Couple of new dex questions

[GriplionGremlin]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Ok, can anyone tell me how much a 10 man Nurgle Chosen squad costs with 2 plasma guns, 2 meltas and one twin LC model?

dude read the rules. if folks start laying points down on things then gw has a foot to stand on to try to shut this site down. buy the stinking codex, find someone with the leaked version and figure it out that way.

stitch and others - on the marks vs icons. where are any of you seeing marks having different abilities than icons? the only difference between them is that icons can be used for summoning and/or teleport homers where marks cannot. otherwise they do exactly the same thing! and remember if you have an ic with 1 mark if he joins a unit with another he does not gain thier ability. thats specifically in the book and vice versa.

[hairyyahoo]

giving a consolidated total for a unit is acceptable, we and other have been doing it for ages whenever anyone write up an army list, and gw seem to be fine about it. it's only when people break it down and list individual points costs that they get a bit narky.

so i can tell you that the unit you're after will cost 300pts in total but i can't tell you how much a plasma gun or the twin claws cost

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by hairyyahoo

giving a consolidated total for a unit is acceptable, we and other have been doing it for ages whenever anyone write up an army list, and gw seem to be fine about it. it's only when people break it down and list individual points costs that they get a bit narky.

so i can tell you that the unit you're after will cost 300pts in total but i can't tell you how much a plasma gun or the twin claws cost

Thanks Hairy. I have the codex, but I'm terrible at calculating costs. How exactly did you come up with this number? Did you just add the cost for Plague Marines to the points for Chosen?

[hairyyahoo]

nope you add the cost of the nurgle icon to the cost of the chosen. thats the only way it can be done now. they won't be fearless or feel no pain but they will have the +1t

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by GriplionGremlin

stitch and others - on the marks vs icons. where are any of you seeing marks having different abilities than icons? the only difference between them is that icons can be used for summoning and/or teleport homers where marks cannot. otherwise they do exactly the same thing! and remember if you have an ic with 1 mark if he joins a unit with another he does not gain thier ability. thats specifically in the book and vice versa.

the actual marks are better because you cannot lose the bonus...
if the icon bearer dies, then the benifit of icon is lost. plus, the proper cult troops have their skill on top of a proper mark!

so i nthe end, the mark trumps the icon. (you can always just give a cult champion a personal icon too ya know?!)

cheers!

[Dragoon King]

So I can't make my Nurgle models dedicated unless they have an Icon? Man, I'm completely confused. How do I give them the mark? My brain hurts *ohhhhhh, excederin headache this big!!!!*

[SteveBerenyi]

The icon gives them the mark. you can not purchase the mark separately.

The only models with marks are HQ choices ( i believe) there are no legions, so dedication only come in our collective minds. hope that helps

[Dan296]

ok, heres the differance.
Plague & Noise marines, Bezerkers, and Thousand sons have MARKS.
they are better then icons, they cant lose the bonuses.

ICONS apply to chaos lords, scorcerors, chosen, chaos marines, havoks, and whatever else.

adding up points isnt difficult....for chosen it costs X points. for nurgle chosen it costs X points + the icon + any other upgrades (guns ect.)

i have a question though: does the khorne juggernaut change the unit type for the chaos lord, or does he still count as infantry?

[SteveBerenyi]

it changes nothing (at least it says nothing in the dex!)

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Dan296

ok, heres the differance.
Plague & Noise marines, Bezerkers, and Thousand sons have MARKS.
they are better then icons, they cant lose the bonuses.

ICONS apply to chaos lords, scorcerors, chosen, chaos marines, havoks, and whatever else.

not quite true, HQ's, (lords, sorcerers & daemon princes), can take the "mark of chaos".
all the other units however, (besides the true cult units), get the option for an icon!

Originally Posted by Dan296

i have a question though: does the khorne juggernaut change the unit type for the chaos lord, or does he still count as infantry?

a model on a juggernaut gains the specific bonuses for that mount & also counts as cavalry (pg 86, codex: chaos space marines)

cheers!

[MarkedByChaos]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

a model on a juggernaut gains the specific bonuses for that mount & also counts as cavalry (pg 86, codex: chaos space marines)

cheers!

NO, "the Model cannot be carried in transports, exactly as if it was a Cavalry model"

the mount for Slaanesh is the only one that changes the unit to Cavalry as it states that it "changes the unit type of the model from Infantry to Cavalry"


GriplionGremlin - under each Icon of Chaos (pg 81) it states whether or not an IC joining the unit doesn't gain any benefits. usually no but in the case of Glory it says nothing about an IC not gaining it, since the other four specificly state that the IC doesn't benefit and it is the only place in the codex that mentions these kind of restrictions it would follow that an IC joining a unit with Glory would gain it's benefit since he is part of the unit and there are no prohibitions stated.

[GriplionGremlin]

626 - honestly what does it matter. a unit has access to one or the other. not both so it really is pretty irrelevent which is better. you dont get a pick unless you're picking the cheaper base csm and give them a icon to get the benefit or a more expensive cult unit which has the mark.

markedbychaos- true i missed the generic icon not having that line. probably as i dont really care for it. i used it in its previous incarnation from the last codex with my iron warriors but as i cant run "iron warriors" any more but csm painted as iron warriors its pretty much irrellevant for me. my 1000 sons are coming out in more force now. and its kind of nice to be able to add more support for them now.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by GriplionGremlin

626 - honestly what does it matter. a unit has access to one or the other. not both so it really is pretty irrelevent which is better. you dont get a pick unless you're picking the cheaper base csm and give them a icon to get the benefit or a more expensive cult unit which has the mark.

an icon bearer is treated as a special weapon trooper. he's therefore killable and once he's gone, the unit loses the benifit of the icon's mark! so for example, clever use of line of sight + torrent of fire can kill-off the icon...
he's also another very tempting target for say, a vindicare assassin?!

properly marked troops have no such weakness.

markedbychaos; i do most definately stand corrected!

[MarkedByChaos]

626,
You are correct sir

GriplionGremlin,
I was told this Codex was to balance the armies Chaos players were fielding, but IMO as you have demonstrated, this Codex is more versatile, maybe too much so. an army of 1k Sons with 3 Vindicators to support them... Ich!

[Heroka Vendile]

Originally Posted by MarkedByChaos

626,
You are correct sir

that should be Ma'am actually

But I'm sure IT won't mind too much if you give IT a biscuit (just watch your fingers )

[Dan296]

just refer to her as "that blue thing..."

base CSM with marks are much worse then the marked units in several ways-
marks only give +1 to a stat (T, A, I,) or for tzeentch the crazy invulnerable save.

marked troops get alot more stuff. bezerkers for example, get the +1 A and furious charge, WS, and theyre fearless. though they dont get bolters, but why would you have your zerkers stop and shoot when you have a perfectly good chainaxe?

in addition, 10 khorne bezerkers= 210 points
10 CSM, mark of khorne, plasma gun=195

its really not that much more points, and the bezerkers would destroy the normal marines, in all honesty!

[God_Grinder]

yeah dan in straght up CC the zerkers would destroy them but you are forgetting about the 2+ rounds of bolter and plasma gun fire while they are advancing. i personaly think its a close call and depends on the players style. IMO

[Heroka Vendile]

if they got across the table fast enough...

[GriplionGremlin]

well whats really nasty is 2 squads 1000sons, sorcerer with wind of chaos and rhinos for both
2 squads of plague marines 2 plasma guns each, asp champ w/fist and rhinos
and 1 squad of zerkers with asp champ w/pweapon in rhino.

who does your opponent target? they are all troop choices and all very leathal. then you do the whole 3 vindicator support and by the time your opponent figures out which unit is more dangerous and targets them the others are blasting away at his forces.

then you add in a lord or sorcerer on bike (i prefer the sorcerer) and another in termie armor and unit of terminators who deep strike in either off the biker or if you give your zerker champ a personal icon off him.

just wee bit o fun there.

[GriplionGremlin]

anyone ever see anyone else run chaos with 1-2 units of all the gods yet? how did it work if so?

[MarkedByChaos]

Heroka Vendile,
"You are correct sir" is a quote that looses its humor in text and half the people on this site are probably too young to spot anyway so

GriplionGremlin,
the night the codex was officially released I played and brought everything

2 units of 1000 sons (9 each)
2 unit of Plague Marines (7 each)
1 unit of Noise Marines (6)
1 unit of Khorne Berzerkers (16)

Also Obliterators, Sorcerer, Predator and Vindicator

I lost, but the dice were sooooo against me that night and I still managed to keep it within limited losses and it was barely a maginal victory for my opponent. had I made the list with any thought other than the desire to play the new dex and as many of the different things to test them and I had not broken my dice I would have killed. as it was I enjoyed the game and everything very much and am excited for a remach