5th edition rumors!

[Baron Spikey]

5th Edition rumours Round 3 courtesy Champsguy of Warseer

Shooting
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they're mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6" assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Overall, the rules look a lot more detailed. Not as detailed as 2nd edition, but now there's a difference between a guy standing on the roof of a building and a guy standing in the basement. Actual line of sight matters a lot more than "pretend" line of sight now.

with a little summary opinion courtesy of Bigred from Bell of Lost Souls

Wow, 5th is starting to feel a lot like the good old days of 2nd as far as detail goes but without the crazy uber characters. Its looking like vehicles are getting both more deadly and more vulnerable at once, and maneuvering is going to become an art again. No more 150 man gun-lines just setting up in a big mob and blazing away. With friendlies blocking LoS, your movement and setup skills for both offense and defense is now very, very important! Kind of like Fantasy to think of it...

[Lord Commander Erus]

This is good and bad.. But it has my skeptically curious.

[Cirative]

I'm iffy/curious about:
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.

I dislike:
-All blast weapons now scatter.
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.

[Lord Commander Erus]

I have the same dislikes, Cir.. However the 'friendly/foe-LOS' bit makes sense to me (military family... it's ingrained in me no to fire at friendlys).. The area Terrain bit seems like bullocks though.

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

The blast weapon's scattering is annoying...I can understand some, E.g. Grenade Launchers, but not others, E.g. Missile Launchers, as they fire a rocket along a straight-ish trajectory.

[Wakim]

Depends on the rocket :P

Panzerfaust-ish rockets (having no wings and such) tend to go around the target most of the times that`s why people use them from a hiding, really close to the target

Even rockets with wings drive drunk, but they do usually hit their target if they`re laser guided (although they are also wire guided which means they can only go so far)

FOF blocking line of sight is so-so. I mean, i like it since it makes sence but.... we`re slowly going back 1700`s british firing platoons (or fantasy archers, is you prefer).

[Baron Spikey]

I like the decrease in Str. of what classifies as a defensive weapon. It makes sense that those pintle mounted weapons would be firing when the vehicle is bouncing through uneven terrain whilst the heavier weapons would require a slower progress or full stop to be used effectively.

[Dragoon King]

Ah, I will find something to gripe about whenever it does come out.

[Wakim]

Originally Posted by Baron Spikey

I like the decrease in Str. of what classifies as a defensive weapon. It makes sense that those pintle mounted weapons would be firing when the vehicle is bouncing through uneven terrain whilst the heavier weapons would require a slower progress or full stop to be used effectively.

Um... no.

That`s not how taks work.

Only Heavy Weapon that shouldn`t be able to fire on the move is indirect artilary :/

But tanks fire on the move since day one :/ and in modern times they fire with great aim :P all you need is a gyroscopic system to keep them in the target`s plane

[325504503]

Hopefully any new rules will speed the game up. I am tired of wasting 30-45 minutes for one game turn.

[Cirative]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

I have the same dislikes, Cir.. However the 'friendly/foe-LOS' bit makes sense to me (military family... it's ingrained in me no to fire at friendlys)..

It does make some sense. It's just been imagined that the friendly troop in front would duck down, or sway to the side so his teammate could fire from behind. It'll take some getting used to, but it won't be a game-breaking change.

But all blast weapons scattering? **** that. Space Marines have targeting gear and pretty damn good technology (not as great as Tau/Eldar, but still). There's no reason for a Space Marine missile launcher to scatter. The dude gets one shot per turn (or none if he moves), he better damn well be nearly guaranteed a direct hit on that shot. It'd suck otherwise.

Though like Icarus said, I could see things like grenade launchers scattering.

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

Originally Posted by Wakim

Depends on the rocket :P

Panzerfaust-ish rockets (having no wings and such) tend to go around the target most of the times that`s why people use them from a hiding, really close to the target

Even rockets with wings drive drunk, but they do usually hit their target if they`re laser guided (although they are also wire guided which means they can only go so far)

I was referring to rockets in 40k, where most races have ****-hot targeting tech.

[Cirative]

Originally Posted by Icarus Athrasuriel

I was referring to rockets in 40k, where most races have ****-hot targeting tech.

Exactly.

"We can make missiles that can hunt down one unlucky bastard 7,000 miles away and stick
a nuclear warhead right up his ass." - Gil Mars (Denis Leary), Small Soldiers (1998)

[The Sword 88]

I agree that missile launchers should not scatter UNLESS they miss, then it makes no sense for a frag rocket to no blow up somewhere.

Anyway for the blocking LOS thing, all the models ina squad should not block each other's LOS since they would get out og the way, but I do think other squads should block other squads LOS.

[masterofweirdness]

Ya... blast weapons scattering makes little... if any sense to me...

Luckily, frag grenades suck... so I won't bother using them...

Well.... they don't suck... they're not just not to useful..

other than that... most of this sounds good, though I still want at least Codices: DE, IG, and SW out before 5th... codex Inquistion can wait...

[Captain Slow]

so far, its a love hate thing between me and the 5th edition. that and if it ever comes out, i mean, i have people i know, not in the industry mind you, that are saying 'its a total load of horse £$%^' and then theres stich, and theres other people, and reliable sources (talkin about big Red here, and BOFS as it was right about apoc for example) telling me its going to be sometimes this year.

and dont even get me strated about thenew Exapnsion: Oribtal assualt, or planetside, or whatever the hell there going to call it in the end.

well theres my 2 cents.

[Petey1016]

Ok i hate rumours as half of them are untrue of the final print and figuring out the true half is just chasing your tail. 5th coming out this year would ruin the Hobby as most gamers have only just got accustomed to 4th ed. half of the rumours are people wanting stuff so they start a rumour of B.S

[Mart007]

It makes me laugh how people say second was so good, as at the time it was totally different!

I like the line of sight, and saving throw after allocation.

I not to hot keen on the moving fast 5+ cover save, should be a 4+ invuln to me!

Looks good overall, a bit more detail than 4th, but not to much to turn it into a 2nd ed lengthy affair

[Petey1016]

i hate rumours they get people talking about stuff that doesnt happen.
1. Only half of the rumours end up true.
2. You cant determine which half of them are true.

[Mart007]

I think this is a true one though. I didnt believe it 6 months ago when it started, at all, but I think there has been to much about it now that I do think now it's a given it's coming out later this year (though much later).

Actually does anyone remember that Space Marine redux rumour that was around? Well I wouldnt be suprised if it was true now and came out with the rules! (I'm just guessing on that though!)

[Captain Slow]

Mart ive got to agree. i know for one that theres people that simply say im talking out my arse when i mention 5th editon and the words 'This year' but...to tell you the truth. i have mixed feelings about it. if does come out, its a whole new rules set to learn. on the other hand, maybe it will, fix some of these so called 'broken' rules or army lists. but as for it comeing out this year, i personally, have no idea. but i know just through the sheer amount of coverage its getting that its comeing. and maybe sooner than people think.

As for a New SM Codex didnt that happen last time? when 4th came out, the first new dex, not too long after the 4th edition was the SM? right?

[Mart007]

yes, this rumour was for it to come out this year, but with 4ed rules (this is an old rumour) it just make sense for them to bring SM in line as they are th most popular army. Esp if the new starter box has SM and Orks.

Do not take what I have said on fact I'm guessing!

[Captain Slow]

fair enough Mart that was my train of thought as well.

and guess what? So is everyone else! its all we can do till they eventually decide to come out!! ^ ^

[Baron Spikey]

5th Edition round 4

As before, thanks to Champsguy at Warseer for these rumours

Shooting
-Blast weapons don't roll to hit, they just scatter. They now operate like template weapons in that any model touched by the blast is hit. No more "roll 4+ for partial" stuff. A unit firing multiple blast weapons (a SM Dev squad being the example) fires like a multiple barrage unit would in 4th edition. Scatter once, then lay the blasts off of the original template. These two things might make up for the lack of a to-hit roll. You don't need to center the hole over someone when you place it before determining scatter.

-You can shoot over other squads if you can see over them because of elevation, etc. You can always shoot at vehicles or monstrous creatures over other squads.

-Line of Sight: It's units that block LoS, so you shouldn't worry about spending 45 minutes drawing LOS from each individual trooper to each individual target. You draw LOS from the eyes of the model. Area terrain gives cover saves. There's an entire chapter on ruined buildings and how they affect line of sight (like a mini Cities of Death). I honestly don't remember if 6" of terrain blocks sight or not.

-After shooting and wounding, you can choose to become pinned. You get a +1 to cover save (or a 6+ if you're in the open). It's the "get down!" rule.

- Flamers: You now determine wounds for all template weapons firing from a squad before you take saves or remove casualties.

-Gets Hot! is back to the 3rd ed version. So that Ork character doesn't have to worry about rolling 3s on his plasma gun.

Assault
-Assaulting in cover: If you assault someone in cover, and you don't have grenades, you now become initiative 1 (instead of them becoming init 10). This works a lot better when more than two units are in combat.

-If you are charged while broken, you make another fall back move immediately. If you don't get away (i.e., they can still reach you), you're destroyed. If you do get away, you get away.

-Preferred Enemy now allows you to reroll all misses, instead of hitting on a 3+.

Vehicles
-No shooting of defensive weapons if you move full speed.

-Smoke launchers are a 5+ cover save.

-Vehicles can now get up to a 3+ cover save, depending on what they're hiding behind.

-No re-roll of wounding against transported infantry no matter how far you moved.

-Fire all weapons if you stay still (except Ordnance, it's got special rules). Fast vehicles can fire everything if they move up to 6". If you move, you ca