5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT - Page 5 - 40K Terra

Khadhar'phak · 01-21-2008

Snipers... Rending... Scouts are troops...

I suddenly feel all tingly inside

Personally I'm in the "Tanks should be unstoppable to infantry" camp, but I'm also in the "if that's the case we make them armies on their own!" camp. I never did like the Vehicle rules in 3rd/4th ed. It always seemed like tamk heavy armies would instantly abuse their power (You know who you are Swampy... Weep at these new rules!) Now all of a sudden my dreams of leading an infantry force and actually succeeding seems viable!

Only one thing worries me: S4 defensive weapons... ¬_¬ Yeah, THAT makes sense. A 50. is definitely comparable in carnage to a Storm Bolter...

Ah well, I'll still get the rulebook.I play for the company, not the winning

Lord Commander Erus · 01-21-2008

It just feths over current power gaming and such, so naturally those who exploited the broken rules and changes will gripe.

Lord_Tyrion · 01-21-2008

if i want enlightenment, i will damn well ask for it!

I live in ignorance and i am proud

Im joking, for those of you ill used to my foul sense of humour

Cirative · 01-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

Personally I'm in the "Tanks should be unstoppable to infantry" camp...

Yeah, I agree to an extent.

However, this is how the game would go:
-Deploy troops and tanks.
-Tanks A attack Tanks B, Troops A attack Troops B.
-Tanks A destroy Tanks B. Then Tanks A helps Troops A attack Troops B.
-Troops B fight both Troops A and (vainly) Tanks A.

So, it'd end up with one side left of only troops, and the other side with troops and some tanks left just absolutely massacring the opposition.

In real life standards, yeah a tank should be nearly indestructible to a normal soldier. But in the fairness of a fictional tabletop game, it should still be possible. Otherwise it'd be a "whoever can kill the other side's tanks first wins" strategy.

iNsOmNiAc'S dReAm · 01-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Tyrion

if i want enlightenment, i will damn well ask for it!

I live in ignorance and i am proud

Im joking, for those of you ill used to my foul sense of humour

Lol Well as they say... Ignorance is bliss I guess lol...

Khadhar'phak · 01-21-2008

Ahh let 'em. Some children feel the need to be difficult and stubborn (bless their little cotton socks

) I just realised something else! Orks have suddenly become SO much more survivable! Now is the time to relive those GorkaMorka moments from our youths!

You have to admit though Erus. They did complain more about 4th ed then this revision

Edit: Oh and Cirative: "but I'm also in the "if that's the case we make them armies on their own!" " I'm not THAT short-sighted. Despite what my prescription says

Baron Spikey · 01-21-2008

With the amount of anti-tank infantry portable weapons in 40K it makes sense that tanks shouldn't be as uber-tough as they're currently. Its the reason you have such huge tank companies in fluff, 1 tank alone is pretty screwed....

Wakim · 01-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirative

Yeah, I agree to an extent.

However, this is how the game would go:
-Deploy troops and tanks.
-Tanks A attack Tanks B, Troops A attack Troops B.
-Tanks A destroy Tanks B. Then Tanks A helps Troops A attack Troops B.
-Troops B fight both Troops A and (vainly) Tanks A.

So, it'd end up with one side left of only troops, and the other side with troops and some tanks left just absolutely massacring the opposition.

In real life standards, yeah a tank should be nearly indestructible to a normal soldier. But in the fairness of a fictional tabletop game, it should still be possible. Otherwise it'd be a "whoever can kill the other side's tanks first wins" strategy.

all fine and dandy untill someone brings troops wiedling tank busting weapons to the table

Lord Commander Erus · 01-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

Ahh let 'em. Some children feel the need to be difficult and stubborn (bless their little cotton socks

) I just realised something else! Orks have suddenly become SO much more survivable! Now is the time to relive those GorkaMorka moments from our youths!

You have to admit though Erus. They did complain more about 4th ed then this revision

Edit: Oh and Cirative: "but I'm also in the "if that's the case we make them armies on their own!" " I'm not THAT short-sighted. Despite what my prescription says

Though I wasn't active in the game (just awestruck and watching my friends dad play because I couldn't afford them, and there was no way I was allowed to use his.. too damn much time in them).. I do indeed remember the nashing of teeht @ 3rd, and 4th.

Cirative · 01-21-2008

Touche.

masterofweirdness · 01-21-2008

Like cirative said... this rules are problably late alpha/early beta... so most of this is tenative. Some will stay, some will be removed, some will be changed...

Most of the stuff is postive... some isn't... wait until the rules are confirmed by GW before getting to angry.

And remember... 40k is realistic... at best, its an attempt to combine fantasy and reality into a futuristic game that is supposed to be balanced and fun for both players... if this means that tanks are not to powerful... or infantry is unrealistically so... so be it... thats the price we pay for a balanced game...

Dravenguild · 01-21-2008

My anger is momentarily sated.

*Presses activation stud and revs chainaxe*

Astrotrain · 01-21-2008

I hope tread heads get some thing like attacks from the armored company list.And whats this non-sense I hear about all enemy attacks on tanks count as being on the rear armor facing?

Ikarus · 01-21-2008

Ramming - Tank move like tank shock - Tanks must move full distance always.
Inflicts Str. hit to vehicles

The Vehicle RAmming will inflict the STR. hit based on these bonuses~
The RAmming Vehicle will alsow SUFFER, the same hit back.

Each point of armor over 10 - +1 Strength each
EAch Full 3'' moved by ramming vehicle - +1 Strength each
Tank - + 1

For example: a Land Raider is ramming an enemy
Chimera, hitting it in the side. The Land Raider has a
frontal armour of 14 (4 points over 10, for a total of
+4), has moved 10” before reaching the Chimera (for
an extra +3) and is a Tank (+1). The Chimera suffers a
Strength 8 hit against its side armour. At the same time
the Land Raider suffers a Strength 4 hit against its
frontal armour (+0 for the Chimera’s side armour of 10,
+3 for the Land Raider’s own speed and +1 because
the Chimera is a Tank).

Astrotrain · 01-21-2008

whats the Initiative of tanks or is that something to be listed on the codex?

Ikarus · 01-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotrain

whats the Initiative of tanks or is that something to be listed on the codex?

It would be simult. The tank ramming, will inflict and receive damage.

For example: a Land Raider is ramming an enemy
Chimera, hitting it in the side. The Land Raider has a
frontal armour of 14 (4 points over 10, for a total of
+4), has moved 10” before reaching the Chimera (for
an extra +3) and is a Tank (+1). The Chimera suffers a
Strength 8 hit against its side armour. At the same time
the Land Raider suffers a Strength 4 hit against its
frontal armour (+0 for the Chimera’s side armour of 10,
+3 for the Land Raider’s own speed and +1 because
the Chimera is a Tank).

Astrotrain · 01-21-2008

Thanks maybe I won't chip in my leman russ tanks yet!

Baron Spikey · 01-21-2008

well Landraiders just became my favourite tank of all time- aim for your opponents main tank, full move of 12" giving you a str.9 hit and then unloading the belly full of terminators right into the enemy lines.

kenshin620 · 01-21-2008

ramming tanks? *starts making suicide rammers*

Baron Spikey · 01-21-2008

From what I've heard on the net the PDF of the '5th' edition floating around is actually slightly older than the rumours the majority of us first heard- basically the any differences between this Alpha preleak and the rumours....the rumours are the more up to date version that was changed after 'Alpha'.

GriplionGremlin · 01-21-2008

hmm....5th ed......

my biggest issue with this leak is that over the last 7 1/2 years i've been playing 40k i've seen only two consistancies with anything that GW puts out.

1. a pendulum swing.
2. lack of thought or quality playtesting.

my reason:

1. when gw releases a new rule set or codex its full bore for that army or game. there isnt much middle ground on the rules. either they are loved by those who can use and abuse them or hated for those who can't and feel they get used or abused by them.

2. gw has designers who are so inept at the game they design that they cant even win a game. come on folks no one out here who plays the game is that bad!! if you design it but you dont know how to play it doesn't that show you shouldn't have your job!!!!!!!!!

i think gw does purposefully leak release info to get some outside info. how ever i think they would be much better served by instead of leaking the info out to hear everyones b*tches and complaints or thier praises they should send the info to the local gw stores and battle bunkers and host special games using the new info and gamestore armies and record the info of how the games go. and they could ask the folks who participate to fill out a survey on the new rules/dex etc and then use that info to update the test rules to come up with something more balanced.

an i'm sorry ID but i disagree with your idea that games rules need a change to keep the game going. any rules that create issues or problems yes they need to be changed but if gw took some serious time to evaluate thier product and whats right/wrong with it and release the core rules and the different armies at the same time instead of over multiple years where the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth with overpowered then nerfed then reoverpoered and renerfed armies they would find thier loyal customers staying loyal and able to bring more folks into the game instead of discourgaging them by hearing "its nice you like that army but you better wait xx until the new dex is out to see if you still like them".

well thats just my $20s worth since i couldn't keep it short enough for $.02 worth...

in the end i'll still play 40k. i still play chaos after losing my favorite army but gaining big bonuses to my 2nd favorite. i'll still play yet i know so far the 1/4 of the guys i play with are saying they're done if these rules go to print.

Brother Warchild · 01-21-2008

They wont quit they will just B.tch and cry and still play.Theres no way we are gonna get a rule set that everyone agree's on.And if someone will stop playing becouse of a few rules they dont like and not becouse they are paying 55 bucks+tax for 5 minis they need a head check.

Dragoon King · 01-21-2008

I'm hoping the new ed. will be easier to use.

r4wr89 · 01-21-2008

what's nice about the ramming is that now you have something to do with that one rhino whose squad got killed. just roll it into something, you won't lose anything, and can potentially gain a killed enemy tank ! i like the fact that longer distances moved is incorporated, cause that makes a lot of sense. alas, i won't be able to ram much, my marine horde is devoid of tanks [naturally, lol]

01-21-2008	#121 (permalink)
Khadhar'phak Trooper Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southend, Essex, England. Originally from Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland Posts: 77 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT Snipers... Rending... Scouts are troops... I suddenly feel all tingly inside Personally I'm in the "Tanks should be unstoppable to infantry" camp, but I'm also in the "if that's the case we make them armies on their own!" camp. I never did like the Vehicle rules in 3rd/4th ed. It always seemed like tamk heavy armies would instantly abuse their power (You know who you are Swampy... Weep at these new rules!) Now all of a sudden my dreams of leading an infantry force and actually succeeding seems viable! Only one thing worries me: S4 defensive weapons... ¬_¬ Yeah, THAT makes sense. A 50. is definitely comparable in carnage to a Storm Bolter... Ah well, I'll still get the rulebook.I play for the company, not the winning __________________ O'er the Hills and O'er the Main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey! Over the hills, and far away...

01-21-2008	#122 (permalink)
Lord Commander Erus First Chaplain Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 6,395 Rep Power: 6 Thanks: 170 Thanked 343 Times in 223 Posts Blog Entries: 5	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT It just feths over current power gaming and such, so naturally those who exploited the broken rules and changes will gripe. __________________ "Truth is infinite. It is defined by our perception of the facts; therefore we can never know absolute truth, we can only guess at it. A man who knows he has done no wrong needs no redemption, regardless of the views of others. The truth is what he believes it to be. A man who knows he has done wrong can only be redeemed when he chooses to forgive himself." -Lord Inquisitor Balkoth Black Saints Adeptus Astartes Chapter

01-21-2008	#123 (permalink)
Lord_Tyrion Trooper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Holy Terra Posts: 126 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT if i want enlightenment, i will damn well ask for it! I live in ignorance and i am proud Im joking, for those of you ill used to my foul sense of humour __________________ I am Daevontus, Lord of Angels!

01-21-2008	#126 (permalink)
Khadhar'phak Trooper Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southend, Essex, England. Originally from Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland Posts: 77 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT Ahh let 'em. Some children feel the need to be difficult and stubborn (bless their little cotton socks ) I just realised something else! Orks have suddenly become SO much more survivable! Now is the time to relive those GorkaMorka moments from our youths! You have to admit though Erus. They did complain more about 4th ed then this revision Edit: Oh and Cirative: "but I'm also in the "if that's the case we make them armies on their own!" " I'm not THAT short-sighted. Despite what my prescription says __________________ O'er the Hills and O'er the Main, Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey! Over the hills, and far away... Last edited by Khadhar'phak; 01-21-2008 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Noticed a post...

01-21-2008	#127 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,575 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT With the amount of anti-tank infantry portable weapons in 40K it makes sense that tanks shouldn't be as uber-tough as they're currently. Its the reason you have such huge tank companies in fluff, 1 tank alone is pretty screwed....

01-21-2008	#130 (permalink)
Cirative Corporal Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 492 Rep Power: 1 Thanks: 36 Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT Touche. __________________ <img border="0" src="http://sigs.planetsidestats.net/sig.php?world_id=15&char_id=640717">

01-21-2008	#132 (permalink)
Dravenguild Corporal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 262 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 90 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT My anger is momentarily sated. Presses activation stud and revs chainaxe __________________ Chapter Master of The Iron Templars

01-21-2008	#133 (permalink)
Astrotrain Trooper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 88 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT I hope tread heads get some thing like attacks from the armored company list.And whats this non-sense I hear about all enemy attacks on tanks count as being on the rear armor facing? __________________ I post here too- http://www.unicorncottagecompany.com/phpbb2/index.php

01-21-2008	#134 (permalink)
Ikarus God-Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 1,593 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 68 Thanked 375 Times in 140 Posts Blog Entries: 3	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT Ramming - Tank move like tank shock - Tanks must move full distance always. Inflicts Str. hit to vehicles The Vehicle RAmming will inflict the STR. hit based on these bonuses~ The RAmming Vehicle will alsow SUFFER, the same hit back. Each point of armor over 10 - +1 Strength each EAch Full 3'' moved by ramming vehicle - +1 Strength each Tank - + 1 For example: a Land Raider is ramming an enemy Chimera, hitting it in the side. The Land Raider has a frontal armour of 14 (4 points over 10, for a total of +4), has moved 10” before reaching the Chimera (for an extra +3) and is a Tank (+1). The Chimera suffers a Strength 8 hit against its side armour. At the same time the Land Raider suffers a Strength 4 hit against its frontal armour (+0 for the Chimera’s side armour of 10, +3 for the Land Raider’s own speed and +1 because the Chimera is a Tank). __________________ Ask not what the Emperor can do for you, but what you can do for the Emperor. BLOOD ANGELS 2k - Angels of Angryz!! Last edited by Ikarus; 01-21-2008 at 07:44 PM.

01-21-2008	#135 (permalink)
Astrotrain Trooper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 88 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT whats the Initiative of tanks or is that something to be listed on the codex? __________________ I post here too- http://www.unicorncottagecompany.com/phpbb2/index.php

01-21-2008	#137 (permalink)
Astrotrain Trooper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 88 Rep Power: 0 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT Thanks maybe I won't chip in my leman russ tanks yet! __________________ I post here too- http://www.unicorncottagecompany.com/phpbb2/index.php

01-21-2008	#138 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,575 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT well Landraiders just became my favourite tank of all time- aim for your opponents main tank, full move of 12" giving you a str.9 hit and then unloading the belly full of terminators right into the enemy lines.

01-21-2008	#139 (permalink)
kenshin620 Sergeant Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 2Fort.........Texas Posts: 613 Rep Power: 1 Thanks: 29 Thanked 29 Times in 22 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT ramming tanks? starts making suicide rammers __________________ "You don't know that! Dracula could be out in the sun! He was just weaker."-Mike

01-21-2008	#140 (permalink)
Baron Spikey Captain Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,575 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 111 Times in 91 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT From what I've heard on the net the PDF of the '5th' edition floating around is actually slightly older than the rumours the majority of us first heard- basically the any differences between this Alpha preleak and the rumours....the rumours are the more up to date version that was changed after 'Alpha'.

01-21-2008	#141 (permalink)
GriplionGremlin Corporal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 450 Rep Power: 2 Thanks: 59 Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT hmm....5th ed...... my biggest issue with this leak is that over the last 7 1/2 years i've been playing 40k i've seen only two consistancies with anything that GW puts out. 1. a pendulum swing. 2. lack of thought or quality playtesting. my reason: 1. when gw releases a new rule set or codex its full bore for that army or game. there isnt much middle ground on the rules. either they are loved by those who can use and abuse them or hated for those who can't and feel they get used or abused by them. 2. gw has designers who are so inept at the game they design that they cant even win a game. come on folks no one out here who plays the game is that bad!! if you design it but you dont know how to play it doesn't that show you shouldn't have your job!!!!!!!!! i think gw does purposefully leak release info to get some outside info. how ever i think they would be much better served by instead of leaking the info out to hear everyones b*tches and complaints or thier praises they should send the info to the local gw stores and battle bunkers and host special games using the new info and gamestore armies and record the info of how the games go. and they could ask the folks who participate to fill out a survey on the new rules/dex etc and then use that info to update the test rules to come up with something more balanced. an i'm sorry ID but i disagree with your idea that games rules need a change to keep the game going. any rules that create issues or problems yes they need to be changed but if gw took some serious time to evaluate thier product and whats right/wrong with it and release the core rules and the different armies at the same time instead of over multiple years where the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth with overpowered then nerfed then reoverpoered and renerfed armies they would find thier loyal customers staying loyal and able to bring more folks into the game instead of discourgaging them by hearing "its nice you like that army but you better wait xx until the new dex is out to see if you still like them". well thats just my $20s worth since i couldn't keep it short enough for $.02 worth... in the end i'll still play 40k. i still play chaos after losing my favorite army but gaining big bonuses to my 2nd favorite. i'll still play yet i know so far the 1/4 of the guys i play with are saying they're done if these rules go to print. __________________ fe, fi, fo, fum. i smell imperial corpse scumm! my 1ksons ts wip iron hands wip Infinity miniature game

01-21-2008	#142 (permalink)
Brother Warchild Lodge Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Fenris-AKA-Olympia Washington Posts: 2,512 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 655 Thanked 261 Times in 199 Posts	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT They wont quit they will just B.tch and cry and still play.Theres no way we are gonna get a rule set that everyone agree's on.And if someone will stop playing becouse of a few rules they dont like and not becouse they are paying 55 bucks+tax for 5 minis they need a head check. __________________ Check out the Librarium and the Battlefield My Stuff ( links ) Lupercal! A truescale Luna Wolf's W.I.P Wolves of Fenris A Space Wolve's W.I.P Death Guard, Land Raider W.I.P Legion of the Damned W.I.P Tricks of the Trade

01-21-2008	#143 (permalink)
Dragoon King Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky Posts: 2,653 Rep Power: 3 Thanks: 70 Thanked 95 Times in 73 Posts Blog Entries: 1	Re: 5th EDITION - PRELEAK INFO GIVEOUT I'm hoping the new ed. will be easier to use. __________________ “Nothing you can lose by dying is half so precious as the readiness to die, which is a man’s charter of nobility.” George Santayana.