Playtest - Codex Daemons..

[Ikarus]

UPDATED : 1/28/08

From what it writes there (Direct copying):
-There will be Daemon Princes, but it will be a 'poor choice': fluff-wise they are despised by Daemons, being half-humans in nature (Alessio's words). It's unclear how (and if) they can be possibly worse than they are actually ... no source confirmed that they can be taken as Heavy Supports, but it is highly probable. (Duh, if DPs are weakened by a lot then what's the point for them to lead the armies?)
-HQ choices will be Greater Daemons and Heralds. Heralds will be 0-2 choice per HQ slot. Heralds cannot be attached to squads with different Marks than their own. (Better Daemonhosts?)
-Greater Daemons will be valid units (no more Independent Characters). (Meh, they're Monstrous Creatures anyway)
-Daemonic Gifts will be back again... but it is unclear which ones will come back, and if they will be available only to Heralds, or they will let you customize your Greater Daemons. (Custom GD will be cool, but they have to set limitations on taking Daemonic Gifts/one-or-anotehr choices or the gifts will flow to some standard ones like 3rdEd)
-There will be a "Daemonic Tank" as Heavy Support choice (Daemonic Engine?): it will be half-daemon/half-vehicle, born out of the wreckages of Predator, Leman Russ etc. which are left in the worlds scourged by warp storms. Alessio referred to it being the 'coolest models he has ever seen'. (see above pic) (HELLCANNON! Sorry, I didn't actually saw taht pic.)
-ALL Daemons from past editions will be playable again (I'm expecting Beasts of Nurgle and Fiends of Slaanesh!). (Great, so calvary Bloodletters anyone?)
-Daemonic Special Characters will be detailed (OK, nothing new here... I'm hoping to see Doombreed and Foulspawn again!). (Now we need someone with Dreadaxe probably)
-All Daemons will be Fearless and, not being summoned, they will NOT be instable. An 'all-daemons invasion' in Warhammer 40K occur whenever Warp Gates open and daemonic powers feast upon the innocent inhabitants of the nearby planet. (Hordes of Chaos from WHFB......Except seems stronger.)
-It will be a HTH-oriented army, though Horrors, Flamers and the new Daemonic Tank/Engine will provide a good amount of firepower. No words about the 'Unbound Defiler'... which doesn't mean, of course, that it is a fake. (Fair enough, old Daemons are just mostly CC units)
-ONLY DAEMONS in this Codex. No Lost and the Damned, no Mutants, no Cultists, no Chaos Space Marines. (Predictable)

[Chaos Lord Amorphous]

So many models to buy, so little disposable income

[Dragoon King]

"Daemonic Tank" as Heavy Support choice? Sign me up! Will CSM armies be able to use these new monsters? Or the new Daemons?

[Heroka Vendile]

It may work in the same way as the inquisition, where if you take an inquisitor (or in this case probably a Herald), then you can take SoBs with your Guard legally (or in this case, an unbound daemon tank).

I can't wait to see all the brilliant new models this release will have, we already know what the new juggernought, daemonettes and bloodletters will look like - and that sketch of the daemon tank is very promising


EDIT:
hmm... i think I might just post-pone attempting my Carnifex-Defiler conversion, with all these daemon releases, especially the tank, there may be some very useful parts about to be available...

[Ikarus]

As far as I know.. this is a stand alone codex, and no addons to CSM is allowed.

But this is not confirmed.

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Ikarus

As far as I know.. this is a stand alone codex, and no addons to CSM is allowed.

But this is not confirmed.

Will...not...start...another...army, ARRRAHGH! I sorely hope CSM will be able to use it. If not, dang it, there is always Apoc allies. Guess my Black Legion will not use Daemons if this is true.

[masterofweirdness]

All I will say is that this looks great...

However, I REALLY hope that they allow some form of attachments... because if they don't I think I might just have to house rule it... I don't play in tournies and my army isn't big enough for apoc... if I really want a unit of daemons or something. It would really only be for fluff purposes... but I'd want it just the same.

Now... another thing... when is this supposed to be release? march? april?

[Ikarus]

Okay, J. Johnson.. said explicitly in another Con, that it is NOT an alliance book.

[Dragoon King]

So I'm stuck with generics? ******s!

[Khadhar'phak]

Did you honestly expect anything else?

I like the sound of it personally, unfluffy it may be, but I'm one of those people who want to play $&"47$ and paint my Marines in Camo a la Rogue trader

So I say to HELL with fluff in this case, that Daemon tank sounds the nuts!

[Rellik]

oh very cool!

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Khadhar'phak

Did you honestly expect anything else?

I like the sound of it personally, unfluffy it may be, but I'm one of those people who want to play $&"47$ and paint my Marines in Camo a la Rogue trader

So I say to HELL with fluff in this case, that Daemon tank sounds the nuts!

ya.... I'm not playing in any touries with this army... I'll go ahead and use whatever daemons I want!

They'll count as allies... and I'll use the same rules that applied to Codex: Daemonhunters. But honestly, these codices NEED to be able to support each other... its makes sense.

[Baron Spikey]

its makes sense in a way but if you start down that path then really you should start doing the same Ally thing with all the Space Marine Chapters and the Imperial Guard, not something thats going to happen.

[Ides]

Well you could always use the cool models but keep the generic stats...

But, yeah, these new tanks and things are sounding increasingly interesting.

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Baron Spikey

its makes sense in a way but if you start down that path then really you should start doing the same Ally thing with all the Space Marine Chapters and the Imperial Guard, not something thats going to happen.

thats different... there is nothing in the fluff to show the Space Marines and the IG working together!

Daemons and CSM... thats another story... they do and have summoned daemons... so I'm going to do the same if I feel like it!

[Baron Spikey]

well yeah if you feel like it then anything goes

There is a lot of fluff of Space Marines and the Imperial Guard working together though- almost every Black Library novel concerning either one has them cooperating (with the notable exception of Gaunt's Ghosts).

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

thats different... there is nothing in the fluff to show the Space Marines and the IG working together!

Daemons and CSM... thats another story... they do and have summoned daemons... so I'm going to do the same if I feel like it!

Are you blind, mad, or stupid?

Nothing in the fluff to show they work together? Wha.. Grr.. Ack.. *gurgle of rage and stomping of feet.*

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

Are you blind, mad, or stupid?

Nothing in the fluff to show they work together? Wha.. Grr.. Ack.. *gurgle of rage and stomping of feet.*

Yes... seperately. The IG and the Space Marines... they don't fight together in the same armies... daemons are temporary allies summoned by sorcerors to add some extra muscle to their army... IG and the Space Marines are seperate army forces that while they work for the same organization, tend to operate seperately... with the space marines informing the IG what they will do, just as they do it.

Now... granted, there are probably some space marine chapters that operate in coordination with the Imperial Guard... but they aren't the majority.

[Baron Spikey]

Daemons are summoned but they dont SERVE the Chaos Space Marines, they're separate in their service to the Dark Powers.

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Baron Spikey

Daemons are summoned but they dont SERVE the Chaos Space Marines, they're separate in their service to the Dark Powers.

hence the dealing making and selling of souls that so many sorcerors do...

[SlavetotheMachine]

I played a Word Bearers army that could field 75 daemons, so I am definitely looking forward to seeing what kind of an army I have now.

Most people didn't understand how the new Chaos codex affected my army, they said I should just try out the new army. Well, I did and it rocks. Except for the daemons. That's a lot of models that, while they look like Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Furies, etc., they are just Lesser Daemons. Booo. They do have their uses but, booooo.

So, yeah, I can't wait to see the new codex. And I won't have to paint a whole bunch of models, but will be buying some of the new models, of course. I just hope I don't end up with 75 more....