Expanding an Iron Warriors army from 500 - 1000 pts.

[Demilich]

Currently, I have 24 Marines, a Warsmith and a dakka Chaos Predator. Some random ideas I was considering include:

A template-spamming Plasma Cannon/Havoc Launcher/Heavy Flamer Mutated Hull Dreadnaught of doom.
Chaos Terminator Lord and some Chosen Terminators for deep-striking power weapon fun.
Possessed Marines with talons, though they seem rather expensive for what they do.
A Vindicator would be very nice to have, since I usually play on half-sized boards.
An infiltrating assault Havoc squad with meltas and flamers to tear apart any nasty vehicles or knock senseless infantry that are trying to provide fire support - Though I haven't had much trouble with vehicles so far as I am rather lucky at dice rolls with my lone Lascannon marine. Or I could use the 2 AC/2 ML Tank Hunter setup, though I find it a little boring.
Obliterators - They're versatile, but the price is ridiculous for a single model.

What would be effective ways to fill out my army?

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

nice basic stuff you got there (what are the 24 marines armed with?)

based on what you already have (a character, quite a bit of troops and a vehicle) id go for something different - like the chosen terminators or possessed

[Demilich]

My current setup at the minute is:

HQ - Lt w/ Kai gun and Power glaive - 85 pts
Troop 1 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun x 2 - 104 pts
Troop 2 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun, Lascannon - 109 pts
Troop 3 - CSM x 6 w/ Bolt pistols + CCWs, Flamer - 90 pts
Heavy Support - Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110 pts

498

I haven't had a chance to assemble the other marines yet, they'll be made from the actual Iron Warrior metal torsos and heads that come with the jetpack plastic case.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

well thats a pretty good core for the army, its just a matter of adding more specialised things. id go for more infantry at the moment or perhaps that funky dread idea you had, just to get some more versatile things in the army.

but a unit of chosen terminators is always nice to see

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Demilich

My current setup at the minute is:

HQ - Lt w/ Kai gun and Power glaive - 85 pts
Troop 1 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun x 2 - 104 pts
Troop 2 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun, Lascannon - 109 pts
Troop 3 - CSM x 6 w/ Bolt pistols + CCWs, Flamer - 90 pts
Heavy Support - Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 110 pts

498

I haven't had a chance to assemble the other marines yet, they'll be made from the actual Iron Warrior metal torsos and heads that come with the jetpack plastic case.

1st thing i would recomend is of corse filling out your 1st and 3rd squads! 8-10 marines would be decent for both, though make sure that the assaulty squad gets 10 men before the plasma gun squad!!! (assaults really rely on numbers )
another thing to add to your assaulty squad would be a second flamer and a champ with a power fist and melta bombs. (bombs are great for cracking those really tough nuts!)

as for more heavy firepower - i know you think oblits are pricey, but they truely are worth every penny. at least 3 are almost mandetory too - especially for your army's background purposes!
- havocs with 4 autocannons & tank hunters is a sight to behold! 8 S7 shots that gain the bonus for tank hunters will turn even a laman russ into a pile of mangled metal! just watch out for monoliths as tank hunters won't work against it...
- a pred with all lascannons and mutated hull, while expensive will give any armour commander nightmares for at least a fortnight!
- an indirect firing basilisk will also help to influence your opponent's deployment as he/she tries to keep their best unit/s within your tank's minimum range...

hope this helps
cheers!

[Demilich]

Wouldn't it be better to mix up Tank Hunting Havocs' autocannons with missile launchers? I play against an awful lot of Black Templars and don't want to be unable to glance their Land Raiders. And, as you may have noticed, I have a template fetish. >_>
As for the Predator, it seems like a bit of a waste. There aren't all that many vehicle-users around here. And unlike auto/fragging Havocs, they're not that effective against infantry once the few vehicles are popped.

And yeah, I was intending to increase the size of my assault squad to eight or ten, and give them a power-fisting AC if I have spare points. Or I could give them a Rhino, I suppose. My CCW marines tend to get shot (But usually are unwounded - I love 3+ saves) by the enemy even when they pose no threat, but those are bullets which aren't going near my shooty squads so I'm not complaining. I don't know about making the shooting squads bigger, though. I'd rather have an extra squad of bolters and plasmas than add more marines onto the existing squads.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

thats the beauty of the autocannons + tank hunters - you get 8 shots with them so the chances of doing something to a land raider are pretty much the same as with 4 S 9 shots

but i do see what you mean. its up to you to find a combo you like. my mate loves tank hunting plasma cannons. im not a big fan of them - i prefer infiltrating heavy bolters!

[Perturabo]

Max out your squads with loads of extra marines-gives you loads of ablative armour and plenty of bolter shots-dont forget Chaos Marines can have 20 Marines per squad.
If you need to you can then break down these Squads to max your troops choices and that can give even more Heavy/Assault Weapons.
Always give every squad a Aspiring champion with a Powerfist as it gives every squad a tank killing chance should the opportunity arise
Havoc squads with plenty of Missile launchers (a greatly overlooked multi purpose weapon and cheap to boot) or Assualt weapons if you need your entire force to be mobile.Avoid mixing weapon types in the Havoc squad as youll then always be unsure as to fire at.
Chosen Terminators-cheaper than Obliterators (both in cash and points) can also deep strike and can give access to a Landraider transport which is in effect another Heavy support choice!
A Bassilisk or Vindicator is a must after all its one of the things that makes an Iron Warriors army so distinctive.

[Demilich]

If I went for the chosen, I was thinking something like:

HQ - Lt w/ Kai gun, Daemonic Resilience, Teleport Homer and Power glaive - 100 pts
Elite - 9 x Chosen Terminators w/ 1 x Chainfist, 2 x Reaper Autocannon = 300
Troop 1 - CSM x 8 w/ Plasma gun x 2 - 132 pts
Troop 2 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun, Lascannon - 109 pts
Troop 3 - CSM x 9 w/ Bolt pistols + CCWs, Flamer x 2, AC w/ Power Fist and D. Strength, Rhino transport w/ Extra armour, Smoke Launchers - 229 pts
Heavy Support - Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc Launcher - 130 pts

1000 points

Not particularly fluffy, but meh. Only thirty-five models, too. Might need more bodies to throw at the enemy.

I figure that 27 attacks on the charge with no armour saves allowed is going to ruin anyone's day, especially when they have a 2+ armour save. Really damned expensive though, and I have to restrain myself from throwing Lightning Claws onto all of them to jack up the price even higher. The chainfist is just there for any opportunities they have to get near a tank if there are no enemy squads in range. Any opinions on taking the Warsmith and assault squad in the Rhino? It seems a waste to have them foot-slogging.

Are Land Raiders really worth it? They just seem like an awfully expensive annoyance that can't be destroyed easily. Predators with lascannons and Mutated hull seem to do a better job (While with only one rerolling lascannon shot) for over seventy points less. Does anyone actually use them as transports? Since only five Terminators can fit in there, I can't see why you would want them as a transport when teleport homers can be cheaply bought. Unless you wanted to transport regular power armoured chosen which are more expensive than regular CSMs and do exactly the same job, or a squad of Aspiring Champions which can get a massive upgrade to Terminators for just a few points more...

[experiment 626]

a chaos land raider is much better when used to transport things like possesed, khorne 'zerkers, (not aplicable though for iron warriors!) chosen w/ccw's & bolt pistols, chaos marine squads w/ccw's & bolt pistols and/or your lord/Lt!
possessed especially can become truely nasty when truckng around in a raider as they'll be able to drive up and assault out of their transport! give then daemonic talons and race them towards that nasty wraithlord/wraithguard/carnifex/tyrant/d.prince/whatever! and watch them shread it in no time

as for your list, i'd drop your termies down to 6 men total. still gives you 2 heavy weapons, and 6 is still ideal for scoring unit purposes but it won't hurt nearly as much!!!
right now those termies are almost a 1/3rd of your army! granted they're hard to kill, but a few bad rolls and/or lots of enemy plasma or other ap2 firepower will soon leave you fighting with 300 less pts than your opponent...
if you plan to deep strike your termies, consider a pair of heavy flamers. superb at clearing out even power armoured foes simply through the high number of hits! not to mention anything not in power armour will just roast!lol. and you also don't have to worry about your enemy getting alot of lucky cover saves to boot

with the extra pts, i'd add a 10th man to your assault unit simply for scoring unit purposes... remember that you always want to aim for even numbered units as they can take an extra casulty before they fall below 50% unit strength and lose their scoring status!

i'd also add mutated hull onto your predator... just for the annoyance value it will add as it can really force your opponent to put alot more effort into killing the blasted thing! and with 8 ap4 shots/turn, most opponents will want to through everything they have at it anyways!!!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Demilich]

Oh, the reason the assault squad is 9-man is because my Warsmith will be joining them to hitch a ride on their Rhino.

HQ - Lt w/ Kai gun, Daemonic Resilience, Teleport Homer and Power glaive - 100 pts
Elite - 6 x Chosen Terminators w/ 1 x Chainfist, 2 x Heavy Flamer = 182 pts
Troop 1 - CSM x 8 w/ Plasma gun x 2 - 132 pts
Troop 2 - CSM x 6 w/ Plasma gun, Lascannon - 109 pts
Troop 3 - CSM x 9 w/ Bolt pistols + CCWs, Flamer x 2, AC w/ Power Fist and D. Strength, Rhino transport w/ Extra armour, Smoke Launchers - 229 pts
Heavy Support - Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Havoc Launcher, Mutated Hull - 160 pts

I don't know, I never seem to see anyone taking H. Flamers instead of Autocannons for Terminators in their army lists. But since I'll be firing and then assaulting, I suppose it would work better for softening up the unfortunate enemy squad.
With the spare points I could take a Basilisk (Or even a Vindicator? I like how I have to buy the Imperial Guard and Space Marine codexes to see their point costs). I'll need to look at someone's codex the next time I'm playing. Or get a lone Obliterator.

[experiment 626]

i'd drop 1 marine then from the assault unit if you want to play to optimising your scoring unit status then. the Lieutenant as an IC won't count as part of the squad when checking to see if they're scoring or not! (though you would count his remaining wounds for regrouping purposes!)

as for what to get with those last few pts, i'd honestly go with the oblit and look to expand him into a 3-man squad...
i've seen one of my mates use 3 oblits as a guard for his basilisk - anything that deep stikes it just dies! it also gives him a good reserve should his front line falter... the oblits can just walk forwards and engage with whatever weapon he needs.

as your termies will be deep striking, you'll like the heavy flamers you can't assault anyways the turn you come in, and the flamer template can be absolutely brutal if your opponent isn't paying attention and bunches his/her units up! (tau will hate you mind, but that's perfectly okay.lol.)
the only thing you need to be careful about is accidently leaving yourself out of assault range next turn!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Perturabo]

I like that idea for the Obliterators-going to have to try that one!
As for the Land Raider-yes they are a big points soak but can make an attractive fire magnet for your opponent to draw fire off other units and should they survive....!And if you have the points to spare give it demonic possesion and parasitic possesion and it can give your opponent a true headache.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

I like that idea for the Obliterators-going to have to try that one!
As for the Land Raider-yes they are a big points soak but can make an attractive fire magnet for your opponent to draw fire off other units and should they survive....!And if you have the points to spare give it demonic possesion and parasitic possesion and it can give your opponent a true headache.

while i agree parasitic possession is great, i'd never take daemonic possession as;
a) you'll lose the abilty to transport a unit!
b) you already have the 'infernal device' which only needs extra armour added on and then becomes almost just as good as d.possession! (you'll still at least be able to move and assault out of your pretty raider )

cheers!

[Perturabo]

Good point-though personally I rarely use my Raider as a transport!
Predators can be (as said above) a major pain in the neck when they are tooled up with all the Chaos upgrades-Ive had a predator completely regenerate all damage to the disbelief of my opponent-thats when the points pay off!
But back to the origional point-I feel that so mant gamers fail to put enough troops on the table,I know everyone wants the "shiny" goodies to play with but so many times troops can win the day for you-opponents will leave them alone because they are "just troops" when there are more attractive targets and they are so versatile.

[Demilich]

Oh, and a quick question about Deep Striking - Can the units only enter the game at the very start of your turn, ie: before the movement stage? I don't want to get shot up upon exiting the Rhino before my LT can attempt to roll the Terminators in.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

you dont need anyone presnt on the table to roll for DS reserves - the termies can technically come onto the table if you just have one marine or an immobile vehicle

now daemon summoning, thats an other story - banners and icons inside vehicles and off-table do not count for daemon summoning so if all your banners/icons are in vehicles for instance, you cant summon daemons that turn.

but these no such limit on deep striking

[experiment 626]

if you're refering to your teleport homer, then yes in order to use it, it *must* be actually on the table (ie; not in reserves or in a transport!)

so if it's in a transport and your termies become availiable, then they'll scatter normally as deep striking happens before movement...
basically, when you go to deploy your transported unit carrying the homer, park your rhino sideways and deploy the unit behind it now your unit and the model carrying the homer should be safe from enemy fire!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Dan296]

thats what i plan on doing with my zerkers. i have two rhinos, deploy behind them, and next turn summon deamons and the termies teleport in. the rhinos move away and the fun begins.
its a very good tactic and very effective, though it usually blocks the termies LoS so they cant really do anything at all.
but why are you taking termies in a 1000 pt list? i would use those pts for another squad, and to add more to the 6 man squad.