Nightbringer question

[njfed]

I have been taking part in a 10 man 1750 point tourney at the local store. This weekend I the misfortune of having to fight Necrons with with my Necrons. Talk about ponderous. After six turns, I had lost ~350 points and my opponent had lost ~625. Our battle took 45 minutes longer than the next longest. Darn Necrons just will not die!

Anywho, I was using my Nightbringer. Not the best unit to use against Necrons since the other guy had only one CC unit and knew enough not to charge the Nightbringer. I don't use the big guy that often. While checking on his abilities a question came up.

The Codex states that during the enemy assault phase, after charges but before any attacks are made, the Nightbringer can force any unit within 6 inches with Str 4 models in it to "fall back" 2D6 inches. The closest model should be moved back first, and all other models moved back to maintain unit cohesion.

Now we did apply some logic to the way this works, as in all models must end up at least the distance rolled from the Nightbringer. This would prevent someone from placing the first model 10 inches back and then lining the other models in the unit up in a line so the last ones are in base contact with the Nightbringer.

However, how would you handle the situation when a unit of 10 models charged the Nightbringer and surrounded him. You end up with 6 models in base contact. So which is the nearest? This could be used to catapult the unit past the Nightbringer if the player who owned the unit decided to "fall back" in the direction of the charge and not in the direction the unit came from. Note, the Codex says they move back 2D6 inches as if falling back. It does not say this is a fall back move and the unit must move toward the deployment zone. Logic would dictate that the unit should fall back in the same general direction as they came.

Our ruling called for the unit to fall back in a 120 degree arc from the direction they came, but only if the power was used immediately after the charge. So if the unit charged straight south to reach the Nightbringer, they would have to retreat between the 10 and 2 o'clock positions on the clock, with 12 o'clock being straight north. After a round of combat, the player who owned the unit was free to choose which model to move first, and thus the direction of the fall back move. Makes sense?

Another issue with this power, what happens if the unit is knocked back into another friendly unit? An enemy unit? Off the board? Into impassable terrain?

Finally, someone brought up the possibility of pulling the enemy Necrons through your Monolith since the rules never state that you can't. My opponent and I decided this player was clearly insane. The rest of the player agreed. As punishment, he is being forced to play next week with a balanced space wolves army.

Okay, I made that last thing up. There is no such thing as a balanced space wolves army.

[Dan296]

thats a weird situation. logically, you would push them back in the direction they came from. in that case, they would all end up in a big circle. weird looking and unrealistic, but thats what would happen.
if they hit another unit or impassable terrain, i would position them on the edge of the terrain or 1'' away from an enemy unit, or the full distance if its friendly (and just mix them up)

but why would you use that power? i wouldve used the drain life power! if he is surrounded, then that seem the most logical choice. he is going before everyone else anyway, right?

but there are balanced space puppies.

[njfed]

Originally Posted by Dan296

but why would you use that power? i wouldve used the drain life power! if he is surrounded, then that seem the most logical choice. he is going before everyone else anyway, right?

but there are balanced space puppies.

Ummm, do I have to reveal my truly evil tactic? Oh, why not. Have a squad of 10 Pariahs wander along with the Nightbringer.

So your opponent has this really nasty CC unit with rending or some other power that ignores invulnerable saves. You don't want them anywhere close to your Nightbringer.

1. The enemy must make a leadership test to charge the Nightbringer. Opps, any unit within 6 inches of a Pariahs has a leadership of 7. Good luck with that charge.

2. Okay, you made your leadership test and charge. Opps, the Nightbringer just pushed you back 7 inches. No attacks for you!

3. Next turn the Pariahs pump you full of gauss fire before charging you with their Warscyths. No armor or invulnerable saves for you!

Nightbringer - 360 points
Ten Pariah - 360 points
Seeing the look on your opponent's face as his Terminator assault squad gets cut to ribbons - priceless!

[timjonesiddqd]

Originally Posted by njfed

Ummm, do I have to reveal my truly evil tactic? Oh, why not. Have a squad of 10 Pariahs wander along with the Nightbringer.

So your opponent has this really nasty CC unit with rending or some other power that ignores invulnerable saves. You don't want them anywhere close to your Nightbringer.

1. The enemy must make a leadership test to charge the Nightbringer. Opps, any unit within 6 inches of a Pariahs has a leadership of 7. Good luck with that charge.

2. Okay, you made your leadership test and charge. Opps, the Nightbringer just pushed you back 7 inches. No attacks for you!

3. Next turn the Pariahs pump you full of gauss fire before charging you with their Warscyths. No armor or invulnerable saves for you!

Nightbringer - 360 points
Ten Pariah - 360 points
Seeing the look on your opponent's face as his Terminator assault squad gets cut to ribbons - priceless!

Awesome, i should try this sometime soon :P thanks :P

[Warmaster Romulas]

hey NJfed ive been on the recieving end of such a mix
and it sucked (for me) its little things like that
that most people dont notice when they are about to charge
but does the leadership modifier work againt units that dont get any negative modifiers to their leadership?

Originally Posted by Warmaster Romulas

hey NJfed ive been on the recieving end of such a mix
and it sucked (for me) its little things like that
that most people dont notice when they are about to charge
but does the leadership modifier work againt units that dont get any negative modifiers to their leadership?

If it doesn't state it as a modifier or negative and just says 'fights at ___' or whatever, then yes. However if it says 'reduces enemy units ____' then i'd say no. (i.e. if the pariah special rule were to say one of the above things when it explains how it affects LD)

[Warmaster Romulas]

will this affect the ork MOB check ?
or the spacewolf leadership ?

Originally Posted by Warmaster Romulas

will this affect the ork MOB check ?
or the spacewolf leadership ?

Not sure, given as I don't play with or against those factions.

[Wakim]

By the looks of it, it`ll constantly change LD to 7 or lower

When aplying game logics, the fact that It counts as 7 (or lower) means that whatever happens it`ll never go above 7.

Originally Posted by wakim

By the looks of it, it`ll constantly change LD to 7 or lower

When aplying game logics, the fact that It counts as 7 (or lower) means that whatever happens it`ll never go above 7.

Yup, it'd effect everyone! Thats what I was trying to describe.

[Warmaster Romulas]

even the MOB check?
whick is simply a head count