New Chaos 'Dex: THE FINAL VERDICT - Page 2 - 40K Terra

God_Grinder · 09-09-2007

well gav himself comented about chaos codexes for the traitor legions. ie' codex: world eadters, codex: death guard, codex: iron warriors and so on and so forth. so hopefully later in 08 we will see more. it only makes sence seing as thats the way they have done all the loyal chapters. i personaly hope they go that rout than try to add it all in the daemon book.

Dragoon King · 09-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Grinder

well gav himself comented about chaos codexes for the traitor legions. ie' codex: world eadters, codex: death guard, codex: iron warriors and so on and so forth. so hopefully later in 08 we will see more. it only makes sence seing as thats the way they have done all the loyal chapters. i personaly hope they go that rout than try to add it all in the daemon book.

Couldn't agree more. I hope they bring out dexs for each legion, cause this one focuses more on renegades. Anyone got the date for the Daemon dex? Hopefully Black Legion will be the first of the Legion codices!

Perturabo · 09-09-2007

I hope they dont try and squeeze into the Daemon dex as some legions dont really use deamons- Iron Warriors being my prime example, maybe they will use a legion such as the Word Bearers as the "Flagship" list for that dex...?

Lord Commander Erus · 09-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Couldn't agree more. I hope they bring out dexs for each legion, cause this one focuses more on renegades. Anyone got the date for the Daemon dex? Hopefully Black Legion will be the first of the Legion codices!

they said that Black Legion is represented by the current dex, I believe.

Dragoon King · 09-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perturabo

I hope they dont try and squeeze into the Daemon dex as some legions dont really use deamons- Iron Warriors being my prime example, maybe they will use a legion such as the Word Bearers as the "Flagship" list for that dex...?

I think the new dex killed a lot of the character of Iron Warriors. They are know as seige warfare specialists, but they don't even get Basilisks and everyone can use Vidicators (not that I'm complaining, hehe). Even lost the Seige specialist veteran skill. Hopefully there will be a legion specific dex that will give the IW back some character (they are close to my heart, as I started out playing them).

masterofweirdness · 09-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

I think the new dex killed a lot of the character of Iron Warriors. They are know as seige warfare specialists, but they don't even get Basilisks and everyone can use Vidicators (not that I'm complaining, hehe). Even lost the Seige specialist veteran skill. Hopefully there will be a legion specific dex that will give the IW back some character (they are close to my heart, as I started out playing them).

I won't disagree... but didn't the Night Lords get nerfed pretty badly? What about the Alpha Legion?

Not saying that I'm mad or anything, I think most people were prepared for the worst, but still, some of the more just "bad" (not really chaos, I suppose) legions got nerfed badly, not just the IW.

Oh, and as for specific legion codices... I doubt it. While it would be cool, I think the best thing you can hope for is Codex: Lost and the Damned (plus daemons stuff) and Codex: Traitor Legions, which would contain all the legions not already represented in the above mentioned books (that is to say, the Black Legion, and possibly the World Bearers), providing better rules than already given for Cult Legions, and non-cult legions.

At least, that's what I think, given what news and quotes I've read.

Lord Commander Erus · 09-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

I won't disagree... but didn't the Night Lords get nerfed pretty badly? What about the Alpha Legion?

Not saying that I'm mad or anything, I think most people were prepared for the worst, but still, some of the more just "bad" (not really chaos, I suppose) legions got nerfed badly, not just the IW.

Oh, and as for specific legion codices... I doubt it. While it would be cool, I think the best thing you can hope for is Codex: Lost and the Damned (plus daemons stuff) and Codex: Traitor Legions, which would contain all the legions not already represented in the above mentioned books (that is to say, the Black Legion, and possibly the World Bearers), providing better rules than already given for Cult Legions, and non-cult legions.

At least, that's what I think, given what news and quotes I've read.

Gav did mention specifically they were going to push and try for Legion specific dexs so they could give the forces the background and such they deserved.

masterofweirdness · 09-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus.

Gav did mention specifically they were going to push and try for Legion specific dexs so they could give the forces the background and such they deserved.

hmmm.... I think I missed that, and was thinking about the quote were someone (gav???) said (paraphrased), "if we make a codex or army book, that army will exist for as long as GW produces 40k and WFB, which means, we will think long and hard before making a new codex, because of all the work it adds, and how much work we already have."

Perturabo · 09-10-2007

And god forbid they actualy produce somthing the fanbase wants...!

DeAd_cOmMaNdO · 09-10-2007

regardless of the missing auspexes, twin lightning claws for sergeants and things like servo arms for iron warriors etc. AND NO NURGLINGS

i like it.

i like it a lot

Heroka Vendile · 09-10-2007

Like i said earlier, I think the most likely thing will be White Dwarf mini-codex's for each legion - with an actual Codex:Legions many years off (or even into next edition of the game).

experiment 626 · 09-10-2007

well, god-specific codicies is a definate plan amongst the design team. however, i feel that that's as far as it would go... looking at our store's shelf space, if every legion got their own book, we'd need to add 2 more shelf units to the 40k 'dexes section of the store just for all the chaos books! plus, you'd need the shelf space for the inevitable 'upgrade sprue sets' to give your marines their proper iconography... (and if gw doesn't produce a specific sprue set for each legion, then you can imagine all the complaining that would lead too!)
in short, there's no room in the stores for upto 10 potential chaos books! we'd end up having your 'general games workshop store' & then next to it would be the 'space marines & chaos marines games workshop store'!

the white dwarf article idea would likely be the more realistic idea to give the non-marked legions their own rules back however...

cheers!

Heroka Vendile · 09-10-2007

here's a point though, why do all the chaos legions deserve a codex/official army list? most of the loyalist legions-turned-chapters don't have much about them, just fluff and the odd special character if they're lucky.

Sure, that's cos 30% of them follow the Codex anyway, but they each have their own very distinct histories, beliefs, fighting styles and attitudes to things - why would a chaos legion deserve a detailed list more than one of the redundant loyalist legions? (such as Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists).

The natural counter argument is to say; well BT, SW, DA + BA (and to a lesser and now no-longer usable extent, Salamanders) have all had codex releases, why have chaos never had any?

Answer: because of player base. GW was never a big enough company in the past - now tho, with the development of miniature modelling and plastics tech, they could easily take a model from concept to shop release within 6 months.
Just look at Apocalypse - in my mind they've had that idea cooking in head office for at least two years, but wanted to get used to all the new plastic tech they had first - not to mention the computer modelling they do as well now (allowing rapid prototyping - something that really can shave weeks/months off of projects).

EDIT:
I rambled a bit there. oh well.

Ides · 09-10-2007

But not every legion needs its own dex. Ideally word bearers should be dealt with Codex Daemons or Forces of Chaos, and the God Specific legions could be dealt with in God specific codexes. As for Night Lords, Alpha legion and IW, I can't really see it happening...

Lord Commander Erus · 09-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ides

But not every legion needs its own dex. Ideally word bearers should be dealt with Codex Daemons or Forces of Chaos, and the God Specific legions could be dealt with in God specific codexes. As for Night Lords, Alpha legion and IW, I can't really see it happening...

Nor can I, except for Alpha being able to take LatD type allies. Night Lords don't need special rules, sorry for you guys. Not nessecary. IW however, I strongly feel do.

Ides · 09-10-2007

What could be done with them though? New units? Access to other options? Could be done through a WD update really...

experiment 626 · 09-10-2007

the main thing that sets iron warriors apart is their siege warfare specialisation... now, in all honesty, most of the benifits of the siege specialist skill only rarely crop up in actual game-play... very few tournaments for example use things like fortifications and even fewer players themselves play anything beyond the general missions.
there's still the index astartes books you can back order for the background, but as for actual rules, i don't think it's really nessessary as the current list allows proper themed armies... (and there's also no way in feth that iron warriors are ever getting that damn 4th heavy support choice back!!!)

cheers!

Perturabo · 09-10-2007

A good Iron warriors lord doesnt need that 4th Heavy Support choice or 9 obliterators! and when I find him Ill tell to tell you why lo

Templar Mikeel · 09-10-2007

Who all has the new Chaos 'dex? I'll need to ask some questions on unit size and such for the mod I'm working on.

Ides · 09-11-2007

I have it...

experiment 626 · 09-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Templar Mikeel

Who all has the new Chaos 'dex? I'll need to ask some questions on unit size and such for the mod I'm working on.

i will have it by friday provided our order comes into the store before 9pm... (yes, i get it early now!

)

cheers!

View Poll Results: chaos codex: good or bad?
Yes! I'm happy with it	20	95.24%
No!! Its trash	1	4.76%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

09-09-2007	#31 (permalink)
God_Grinder Corporal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: socal Posts: 309 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 3 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	well gav himself comented about chaos codexes for the traitor legions. ie' codex: world eadters, codex: death guard, codex: iron warriors and so on and so forth. so hopefully later in 08 we will see more. it only makes sence seing as thats the way they have done all the loyal chapters. i personaly hope they go that rout than try to add it all in the daemon book. __________________ Let the galaxy be illuminated, As it burns!!!

09-09-2007	#33 (permalink)
Perturabo Tyrant of Moray Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eye Of Terror Posts: 1,286 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 106 Times in 48 Posts Blog Entries: 4	I hope they dont try and squeeze into the Daemon dex as some legions dont really use deamons- Iron Warriors being my prime example, maybe they will use a legion such as the Word Bearers as the "Flagship" list for that dex...? __________________ the_iron_warriors@yahoo.co.uk Experts in Siege Works....we also do Patios and Drives My Camera caught the Obliterator Virus...shooting some pictures took on a whole new meaning!

09-10-2007	#39 (permalink)
Perturabo Tyrant of Moray Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eye Of Terror Posts: 1,286 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 106 Times in 48 Posts Blog Entries: 4	And god forbid they actualy produce somthing the fanbase wants...! __________________ the_iron_warriors@yahoo.co.uk Experts in Siege Works....we also do Patios and Drives My Camera caught the Obliterator Virus...shooting some pictures took on a whole new meaning!

09-10-2007	#41 (permalink)
Heroka Vendile Sergeant Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Inquisitorial Fortress, near Glasgow Posts: 722 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 53 Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts	Like i said earlier, I think the most likely thing will be White Dwarf mini-codex's for each legion - with an actual Codex:Legions many years off (or even into next edition of the game). __________________ My Projects: Nova Legion CSM ToXG My Reviews: Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Pavillion Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Forum Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Arena Forgeworld Renegrade Ogryn with D.K.K. Victim Other: My Advice to Inquisitor players. Graham McNeill - "After all, it beats tossing in bed all night for no result."

09-10-2007	#40 (permalink)
DeAd_cOmMaNdO Conscript Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 88 Thanked 62 Times in 69 Posts Blog Entries: 5	regardless of the missing auspexes, twin lightning claws for sergeants and things like servo arms for iron warriors etc. AND NO NURGLINGS i like it. i like it a lot

09-10-2007	#42 (permalink)
experiment 626 Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto! Posts: 3,148 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 40 Thanked 310 Times in 223 Posts	well, god-specific codicies is a definate plan amongst the design team. however, i feel that that's as far as it would go... looking at our store's shelf space, if every legion got their own book, we'd need to add 2 more shelf units to the 40k 'dexes section of the store just for all the chaos books! plus, you'd need the shelf space for the inevitable 'upgrade sprue sets' to give your marines their proper iconography... (and if gw doesn't produce a specific sprue set for each legion, then you can imagine all the complaining that would lead too!) in short, there's no room in the stores for upto 10 potential chaos books! we'd end up having your 'general games workshop store' & then next to it would be the 'space marines & chaos marines games workshop store'! the white dwarf article idea would likely be the more realistic idea to give the non-marked legions their own rules back however... cheers! __________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion

09-10-2007	#43 (permalink)
Heroka Vendile Sergeant Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Inquisitorial Fortress, near Glasgow Posts: 722 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 53 Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts	here's a point though, why do all the chaos legions deserve a codex/official army list? most of the loyalist legions-turned-chapters don't have much about them, just fluff and the odd special character if they're lucky. Sure, that's cos 30% of them follow the Codex anyway, but they each have their own very distinct histories, beliefs, fighting styles and attitudes to things - why would a chaos legion deserve a detailed list more than one of the redundant loyalist legions? (such as Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars, Imperial Fists). The natural counter argument is to say; well BT, SW, DA + BA (and to a lesser and now no-longer usable extent, Salamanders) have all had codex releases, why have chaos never had any? Answer: because of player base. GW was never a big enough company in the past - now tho, with the development of miniature modelling and plastics tech, they could easily take a model from concept to shop release within 6 months. Just look at Apocalypse - in my mind they've had that idea cooking in head office for at least two years, but wanted to get used to all the new plastic tech they had first - not to mention the computer modelling they do as well now (allowing rapid prototyping - something that really can shave weeks/months off of projects). EDIT: I rambled a bit there. oh well. __________________ My Projects: Nova Legion CSM ToXG My Reviews: Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Pavillion Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Forum Games Day UK 2007 Report - The Arena Forgeworld Renegrade Ogryn with D.K.K. Victim Other: My Advice to Inquisitor players. Graham McNeill - "After all, it beats tossing in bed all night for no result."

09-10-2007	#44 (permalink)
Ides Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,126 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts Blog Entries: 4	But not every legion needs its own dex. Ideally word bearers should be dealt with Codex Daemons or Forces of Chaos, and the God Specific legions could be dealt with in God specific codexes. As for Night Lords, Alpha legion and IW, I can't really see it happening... __________________ 'Do it?' Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago. For sale: One soul. Mint Condition, never been used.

09-10-2007	#46 (permalink)
Ides Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,126 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts Blog Entries: 4	What could be done with them though? New units? Access to other options? Could be done through a WD update really... __________________ 'Do it?' Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago. For sale: One soul. Mint Condition, never been used.

09-10-2007	#47 (permalink)
experiment 626 Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto! Posts: 3,148 Rep Power: 4 Thanks: 40 Thanked 310 Times in 223 Posts	the main thing that sets iron warriors apart is their siege warfare specialisation... now, in all honesty, most of the benifits of the siege specialist skill only rarely crop up in actual game-play... very few tournaments for example use things like fortifications and even fewer players themselves play anything beyond the general missions. there's still the index astartes books you can back order for the background, but as for actual rules, i don't think it's really nessessary as the current list allows proper themed armies... (and there's also no way in feth that iron warriors are ever getting that damn 4th heavy support choice back!!!) cheers! __________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion

09-10-2007	#48 (permalink)
Perturabo Tyrant of Moray Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eye Of Terror Posts: 1,286 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 106 Times in 48 Posts Blog Entries: 4	A good Iron warriors lord doesnt need that 4th Heavy Support choice or 9 obliterators! and when I find him Ill tell to tell you why lo __________________ the_iron_warriors@yahoo.co.uk Experts in Siege Works....we also do Patios and Drives My Camera caught the Obliterator Virus...shooting some pictures took on a whole new meaning!

09-11-2007	#50 (permalink)
Ides Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,126 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 19 Thanked 49 Times in 47 Posts Blog Entries: 4	I have it... __________________ 'Do it?' Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago. For sale: One soul. Mint Condition, never been used.