Tabletop Gaming News Editorial Regarding WH40K 5th Edition

[Ikarus]

Tabletop Gaming News Playing to your core fans

Playing to your core fans

Editorial

Recent rumours about the next edition of 40K have got me thinking about 40K and what Games Workshop can do to bring in new gamers. The reason being that the reactions from 40K gamers regarding the changes that have been posted (rumoured changes of course) have been quite dramatic and for me the potential tweaks to the 40K rules have really left me uninterested.

I am a huge fan of the 40K universe. It is flawed, weird and at times nonsensical but I lap it up as if it were ambrosia. And yet each year sees my cache of 40K figs dwindle. I have recently sold or traded three painted 40K armies and the remainder of my Space Marines are left simply because I hope to use them in a sci-fi variant of the Weird WWII rules I am working on. So why, if I love the background and the models, for this game so much am I not an avid 40K gamer?

Obviously enough, the reason is the game itself. I think its tragically flawed and despite several serious attempts to play 3rd and 4th edition versions of the rules I find myself in a position where I am intrigued by the news of a 5th edition of 40K but I know that I won’t be interested in the final product. Why? The reason is that GW has fallen into a trap the plagues a lot of content producers, playing to the desires for an existing audience.

You can see this in video games most dramatically. The first game in a franchise is widely accessible to most gamers but the more sequels that come out, the more the developers cater to fans and the less accessible the game becomes. This has even spread to entire genres of games. 2D shooters and fighting games are notorious for being unplayable unless you are a longtime fan of the game style.

I think that Games Workshop has the same problem with the 40K game. The Third Edition of the rules was a reaction to the unbalanced game style of the Second Edition. Fourth Edition appears to be nothing more than a fix for the problems in the Third Editionand this, if rumours are correct, seems to be the case with the new fifth edition that has “fixes” for game situations that came about due to issues in the previous version. “Gamey” rules added to fix “gamey” situations in the system that shouldn’t be there in the first place. For me, Third Edition was notorious for being a system where you played the game instead of playing a tactical situation. I think Fourth Edition cleared this up somewhat in terms of the LOS, assault and shooting rules but not enough to leave me feeling that I often lost games simply because my opponent knew the rules better and knew how to take advantage of them.

At some point, Third Edition in my opinion, someone at GW should have hit the reset button on the game and redeveloped it from scratch. The core system is fatally flawed and continuing to patch and fix it means that all you will do is continue to cater to your existing audience and not have the ability to grow your market. If someone didn’t like Fourth Edition how are they going to like a patched version of it?

This won’t happen though. We all know it. A “reset” of the 40K game system is never going to happen but that doesn’t mean that GW can’t do something to bring in other types of gamers into the 40K universe.

Now before I begin to sound like some sort of alarmist we are of course discussing a situation whereby the 500lb gorilla that was 40K is now “only” a 450lb gorilla. 40K isn’t in any danger of disappearing but with Games Workshop’s current financial position and the possibilities for growth you’d wonder why there hasn’t been more effort to create a game that will appeal to a larger audience. New sales are still new sales and its not as if the company is in a position where it can afford to ignore potential new markets.

So why isn’t there a serious effort to create a skirmish variant for 40K? Not Kill Team or Combat Patrol but a serious stand-alone skirmish system, with consistent official support, that uses the existing codexes with gameplay aimed specifically at small games with 10 - 20 troops and a vehicle. Why did GW pull the plug on Specialist Games and stop producing and supporting excellent games like Epic and Warmaster? Why isn’t GW producing 40K themed board games like the old Armageddon board games they recently released as free downloads? Warhammer Quest sells for obscene money on eBay, why not rerelease it and make some of that cash for GW instead of for eBay?

Games Workshop makes some fun 40K kits. The Commander sets that they have for their armies are great fun and who can resist the inherent fun of building a unit of Space Marines or troops from one of their other plastic kits. Why then do they seem to focus so intently on selling to a single market segment and forego increasing their sales by creating an opportunity for people to make a few small miniature purchases and become, in a small part, 40K gamers.

If you create a system whereby entry into your game requires a $300 - 500 purchase and 100s of hours of assembly and painting then you bare entry to anyone who doesn’t have the time, money or sufficient interest to come into the game. And if a man with a gaming room littered with 40K novels and army books from three different versions of the game isn’t interested in buying a 40K army then you have no hope of bringing in any other more casual gamers.

I am sure that there will be a lot of happy gamers who will see the changes in the next edition of 40K as a good thing but I think that GW should learn something from Apocalypse. There are a lot of opportunities for different types of 40K gaming experiences and GW can make money from them if they would only stop focusing so much on their existing audience. Fifth Edition will probably be a success and a great game for existing players but GW needs to start looking for other ways to expand their sales and their audience and reworking the same ruleset time and time again isn’t the way to do it.

[Templar Mikeel]

He has, interesting views.

[kenshin620]

hmmmm yes, quite interesting

[Ion Raptor]

Interesting yes, and I agree wholeheartedly with him. The universe and gave are becoming stagnant, however GW will not (or can not) risk reinventing the most popular tabletop miniatures game.

[masterofweirdness]

To a degree I agree with this guy... GW HAS stuck themselves into a hole... the way things are going they have to continue their business plan as they have since the release of the 4th ed. Also, the static nature of the story does, to a degree, bug me.

I think the key to creating a really good ruleset AND a good background is a combination of both static and everchanging in the background while having a ruleset that is solid, but easy enough to change.

While the ruleset of 40k may never change from the current one, and I don't really expect it to, or want it to really, the background, IHMO does need to be relooked and and the style of how the backstories are written needs to be reinvinted.

For instance, take the Eye of Terror Campaign. Nothing happened. Why? Because GW does not want to take the risk of losing the balance of the various races. Screw that. If the Imperium slowly slowly dies, then allow the game to reflect that... you don't necessarily need to have "balanced" races and factions. What would happen if the IG were no longer as numerous, if the SM became a faction that was more focused on their great past exploits than their future ones, IE a faction stuck in the past. What would happen if the Tau gained true Warp Engines... if their expansion really started to hurt the Imperium. What would happen if the Eldar civilzation started to grow again, not die? Sure, not everyone may like the change... and that is the key to GW's problems... they are afraid of change, what it might do etc. But, lets face it, they have written in to many possible plot hooks (Wolftime, the C'tan on Mars, the Star God Theory, the Eldar God of Death, the Tau, Farsight)... it would be a shame to never have any of them, ANY of them, explored. This is what will happen if GW continue's down its current path, no?

Rules, rules are much more difficult to implment, and while I do agree that the current system is not that effective, it does work. 4th ed. to me doesn't need a radical change, its a good system with some big flaws and the need to be streamlined (there are some rules and things that are being removed... that's what I mean by streamlining it). Also, certain rules do need to be revised and reinvented. Psychic powers are a good example... as are the vechicle rules. Perhaps putting in overwatch could work, but according to some it made the game VERY predictable... and that the current system is more fun and possibly more tactical.

Well... that's all I have to say.

[Dravenguild]

Ah, spoken like a true warhammer player.

I had hoped some of these side agendas and other quirky plots in the 40k universe would come to light as well.

Why not the primarchs return? Why not the emperor be reincarnated? why not abaddon pursue his 14th crusade? things like these need to be attempted to say the least.

40k has become stagnant in fluff, with their constant re-working storylines in order to introduce new concepts and races like the tau and necrons, demiurg and all xenos.

[Brother Warchild]

They could def keep it going storywise for a long time.1 primarch found live or dead and so on.It wouldn't hurt,if anything they would sell more models in that army.It would def spike peoples interest .The world of Warhammer is pretty big,if a new major legion turned or another craftworld was found or the nids took over a major planet all it would do is light more fires.

[Spartan-11755]

lol You gotta wonder. Anyway Gw has said at public press meetings and stock functions and such that they are a Model making company not a place that makes wargames they just produce rules so you can play with there models...that is all

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

To a degree I agree with this guy... GW HAS stuck themselves into a hole... the way things are going they have to continue their business plan as they have since the release of the 4th ed. Also, the static nature of the story does, to a degree, bug me.

I think the key to creating a really good ruleset AND a good background is a combination of both static and everchanging in the background while having a ruleset that is solid, but easy enough to change.

While the ruleset of 40k may never change from the current one, and I don't really expect it to, or want it to really, the background, IHMO does need to be relooked and and the style of how the backstories are written needs to be reinvinted.

For instance, take the Eye of Terror Campaign. Nothing happened. Why? Because GW does not want to take the risk of losing the balance of the various races. Screw that. If the Imperium slowly slowly dies, then allow the game to reflect that... you don't necessarily need to have "balanced" races and factions. What would happen if the IG were no longer as numerous, if the SM became a faction that was more focused on their great past exploits than their future ones, IE a faction stuck in the past. What would happen if the Tau gained true Warp Engines... if their expansion really started to hurt the Imperium. What would happen if the Eldar civilzation started to grow again, not die? Sure, not everyone may like the change... and that is the key to GW's problems... they are afraid of change, what it might do etc. But, lets face it, they have written in to many possible plot hooks (Wolftime, the C'tan on Mars, the Star God Theory, the Eldar God of Death, the Tau, Farsight)... it would be a shame to never have any of them, ANY of them, explored. This is what will happen if GW continue's down its current path, no?

Rules, rules are much more difficult to implment, and while I do agree that the current system is not that effective, it does work. 4th ed. to me doesn't need a radical change, its a good system with some big flaws and the need to be streamlined (there are some rules and things that are being removed... that's what I mean by streamlining it). Also, certain rules do need to be revised and reinvented. Psychic powers are a good example... as are the vechicle rules. Perhaps putting in overwatch could work, but according to some it made the game VERY predictable... and that the current system is more fun and possibly more tactical.

Well... that's all I have to say.

One can only hope, and this is my sincerest hope, that GW does indeed learn something from Apocalypse. One can only hope that they take the hint, and keep producing expansions. Leave the core rules un touched, and release separate rulebooks (like Apocalypse, the Rumored Planet bit, CoD, EoT, etc..) that allow further insight into 40k.

For example.. Would anyone mind an exspansion entitled 'Crusade' or 'Heresy' where they retrograded 40k back to the Great Crusade, or the Horus Heresy? Or an expansion for the T'au, that deals with the idea and possibility that they did indeed gain warp drive tech? Seriously? I don't even play Tau... But i'd be interested.

[Ikarus]

testeatetestest

[themandalorian]

It seem From a new players point of view that they need some big kind of event. Or monthly events to have the game move possibly. Looking at it the story is supposed to be so big but it seems at a standstill. It would be cool for them to have a race get killed, or make people think it's killed then bring it back. Or have the space marines overrun for a time, then have them recapture it. I may be reading too much star wars but it would be cool to have stuff like this.

Also i'm sure if they SEVERELY patched up and brought new elements they could make it much better. You can't feel that defeated.

Also it definately seems they aren't doing enough to attract new players. Without this forum i definately wouldn't be getting into the game. It's just so vast and confusing.


Still don't know much but there's my input

[Mart007]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

One can only hope, and this is my sincerest hope, that GW does indeed learn something from Apocalypse. One can only hope that they take the hint, and keep producing expansions. Leave the core rules un touched, and release separate rulebooks (like Apocalypse, the Rumored Planet bit, CoD, EoT, etc..) that allow further insight into 40k.

For example.. Would anyone mind an exspansion entitled 'Crusade' or 'Heresy' where they retrograded 40k back to the Great Crusade, or the Horus Heresy? Or an expansion for the T'au, that deals with the idea and possibility that they did indeed gain warp drive tech? Seriously? I don't even play Tau... But i'd be interested.

I totally agree. I love expansions, though I do want 5th ed as I think it is going to be a cracking ruleset but I would rather them keep the rules and update things with expansions I see no wrong in that and it is up to the consumer if they want them or not. I dont think 40K is overly flawed, yes changes need to be made, but a reset on the whole thing, no way!

To encourage new gamers - simple - bring back Space Hulk! loads of people in my school played that game (it was a long time ago).

[Baron von Lexus]

Originally Posted by Dravenguild

Ah, spoken like a true warhammer player.

I had hoped some of these side agendas and other quirky plots in the 40k universe would come to light as well.

Why not the primarchs return? Why not the emperor be reincarnated? why not abaddon pursue his 14th crusade? things like these need to be attempted to say the least.

40k has become stagnant in fluff, with their constant re-working storylines in order to introduce new concepts and races like the tau and necrons, demiurg and all xenos.

I agree with you. It seems that time just sorta stopped after the 13th Black Crusade and nothing really happend then anyway. The way to go would be to make mroe expansions like Apoalypse that forcus on certain events to keep the story moving and changing rather than stuck in the warp as it seems now where whatever players do doesnt matter and everything has happend in the past.

I'd love to see the Primarchs come back btw.

Baron

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by themandalorian

It seem From a new players point of view that they need some big kind of event. Or monthly events to have the game move possibly. Looking at it the story is supposed to be so big but it seems at a standstill. It would be cool for them to have a race get killed, or make people think it's killed then bring it back. Or have the space marines overrun for a time, then have them recapture it. I may be reading too much star wars but it would be cool to have stuff like this.

Also i'm sure if they SEVERELY patched up and brought new elements they could make it much better. You can't feel that defeated.

Also it definately seems they aren't doing enough to attract new players. Without this forum i definately wouldn't be getting into the game. It's just so vast and confusing.


Still don't know much but there's my input

Killing off a race... no! But... changing the fundamentals of that race... maybe. Like I said, what if the Tau got access to true warp drives... how would that change them? eh?

Killing off a race... that would cripple them. And, they have said it, all the codices and army books and the factions they represent will be include in 40k/WFB as long as GW can realistically produce said games.

And Erus... to a big degree I think I agree with you. But, realistically, 5th ed. will have to come simply because rules are being phased out and some things need to be edited. However, I do agree with you and hope that GW continues to make cool expansions.

As for primarchs, I would say that GW must tread very carefully in dealing with them. While they are really cool... if they say the primarch/s come back, then they must support them with models and rules. And, to be realistic, that would be a bit messed up. I mean, read the horus heresy books... Horus doesn't even grunt as he cuts through hundreds, if not thousands, of zombie creatures in False Gods... how can such a character be truly represented on the TT.

I know that we have a primarch project here on 40k terra... but the way I see it, if I ever used a primarch, it'd be for a fun game... a special apoc game that I and my friends have carefully planned out. Not a pick up game... which is probably what we will start to see.

While I am all for advancing the story line, there are some things that need to be carefully thought out before done. The Star Child and the Primarchs are probably two of them. However, things like teh 14th Black Crusade, another Tyranid Hive Fleet Invasion, or something like that is something that I would really like to see.

[themandalorian]

No i meant it would be funny to kill of a race, then have them come back out of nowhere stronger and better than before. Like the Necrons gone, then have a leader come up. SOmething like that

Like that commercial when burger king stops selling the whopper, LOL

guys like mannn might as well call it burger queen!!!! damnnnnnnnnn

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

GW keeps the game still because you're meant to be able to play in any era, not just the current one. I do, however, agree with Erus in that I'd like to see expansions which explore the past and future.

[Dravenguild]

to masterofwierdness-

surely if the necrons have model representation of c'tan than why doesn't that justify the space marines having a primarch of their own?

all i'm saying is, necrons are some pretty OP units as it is, and then monoliths and c'tan.

I'm sure a single primarch wouldn't tip the scales by much.

[Baron von Lexus]

Originally Posted by Dravenguild

to masterofwierdness-

surely if the necrons have model representation of c'tan than why doesn't that justify the space marines having a primarch of their own?

all i'm saying is, necrons are some pretty OP units as it is, and then monoliths and c'tan.

I'm sure a single primarch wouldn't tip the scales by much.

Good point.

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Dravenguild

to masterofwierdness-

surely if the necrons have model representation of c'tan than why doesn't that justify the space marines having a primarch of their own?

all i'm saying is, necrons are some pretty OP units as it is, and then monoliths and c'tan.

I'm sure a single primarch wouldn't tip the scales by much.

I'd have to agree whole heartedly.. The Necrons have frigging Gods...