previous post) If I'm wrong feel free to correct me

Inquisitor Rosenadel · 10-25-2006

"Grey Knights have the 'True Grit' ability when armed with Storm Bolters, enabling them to use them in close combat like lesser creatures would use pistols. This means they gain the bonus attack dice for being armed with an additional close combat weapon, providing they have not charged in the same assault phase. This rule only applies to Grey Knights in power armour."
-Codex: Daemonhunters, p.8

To summarize: Grey Knights gain +1 attack only if
-they are in power armour
-they did not charge in the same turn (in which case they would get a charge bonus instead)

Deeper meaning: a basic Grey Knight will have a constant number of attacks in any given phase: 2: either +1 for charging, or +1 for True Grit.

d(attacks)/dt = 0.

Torquemada Coteaz · 10-25-2006

in the rulebook ( a holy tome which i do not have on hand so i will paraphrase ) true grit is a special rule almost exclusively for grey knights. and states that if you charge you choose to true grit. if so, you lose charge bonus. so yeah its constant atk number

Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey · 10-26-2006

Darn my misinterpretation of the rules! Well, thanks for clearing that up for me..

Well, while were on the discussion of True Grit. Why don't you think our Terminators get it? Are they two bulky to wave it around like their brethern in power armour or would it just be to cheap to have 3 Strength 6 attacks a turn?

MarkedByChaos · 10-26-2006

Space wolves and Death Guard have True Grit... GK are the only ones who recieve True Grit with Storm Bolters. and while GK are points heavy mods (especially the Termies) they are not intended to be "quick" (no Termie is) but very effective and powerful. maybee it is cause True Grit requires the lower encumberance of Power Armor to be effective and once the Marine doans Tactical Dreadnaught Armor (which I imagine is very encombering) he just can't move as efficiently (maybee subtly would be a better word).

Inquisitor Rosenadel · 10-26-2006

I think it might be because ALL Terminators get no +1 attacks for double wielding (unfortunately, I do not have the 4th Ed. Space Marine codex with me), but I'm not sure.

But if I had to hazard a guess regarding the "real" world, I would agree with what has been said: they are too bulky to be able to use their weapons in the same manner in close combat.

Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey · 10-26-2006

I tend to lean to that side of the argument as well. Terminator Armour is just to cumbersome(sp?) to be waving around a Stormbolter like it's a pistol...

Torquemada Coteaz · 10-27-2006

yeah. The grey knights already need every bit of agility and dexterity they have to use the true grit and lose the charge bonus. Termies would be wayy to slow for that. plus the thing is, storm bolters ARE assault weaps so having termies that shootin and have that one more atk for true grit can make a LOT of difference

MarkedByChaos · 10-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

I think it might be because ALL Terminators get no +1 attacks for double wielding (unfortunately, I do not have the 4th Ed. Space Marine codex with me), but I'm not sure.

Termies with twin Lightning Claws get the two weapon bonus.

Torquemada Coteaz · 11-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkedByChaos

Termies with twin Lightning Claws get the two weapon bonus.

True.
But I think he was getting at the normal termie squads with SB/PF because it's similar to GKs' SB/PW

Inquisitor Rosenadel · 11-01-2006

I thought terminator armour prevented ever gaining +1A due to double-wielding... I guess not. I was trying to figure out if LC termies got it... cool. I should get some of them.

Torquemada Coteaz · 11-01-2006

do hammer/shield termies get it?

Inquisitor Rosenadel · 11-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

do hammer/shield termies get it?

I don't think so, but I don't know. I just looked at the rules again, and I could swear that it said somewhere that a storm shield doesn't count as a weapon, but I can't find it. Maybe they can...?

Torquemada Coteaz · 11-01-2006

oh well.
LC dual weapon bonus is more than enough for Assault termies :P

Ikarus · 11-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Rosenadel

I don't think so, but I don't know. I just looked at the rules again, and I could swear that it said somewhere that a storm shield doesn't count as a weapon, but I can't find it. Maybe they can...?

Hammer + Shield Terminators will then get the exact amount of hits compared to a normal GK terminator. Seeing how they do not get any bonus for True Grit, neither do the items say it counts as a cc weapon or additional to.

Heh. I think.

Torquemada Coteaz · 11-02-2006

Same as what I thought.
that Hammer+shield gives no bonus.
though i sort of think they should, because shields can be used as weapons (shield bashing mostly)

Torquemada Coteaz · 11-09-2006

flippin through the DH codex again today.
realised that it explicitly says Thammer +SShield gets the +1 for dual because SShield is a one handed CC weapon because it takes up one hand and that hand cant use anything else

10-25-2006	#7 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	@ Ezra (and for anyone else): "For GK's in Power Armour, if they didn't fire their storm bolter in the shooting phase, they get the +1A for charging and the +1A for having True Grit (I believe). And yes, GKT's have base 2, +1A for charging, but will never get an extra attack via True Grit." I'm quite sure that its not +1 Charge and +1 true grit in PA (as you said previous post) If I'm wrong feel free to correct me __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

10-25-2006	#8 (permalink)
Inquisitor Rosenadel Extremis Diabolus Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in the shadows Posts: 1,277 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts	"Grey Knights have the 'True Grit' ability when armed with Storm Bolters, enabling them to use them in close combat like lesser creatures would use pistols. This means they gain the bonus attack dice for being armed with an additional close combat weapon, providing they have not charged in the same assault phase. This rule only applies to Grey Knights in power armour." -Codex: Daemonhunters, p.8 To summarize: Grey Knights gain +1 attack only if -they are in power armour -they did not charge in the same turn (in which case they would get a charge bonus instead) Deeper meaning: a basic Grey Knight will have a constant number of attacks in any given phase: 2: either +1 for charging, or +1 for True Grit. d(attacks)/dt = 0. __________________ Lord of Fluff and Blood Angels Herald of Nurgle "I wield my power with the Emperor's Authority. Those who would say that I am 'radical' merely have minds too small and impotent to realize all the weapons at their disposal. Do not question my methods on account of these so-called 'Puritans'." -Inquisitor Mathias Rosenadel

10-25-2006	#9 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	in the rulebook ( a holy tome which i do not have on hand so i will paraphrase ) true grit is a special rule almost exclusively for grey knights. and states that if you charge you choose to true grit. if so, you lose charge bonus. so yeah its constant atk number __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

10-26-2006	#12 (permalink)
Inquisitor Rosenadel Extremis Diabolus Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in the shadows Posts: 1,277 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts	I think it might be because ALL Terminators get no +1 attacks for double wielding (unfortunately, I do not have the 4th Ed. Space Marine codex with me), but I'm not sure. But if I had to hazard a guess regarding the "real" world, I would agree with what has been said: they are too bulky to be able to use their weapons in the same manner in close combat. __________________ Lord of Fluff and Blood Angels Herald of Nurgle "I wield my power with the Emperor's Authority. Those who would say that I am 'radical' merely have minds too small and impotent to realize all the weapons at their disposal. Do not question my methods on account of these so-called 'Puritans'." -Inquisitor Mathias Rosenadel Last edited by Inquisitor Rosenadel; 10-26-2006 at 12:28 PM. Reason: clarification

10-27-2006	#14 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	yeah. The grey knights already need every bit of agility and dexterity they have to use the true grit and lose the charge bonus. Termies would be wayy to slow for that. plus the thing is, storm bolters ARE assault weaps so having termies that shootin and have that one more atk for true grit can make a LOT of difference __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

10-24-2006	#4 (permalink)
Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey Primer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 47 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For GK's in Power Armour, if they didn't fire their storm bolter in the shooting phase, they get the +1A for charging and the +1A for having True Grit (I believe). And yes, GKT's have base 2, +1A for charging, but will never get an extra attack via True Grit.

10-24-2006	#6 (permalink)
Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey Primer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 47 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I had the same probelm when I first started out, as for the first few weeks I played with my Grey Knights I counted my GKT's for having True Grit, when they were supposed to XD... Anways yeah, Grey Knights are awesome in the assault, especially Grey Knight Terminators! I had my Grandmaster (w/ 4 GKT Retinue) go up against a Space Marine Chapter Master (w/ 4 Terminator Retinue [2 Assault Cannons]... I marched up, having a few termies go down by rending, but one I got into CC, I slaughtered them before they could even attack!

10-26-2006	#10 (permalink)
Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey Primer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 47 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Darn my misinterpretation of the rules! Well, thanks for clearing that up for me.. Well, while were on the discussion of True Grit. Why don't you think our Terminators get it? Are they two bulky to wave it around like their brethern in power armour or would it just be to cheap to have 3 Strength 6 attacks a turn?

10-26-2006	#11 (permalink)
MarkedByChaos Trooper Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 87 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Space wolves and Death Guard have True Grit... GK are the only ones who recieve True Grit with Storm Bolters. and while GK are points heavy mods (especially the Termies) they are not intended to be "quick" (no Termie is) but very effective and powerful. maybee it is cause True Grit requires the lower encumberance of Power Armor to be effective and once the Marine doans Tactical Dreadnaught Armor (which I imagine is very encombering) he just can't move as efficiently (maybee subtly would be a better word).

10-26-2006	#13 (permalink)
Grandmaster Ezra Godfrey Primer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 47 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I tend to lean to that side of the argument as well. Terminator Armour is just to cumbersome(sp?) to be waving around a Stormbolter like it's a pistol...

11-01-2006	#17 (permalink)
Inquisitor Rosenadel Extremis Diabolus Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in the shadows Posts: 1,277 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 55 Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts	I thought terminator armour prevented ever gaining +1A due to double-wielding... I guess not. I was trying to figure out if LC termies got it... cool. I should get some of them. __________________ Lord of Fluff and Blood Angels Herald of Nurgle "I wield my power with the Emperor's Authority. Those who would say that I am 'radical' merely have minds too small and impotent to realize all the weapons at their disposal. Do not question my methods on account of these so-called 'Puritans'." -Inquisitor Mathias Rosenadel

11-01-2006	#18 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	do hammer/shield termies get it? __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

11-01-2006	#20 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	oh well. LC dual weapon bonus is more than enough for Assault termies :P __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

11-02-2006	#22 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Same as what I thought. that Hammer+shield gives no bonus. though i sort of think they should, because shields can be used as weapons (shield bashing mostly) __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

11-09-2006	#23 (permalink)
Torquemada Coteaz The Grammar Cop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: the TC personal =][= estate on Encaladus Posts: 1,916 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 115 Thanked 50 Times in 36 Posts Blog Entries: 5	flippin through the DH codex again today. realised that it explicitly says Thammer +SShield gets the +1 for dual because SShield is a one handed CC weapon because it takes up one hand and that hand cant use anything else __________________ My Site: www.freewebs.com/ejshtuffz All of my stuff are there. Current Projects, etc. General Wargaming Guide: here Picture/Art Blog: here (BT) Asomrof: Crusade Fluff: here Crusaders Fluff: here http://www.freewebs.com/jason-lastword/index.htm

11-10-2006	#24 (permalink)
Chaptermaster Kezef Primer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chico, Ca Posts: 40 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts