5th Edition - More More More in store

[Ikarus]

From Ordofanaticus:

SOME STORES GOT 5th EDITION RULEBOOK ALREADY.

Tau got a real boost in the new rules. Jetpacks now allow heavy weapons to move and fire (Sniper Drones and Network Markerlights anyone?)

Frag grenades are actually cool now, especially wit the right rules in place.

Victory points is, in essence, done away with in favor of objectives, though of course, anyone is free to play any way they want in my opinion.

TROOP CHOICES very SPECIFICALLY are the only units that can TAKE an objective and you must be within 3" to claim one.

At the end of turn 5, you start rolling to see if the game ends. No more 6 turn "standard" games.

Reserve Special ruls is in effect in all standard missions now. Very cool.

Rules create some interesting problems for line of sight. The Dreadnaughts werethe example that captured our attention for some time.

Deepstriking is very ork-goofy. If even one model lands in impassible terrain/enemies, etc, there is a table to see what happens. You will eaither lose the entire unit OR it will go back in reserve OR the opponent can now CHOOSE where to place you.

Pistols are now just assault 1 basically.

Powerfists, Thunderhammers and the like do not gain an extra attack for having a pistol etc... They must have a second like weapon in order to gain the bonus attack.

Force Weapons got GIMPED. It now does Instant Death. There wont be many of those around I imagine after this.

Vehicles get a cover SAVE of 4+ when they are obscured. If its IN DOUBT between the players, they get the save at 5+

Vehicles got slowed WAY down and Defensive weapons are now defined as str 4. Lame. Between the two changes its going to make for a lot of dead tanks.

Rending is changed. Now you have to roll a 6 to WOUND in order to cause Rending. On vehicles you add an extra d3 to it. Interestingly all assaults on vehicles are considered to be against the back armor, not the side you assaulted. Also interesting is that Dreadnaughts still fight at front armor value in melee, BUT if immobilized we see no rule that you auto hit them anywhere, so immobilizing does not appear ot be nough to give you the win.

Terrain is poorly defined and the "levels" concept seems to have been nuked in favor of literal line of sight. Area terrain does not work the same.

Like Fantasy, they changed to a 2" instead of 6" sight distance through area terrain, so Kroot are going to reign supreme in the woods.

Based on some of the rules we saw, Dark Eldar are going to be really fast and mean.

Blast templates are done one at a time in barrages instead of "flipping" FROM THE FIRST ONE.

RAMMING tanks has been instituted and you can really demolish enemy tanks this way. The rules are fairly brutal and you should have good cause to fear a Land Raider.

Every wound you lost by reduces your leadership for the break test in melee, ala Fantasy. So lose by 6, -6 to your lreadership check. On units that are fearless, you take that many wounds instead (normal saves apply). Sound familiar, Vampire players?

Outnumbering has been eliminated as a penalty.

Singular damage table as predicted. Seems a decent enough solution.

Open topped vehicles not "vulnerable to blast templates".

No more of this "nipping" stufff. Now when you charge, the enemy then immediately piles in 6" as well! Therefore while three Sisters of Battle might have been all that would have been engaged in 4th Edition because the charge barely reached them, now almost the entire unit of sisters will attack right along with you.

If I assault a tank on my assault phase and it does not move away in its turn, then in IT'S assault phase, my unit gets to attack it again as if it were locked (even though it can in fact leave anytime). Thus once charged, tanks will wisely want to back away but this will screw them for shooting.

You can fire Ordinance OR all weapons if you dont move. If you move up to 6, it's one weapon and all defensive. if over six, none.

Fast Vehicles go 18. Fast Skimmers (specifically) can go faster.

Skimmers can avoid a Ramming attempt on a 3+.

several independent characters are allowed to glom together to form super units if you desire.

Members of Squadrons that are immobilized are instead counted as destroyed. In addition, Squadrons treat Stunned as shaken instead.

You allocate hits to individual models.

They didn't fix the "free move" from Transports. That was very disappointing.

Bikes turboboosting now get COVER saves rather than invulnerable saves (sorry Grey Knights).

Deepstriking into difficult terrain now requires a Dangerous Terrain Test.

[Vlad Von Carstein]

ya my local gw has the copy of 5th hidden in the back on the managers desk -.- ,you forgot to add the fact everyone can run! and that gausse weapons get hosed T_T

[kenshin620]

Well, this is NEW information Vald. Everyone already knew we can run. Wow, time to change up the armies AGAIN.

[Astral Claw 126]

GOOOOOO!!!!! Sweet on some stuff, your royalness!!!! Hmmm...now I have actual reason to start Dark Eldar. Now if only they would release a new dex....

[caesar_uec]

I may as well quit my IG and will definately quit my armoured company. God I hate that def weapon crap and always assualting on the rear. Leman russ are straight out now. I hope tank points are dropped in respect to their lessened capabilities. time to start oiling down the splinter rifles

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

Some nice stuff there m'lord.

Although should it not read "Force Weapons got PIMPED" instead of "GIMPED"?

[JoeGuardsman]

Yeah something we have to think about when considering the new rules and "gimping" is should it have been able to do that in the first place.

Necron basic weapons killing tanks = No.
Skimmers being nigh invulnerable and being able to move, shoot and still be protected = No.
Rending being the be all and end all = No.

There are going to be problems with this edition just like last edition.

I didn't like nearly everything I read in the Close Combat Phase. No more consolidating into fresh combats means that CC units are going to be hung out to dry even though they can run and the Counter Assault rule means that everyone on one side is likely to die.

I also didn't like the nearly unlimited tank shocking that was afforded to fast vehicles.

[themandalorian]

So if you had to say. How do you like it

better

worse

or the same for you?



and i'm still getting tau don't you worry i have 550 dollars for it oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[JoeGuardsman]

I think the game is different completely and just a hair better. The scenarios and scoring units make the game so different.

I've been dominating my games but haven't been able to get anything but a draw. One Dire Avenger claiming an objective and my Guard being too slow even with the run rule have kept me from my objectives.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by caesar_uec

I may as well quit my IG and will definately quit my armoured company. God I hate that def weapon crap and always assualting on the rear. Leman russ are straight out now. I hope tank points are dropped in respect to their lessened capabilities. time to start oiling down the splinter rifles

erm, that's a wee bit harsh i think... having been actually playing with the new rules for a few weeks nows, i can safely tell you that you simply need to change your tactics with your tanks.
- you can't die to those jammy glancing hits anymore! (so for example, you're not screwed against all necron armies!)

- front line battletanks can now use their bulk as a true weapon. (tank shock got a bit nastier!)
another tactic our resident treadhead has developed is to use all his armour as a single hammerblow up a flank or strait up the middle of the table... 1st turn it rolls up, lets loose with a big gun and then sits for a turn guns blazing.
combine that with faster transports who only have one or two guns anyways plus the supporting infantry and the guard can really run roughshod over you if you're not carefull!

- skimmers got dumbed down to where they should be - fast but fragile. eldar tanks for example have always been classed as the most advanced, but also some of the most fragile things out there! so now they really are; those holofields are still annoying sure, but they no longer make the tank invincible!
oh, and against skimmers, bring flamers - lots of big flamers!

- transports are no longer coffins. entanglement is no longer automatic - it's a strait pinning test, so 'fearless' units ignore it compleatly! (as they should in all honesty!) also, more resiliant passengers like plague marines and wraithguard are now far less vulnerable to their transport being shot out from under them...

- ramming is a blast! yes, it is slightly possible for a wave serpent to take out a land raider, but the wave serpent is so f#*%ed!
basically, you add +1S for each point of armour over 10 that your tanks has, plus +1S for every 3" you move... the tank getting hit does the same. (using the armour value of the facing that's getting hit!) so sure, moving flat out full speed a wave serpent can put a S10+D6 hit on a land raider, but it's taking a S12+D6 hit in return! (ie: auto pen!) and no, the wave serpent can't 'dogde' out of the way when it's initiating the ram!!!

so really, tanks have gotten better in alot of ways! the real thing they lose is the ability to move nearly flat out and fire a massive amount of shots... they just need proper support now to protect them - especially from enemy infantry!

cheers!

[kenshin620]

I wish mounted untis would get extra attacks

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by kenshin620

I wish mounted untis would get extra attacks

beasts and cavalry all get fleet - that's a pretty good bonus in and of itself!

but yes, a unit like rough riders are still way overpriced for what little benifit they might have...

cheers!