Harlequine 'V' indirect Artillery

[vinny]

Hi all,
According to the New Eldar codex the Harlequines can only be targeted if you role 2D6 x 2 and get the required distance. As Artillery firing indirect do not require to see their enemy can the Harlies be targeted. I have put this on another forum and it apears to have stired up a hornets nest all I want is a rtuling as GW dont apear to be answering my mail.

Thanks Vinny

[Torquemada Coteaz]

I think the normal indirect applies, because lobbing shells blind doesnt require you to "see" them and therefor you cant "aim and miss" like your supposed to.
and even if GW does answer your email, remember they are "roolzboyz" mail and in no way compltely "official".

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by vinny

Hi all,
According to the New Eldar codex the Harlequines can only be targeted if you role 2D6 x 2 and get the required distance. As Artillery firing indirect do not require to see their enemy can the Harlies be targeted. I have put this on another forum and it apears to have stired up a hornets nest all I want is a rtuling as GW dont apear to be answering my mail.

Thanks Vinny

well, the unit is automatically out of sight, so barrage weapon scatter as they would for any other they can't see!

this does mean that barrage weapons are acctually your best bet for taking out harlies as you're not at any more of a disadvantage! you couldn't see to begin with!!! (hmmmm... now where did i put my mortar squad?!)

cheers!

[Perturabo]

This ability is is only confered if the unit takes the shadowseer upgrade.
It also states that if the unit wishing to fire is not within the rolled spotting distance then that unit may not fire that turn!So even if it is indirect fire the test must still be taken and the results be abided by-this is to stop people sniping an elite choice that cost upwards of 90 points with artillery.

*WARNING RANT ALERT*
This is a perfect example of rules loopholing somthing rules lawyers out there will be trying to exploit-just cause it doesnt say you CANT do somthing doesnt mean you CAN.
*WARNING RANT ALERT*

[vinny]

As can be seen by the people putting in information there is a diference of opinion. I am and will be an Eldar player I just wish to get a general understanding before the champs start in the new year.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

haha.
I would still say you can't.
because rules lawyering can be said for the controlling player as well as opposing, it makes it hard to tell who's really loopholling (because you always believe your way)
you aren't preventing "sniping" because artillery is anything BUT accurate -> you are lobbing shells in a general area of 24inch+ diameter!
you are basically saying "make them alot even less killable"
you shouldnt need to take the test because you DONT need to see something to lob shells in a VERY LARGE area

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

This ability is is only confered if the unit takes the shadowseer upgrade.
It also states that if the unit wishing to fire is not within the rolled spotting distance then that unit may not fire that turn!So even if it is indirect fire the test must still be taken and the results be abided by-this is to stop people sniping an elite choice that cost upwards of 90 points with artillery.

*WARNING RANT ALERT*
This is a perfect example of rules loopholing somthing rules lawyers out there will be trying to exploit-just cause it doesnt say you CANT do somthing doesnt mean you CAN.
*WARNING RANT ALERT*

hmmmm... well i'll have to wait untill i get my codex tomorrow to see the actual wording... (i'm trying to recall from what i read in the store copy last week.)
but if the wording is similar/same as the night fighting rules, then barrage weapons may still target the squad as they over-ride the normal rules requiring that you must have line of sight to shoot at an enemy unit.

as pointed out, 1-shot barrage weapons like basies won't be very dangerous as they'll be scattering quite a ways - mortars and biovores however are a much better counter!

and anyways, the fact that barrage weapons don't need a line of sight to fire at any target means they can effectively snipe *any* unit they want! wether or not it's a few grots or a fully-kitted out terminator command squad with all the trimmings! that's what artillery is for

cheers!

[Perturabo]

Sorry about that rant-Just came off a night shift and was very tierd I apologise Im a bit more level headed now!

My main problem is that I just dont like the new artillery rules-but thats a personal thing.

It is down to interpritation of the wording and depends how strict to the letter you are being!
Strict= No they cant unless they pass the test!
Not so strict= Yes they can as inderict fire doesnt state they cant!

Might be a case for the classic dice off.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

hmm...
or strict/unstrict of artillery compared to the harlequin rules.
which would be the opposite.
Personally i'd allow the test, because i hate arguing and i'm a nice guy.
but strictly speaking i BELIEVE that you don't need the test for indirect fire

[Killermoose]

Well, I just checked it from my own codex- I think it's up for interpretation. I think that it should be like the Tau Stealth suits, where Barrage weapons roll an extra D6 for scatter. Personally I think they shouldn't need to make the test, it's not like they actually need to see the target to drop a shell near it. When they do a FAQ for Eldar they should just make Barrage weapons work the same way as it does for Stealth Suits.

[experiment 626]

it's definately one of those many grey areas...

as coteaz pointed out, it's best if you discuss it with your opponent before the game, as othwise there's a good chance your game could devolve into a 'letter vs. spirit' of the rules arguement!

still, it's not like barrage weapons are the only way to deal with harlies! try a flamer template (or similar!)
or else bait them with a unit they're likely to wipe-out in a single round and then give those clowns some rapid fire lovin

cheers!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

haha.
be like me, use excessive force
LARGE BLAST TEMPLATE THE HELL OUT OF THEM WITH STR10-AP1 LANCE STRIKES!!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

haha.
be like me, use excessive force
LARGE BLAST TEMPLATE THE HELL OUT OF THEM WITH STR10-AP1 LANCE STRIKES!!

and for some really fun times, try targeting a river that spans the length and/or width of the table!lol.

cheers!