If he ask do i have to tell?

[MSguardsmen]

well recently a power gaming ahole said that if he asked if i had any guardsmen armed with demolition charges that i had to tell him. Do i or do i just tell him to take this next little suprise right up the arse with his power gaming list!


ps love the new logo. pre heresy death guard are awesome!

No. The most courtesy thing I do is if he sees the model and asks what it is armed with, you can tell him, but you are NOT obligated too. I generally hand my list over before the game, so this is never a problem. But if there was no exchange of lists, you're not obligated to a damn thing unless he asks about a specific unit or mini (i.e. "Is that Guardsmen there armed with a demo charge?" or "Is that the unit with the guardsmen carrying demo charges?'). Even then, you don't have to. It's just considered nice.

[MSguardsmen]

good next time if he asks in general ill just tell him to charge in and see. you know try to psyche him out like he was trying to do to me. (no one at the hobby store likes him but the owner needs the money so we put up with him)

so from now on im gonna add little sticks of tnt to every guardsmen and just let him try to figure out whos gonna use it

Originally Posted by MSguardsmen

good next time if he asks in general ill just tell him to charge in and see. you know try to psyche him out like he was trying to do to me. (no one at the hobby store likes him but the owner needs the money so we put up with him)

so from now on im gonna add little sticks of tnt to every guardsmen and just let him try to figure out whos gonna use it

Just make them little sticks, with nothing else on them. If he asks and it isn't the guy with demo charges, say you are planning to turn them into flashlights, you just haven't yet! Can't fault you there!

[MSguardsmen]

haha i love it. truely evil. and then watch in fright as he stays the hell away as none of them have a demo charge!

That is my specialty.

[Stubber]

Erus, that's just cruel.
My friend simply loads the field with hundreds of men so I can't even tell where one squad starts and the other one finishes.

[masterofweirdness]

A particuarly evil idea is to have a fully-mechinized force.

That is to say, all squads are in transports, and you don't have to say which transports have your HQ, and which has your 6 man tact. squad.

[Killermoose]

You guys are truely evil!

Great ideas, as long as your not playing a tournament it's fine! Teach those power-gamers a lesson (honestly, they deserve it!)

Modelling little sticks on to them... heh heh heh, I love it !

[Brother_Ambrose]

It's good sportsmanship/in the spirit of the game to exchange lists prior to the game, allowing both players to ask questions about their opponent's list an minis. Your guys should be modeled for WYSISYG, so he shouldn't need to ask which one has deomition charges, he should be able to see.

[MSguardsmen]

well theres nothing in wysiwyg about putting extra stuff on your models. and by the way we dont usually exchange list down here although i usually do have an extra just in case. besides if you met this guy you would agree with me.

[Brother_Ambrose]

if your mind was already made up, why'd you ask? :P

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by MSguardsmen

well theres nothing in wysiwyg about putting extra stuff on your models. and by the way we dont usually exchange list down here although i usually do have an extra just in case. besides if you met this guy you would agree with me.

a demo charge is a weapon upgrade similar to a flamer or meltagun... strictly speaking, the model carrying it should have a suitably impressive bomb somewhere on it! (i used a couple of extra autocannon ammo clips glued together to creat a tasty big case packed full of explosives!)

still, just putting a bunch of grenades and/or a melta bomb onto the model in question is enough... (most guard player i know use a melta bomb or just slap a grenade launcher ammo pouch from the cadian sprues onto the model's waist.)

cheers!

Originally Posted by experiment 626

a demo charge is a weapon upgrade similar to a flamer or meltagun... strictly speaking, the model carrying it should have a suitably impressive bomb somewhere on it! (i used a couple of extra autocannon ammo clips glued together to creat a tasty big case packed full of explosives!)

still, just putting a bunch of grenades and/or a melta bomb onto the model in question is enough... (most guard player i know use a melta bomb or just slap a grenade launcher ammo pouch from the cadian sprues onto the model's waist.)

cheers!

He was speaking of my idea of 'flashlights'. I've read the rules front to back. Theres not a damned thing that says it has to be impressive for a demo charge. Hell, a stick of tnt is a demo charge, so make a stick of tnt. lol.

[MSguardsmen]

i asked because i wasnt sure if i had to tell the guy. brother_ambrose. i just didnt want to break any rules when i didnt know whether there was a rule. i may hate the kid but im gonna follow the rules as much as possible.

but yeah. flashlights/tnt on all my guardsmen isnt a bad idea considering my men come from a place that knows how to send their boys to war well supplied

[Brother_Ambrose]

Ok, well here's the definative answer. If it's a tournement, you MUST answer any questions he has. If its casual play you don't have to tell him, but you don't have to play him either.

[MSguardsmen]

alright thats true now by tournament do you mean games day tournament or rogue trader tournament?

or just the game night at the local hobby store where the store owner throws the dice and then decides who you play against?

[Brother_Ambrose]

I don't know the difference between the different tornements, I know you do for hall of heros. Either way, it's just good form. Sure, maybe the guy is a power gamer, but you can be the bigger person, and beat him, while having a good time, beeing a good sport and obeying all the rules. Then maybe he'll get the idea and quit being a jerk.

[r4wr89]

i'd think that as long as the other player asks, you would tell them. not telling makes things awkward i guess...then again, if you really don't like someone just don't play them :]

just a thought.

[OgrynGore]

I would like to take this two steps deeper if I may:

1. Rules:
You must represent weapons and wargear accordingly. This means your Flashlights could indeed be used as demo charges, its your opponent's fault he cant distinguish between a flashlight and a stick of TNT. So by representing the weapon you are following the rules precisely.

2. Reality:
In reality when someone comes to an enemy they dont really know what they have, until they are shot by them with the weapon in question. (Ie. Las bolts are denting my armor, therefore they have las-weapons.) Also this works into range (Well that guardsman looks like he wants a piece of me... oh sh*z he just threw a ...[insert screams here]). In war there is a lot of thing you dont know all you can do is think fast and have a faster trigger finger.

[Brother_Ambrose]

At the same time, the objective is to have fun. Deceptive modeling to cover up what your guys are really equipt with is bad form. If your TNT looks exactly the same as a flashlight, and its done that way so your opponent can't distinguish them, I'd say thats cheating. Don't stoop to his level. Be the bigger person.

I think the general issue I started with this, from my end, was more in jest than anything!

[Fluevog]

Originally Posted by Brother_Ambrose

It's good sportsmanship/in the spirit of the game to exchange lists prior to the game, allowing both players to ask questions about their opponent's list an minis. Your guys should be modeled for WYSISYG, so he shouldn't need to ask which one has deomition charges, he should be able to see.

I vehemently disagree to the first part - its like insisting to play poker only if you can see the other guy's cards. Exchanging lists robs the game of a degree of challenge, surprise and tact. What would poker be without bluffing?
Do we have to go so far as to draw out our exact deployments and assigning turns that reserves will show up? Are we that afraid of taking risks?

Now, as to WYSIWYG, I totally agree. You shouldn't try to decieve your opponent's by masking the equipment on your models or what weapons they are carrying - I've let people take back their Assault phase because they didn't realize they were charging an Aspiring Champ with Lightning Claws (it was a loaner army and they were "discretely" painted so as to not stand out).

But then again, how am I supposed to model my Farseer's psychic powers?
I can't. And you just won't know what's going to happen when you stroll into Mind War range. So everyone just let go - accept the risk - have fun

Fluevog

[MSguardsmen]

you know man thats really deep. i like that rep for you.

[Astral_Hawk]

But the psychic power argument is exactly why one should have a list on hand, to show and prove you have taken said power.

At the hobby store I work at, I have to arbitrate countless games because the kids don't write lists and end up arguing whether characters actually payed for their gear they use. The only way to prevent characters from "magically" gaining need gear is to have a list clearly present. And I've seen people with stacks of different lists so the only way to insure someone uses the same list through the whole game is to present it beforehand. If you play with friends and people you trust this isn't a problem, but with different players it become a problem.

Also the reason I believe people should always draw out their deployment zone is again that you are just playing a game. Certain armies benefit from being closer or further from their enemies and to insure fairness there are set rules to govern the game and enhance its playability. I'm sure we all remember are friends "invincible" G.I. Joe from our childhood. Again if a house rule works for you and your friends then who am I to say you can't though. Just remember that it doesn't work for everybody.

As for my opinion if somebody asks if a unit has a piece of gear you should tell them, if not to help smooth out your playing experience then to strengthen trust between players. That doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to tell them what gear you have. Many of my Space Marines have died needlessly because I didn't bother to checkout what I was assaulting.
"What do you mean it has seven attacks that allow no armor or invulnerable saves?!" <- Me
In the end though remember, it's just a game.

[masterofweirdness]

Astral Hawk, I agree with you in many ways. I say when you go to play at a game store you should have a army list, at least to say that you paid for what you said you paid for.

However, if someone decides to change what what wargear or whatever they have, then I'd leave right there. Its called cheating, and, frankly, I'd never play that person again. I am naturally a competitive person, and perhaps sometimes I have overlooked an inch when trying to fire at someone, or rolled an extra attack dice , but, I'm not about to go ahead and say that my normal sergeant actually have a powerweapon when it suits me, in this instance, I agree with Fluedog.

Also, as annoying as it may be, the rulebook DOES state that you DON'T have to tell your oppenent what weapons/wargear your models have, as long as the weapons and wargear are modelled properly.

Originally Posted by masterofweirdness

Astral Hawk, I agree with you in many ways. I say when you go to play at a game store you should have a army list, at least to say that you paid for what you said you paid for.

However, if someone decides to change what what wargear or whatever they have, then I'd leave right there. Its called cheating, and, frankly, I'd never play that person again. I am naturally a competitive person, and perhaps sometimes I have overlooked an inch when trying to fire at someone, or rolled an extra attack dice , but, I'm not about to go ahead and say that my normal sergeant actually have a powerweapon when it suits me, in this instance, I agree with Fluedog.

Also, as annoying as it may be, the rulebook DOES state that you DON'T have to tell your oppenent what weapons/wargear your models have, as long as the weapons and wargear are modelled properly.

Addressing your last post... How does that work with 'counts as' type weapons? Like a model wielding two swords 'counting as' lightning claws?

[Astral_Hawk]

Just to clarifiy I agree with Fluedog about wysiwyg too, especially because I love converting. I was saying that I have seen other players claim to have generally unmodelable gear, like psychic powers, and have known they didn't pay for it. Then they reach into their bag and pull out an alternate list from their bag to prove they payed for it. Thus the importance of at least pulling out your list and placing it nearby before playing. I wasn't trying to suggest wysiwyg was to be ignored.
And yes one rightly should leave the game and refuse to play that person. Sometimes unless the store owner kicks them out it can be hard to evade such people unfortunately. Like tournaments.
I didn't know the rulebook said that. Thanks for the info, that makes my horrible warrior squad of rending death that more terrifyingly spooky!
Now we know, and knowing is half the battle!

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Astral_Hawk

I didn't know the rulebook said that. Thanks for the info, that makes my horrible warrior squad of rending death that more terrifyingly spooky! Now we know, and knowing is half the battle!

Actually, its something about saying that if a unit begins in a rhino or other transport, you don't have to say what the unit is. However, I think thats a pretty good arguement for everything else.

And yes, count-as weapons do provide a problem, as does unmodelable wargear. Those are the type of items that I would say you'd have to point out beforehand.

Oh, and if you try to cheat in a tourement, you better be ready to disqualify yourself every time. And, don't you need to give a list before hand to clarify that you have the minimum of 2 Troops and an HQ?