Havocs: Best use?

[Anto_Chaotica]

Being new to CSM I've been wondering how to use Havoc's. Is it best to have groups of 5 with 4 weapons of the same type or different weapons? Or should you make large groups with variability - or large groups of specialization.

Because Obliterators are the equivalent base cost (75pts.) of a five man squad with no upgrades is it better to buy obliterators in place of small groups of havocs. Then have larger groups with a wide range of weaponry - tailored to your opponent. Or is it best to stay with havocs or obliterators? I read some of the Obliterator post and it didn't seem to draw decisive conclusions.

[experiment 626]

a) always keep at the minimum a 1:1 ratio between special/heavy weapon:bolter marine in each havoc squad... not having at least 1 ablative wound model for each heavy/special weapon model means you lose weapons fast!!!

b) always, always, always specialise your squad!!! generalising leads to wasted pts as you'll have weapons that won't be used against their prefered type of target each turn...
so, if you want say, anti-MEQ ability, then take either 3-4 plasma guns or else 3-4 rocket launchers.
need some anti-tank ability? 3-4 lascannons will do just fine!
my favourite, the anti-skimmer/APC load-out which takes 4 autocannons!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Anto_Chaotica]

Thanks (A) makes alot of since, I never thought of including damage soak in my units. Coming from Lizardmen to CSM is a big leap - Heavy Magic > Heavy Weapons.

I was kind'o thinking the specialized unit would be better but I wasn't sure if being to specialized was bad. Thanks again! Helped alot.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Anto_Chaotica

Thanks (A) makes alot of since, I never thought of including damage soak in my units. Coming from Lizardmen to CSM is a big leap - Heavy Magic > Heavy Weapons.

I was kind'o thinking the specialized unit would be better but I wasn't sure if being to specialized was bad. Thanks again! Helped alot.

in general, you should try and specialise your units as much as possible... the nature of a chaos marine is such that he's just as dangerous in the shooting phase as he is in the assault phase! (as his basic equipment covers both roles...)
the problem with trying to go for a havoc unit which can kill both hoards 7 tanks is this;
- 8 havocs w/2x rocket launcher & 2x heavy bolter
so, while the rocket launcher's blast template is fine against hoards of infantry and will kill almost as well as the heavy bolter, against any kind of decent vehicle, the heavy bolters sit silent as they can't scratch anything beyond av11. (against which the rocket launcher is a bit over-kill!)

now, this isn't to say that a 'generalist' unit can't be achieved! try out 4 autocannons for example. this gives us a total of 8 S7 ap4 shots/turn. the only thing we can't hurt is av14, while we're much less effective against av13 as well. but, we can kill lots of infantry fairly well - even marines thanks to the fact that almost all hits will wound! we can deal most effectively with skimmers as we need volume of fire over insane high S! and transports will hide in fear as our autocannons go through them like a hot knife through butter!

hope this helps,
cheers!

[Chaos Lord Horus]

yea man, if you know your army is based around close combat(Khorne zerker army)
then your gonna want somthing to bust up the tanks, so use 3 lascannons 1 missile laucher(uses krak) and one normal dude , but make sure you place them where they hard to hitso they can last the battle

[hashulaman]

Hello all

I have 2 havoc sqauds, one has 2 autocannons and 2 heavy bolters. the other one has 2 missle launchers and 2 lascannons. So even though both are speciallized, the ML/LC one can fire frag missles if need be, and autocannons can take out lightly armed vehicles if need be. Even a heavy bolter in theory can destroy a rhino on a glance.

[kenshin620]

Originally Posted by hashulaman

Even a heavy bolter in theory can destroy a rhino on a glance.

Except in 5th ed

[hairyyahoo]

i find a squad of 6-8 tooled up with 2 missile launchers and 2 autocannon is a pretty decent all rounder for ranged anhilation . the autocannon have a good enough strength and high enough rate of fire to worry anything that ain't a heavy tank (and even they'd better watch out for side/rear shots) while the missile launchers are as versitile as a heavy weapon gets. the only things this type of setup will struggle with are carnifaxes and wraithlords who both have a high enough toughness and good enough save to shrug off more of the shots.

[Chaos Lord Horus]

true.....NEVER equip a havoc sqaud with flamers only, its just a stupid waste!

[hairyyahoo]

erm...beg to differ. nothing says hoard control like a rhino full of flamers

[hashulaman]

With 5th ed having you roll scatter dice for blasts, frag missles have lost alot of potency. Since you can overshoot a target by several inches, on the good side, you don't have to roll to catch, if a model is touching the template in anyway, its hit.