Sonic Blaster + CCW = ?!?!?!?!

I've heard from both sides that the sonic blaster + CCW both does and does not give you +1 attack in close combat. I have always played it as no +1 attack, but recently at my local shop a kid has shown up who insists his all sonic blaster army gets this bonus. I've even had a guy who works for GW tell me this as well, but I just can't seem to find it in the book, or see where they are coming from.

I at first allowed it, just to play another EC army (always fun to find out who is closer to the perfection of Slaanesh!). However, he seems to insist on bending other rules I know aren't the way he interprets them, as the book says in black and white different than what he does, or flat dosen' say it at all. So, for my own satisfaction, I thought i'd ask, for the sake of having more than just locally biased opinion, since the kids pissed most of us off by being completely ignorant of the rules and rejecting all help to try and show him (nicely I might add) the correct way to play.

So.. Since Ikarus asked, and this kid came along, whats the verdict? Do they grant that delicious bonus or not?

[Perturabo]

I dont have my Chaos Space Marine Code to hand at the moment-does it class as a 1 handed weapon or a 2 handed weapon?

[experiment 626]

again, this is one of those things they've never bothered to clear up!O.o

i'd say though, go with the similar line that was used in the codex: daemonhunter hunter Q&A regarding psycannons & incinerators being one-handed or two-haned: "look at the models!" they're obviously two-handed!
so, as the models themselves are modeled as two-handed, i would say then that sonic blasters and blastmasters are both two-handed weapons!

as an aside, the doom siren rules were (yet again!) misprinted in the 4th printing... you are to use the rules as printed in the 3rd printing as they are the right ones! (fools can't do anything right! )

cheers!

[Perturabo]

Just had a look on my Interactive Army List and it has them down as one handed weapons!That surprised me to say the least!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

Just had a look on my Interactive Army List and it has them down as one handed weapons!That surprised me to say the least!

never go by the interactive army lists! they are simply a tool and not an offical codex... (this is from gw!)
considering all the glitches/problems with them anyways... (for example, our resisdent khorne player who uses those still argues that gifts of the gods don't count towards his daemonic total because army builder doesn't include them as counting!)

of corse, none of this will be settled untill gw does fix this, which they probably won't do untill '08 when the chaos 'dex is redone!

cheers!

[Perturabo]

Sorry-thats not what I meant!I wasnt laying down the law!
I never said it was official (I know GW's position on it being non-codex).
I was merely stating my surprise at them being down as one handed-despite them blatantly not being-Id class them more like Bolters, a two handed weapon.

[Dan296]

accourding to my logic, it doesnt. heres why
it replaces a bolter with a sonic blaster. bolters are what? two handed. it doesnt say replaces a bolter with a sonic blaster and CCW.
but what were the other things he was bending? and how did the game turn out?



just remember. if he had to bend the rules to win, then he obviously isnt a good player. since you let these things go, you are the bigger man (or woman...whatever.) if he bent the rules and still lost, you are also the much better player.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Perturabo

Sorry-thats not what I meant!I wasnt laying down the law!
I never said it was official (I know GW's position on it being non-codex).
I was merely stating my surprise at them being down as one handed-despite them blatantly not being-Id class them more like Bolters, a two handed weapon.

hmmmm... yeh, i know. i didn't mean to come off as sounding as though you were implying that the army builder is right, just trying to warn others who don't know how bad they really are! (we have a few people in the area who insist they're legal because they're put out by gw... probably why i hate them so much!)

granted they're a great way of quickly and cheaply getting all the army rules escensially, but they're just plain awfull in regards to the actual codex itself!

but i agree that sonic blaster are indeed two-handed! but really, i doubt we'll be getting a proper answer untill gw releases yet another faq (unlikely) or the new chaos codex is released in '08 (more likely!)

cheers!

[Ikarus]

Originally Posted by Dan296

accourding to my logic, it doesnt. heres why
it replaces a bolter with a sonic blaster. bolters are what? two handed. it doesnt say replaces a bolter with a sonic blaster and CCW.
but what were the other things he was bending? and how did the game turn out?



just remember. if he had to bend the rules to win, then he obviously isnt a good player. since you let these things go, you are the bigger man (or woman...whatever.) if he bent the rules and still lost, you are also the much better player.

Wrong.

In the codex it states under The Chaos Space Marine Entry:

Weapons: Each model may have a close combat weapon and either a bolter, or a bolt pistol.

You still have the ability to have to get a ccw as a base.

[Dan296]

i know that they can have CCW+BP, but the sonic blaster replaces a bolter, not bolt pistol.
do sonic blasters count as close combat weapons? because marines with bolters/CCW dont get the 2CCW bonus, so why would something that replaces a bolter get it? it doesnt make sense to me that it would.

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Dan296

i know that they can have CCW+BP, but the sonic blaster replaces a bolter, not bolt pistol.
do sonic blasters count as close combat weapons? because marines with bolters/CCW dont get the 2CCW bonus, so why would something that replaces a bolter get it? it doesnt make sense to me that it would.

all chaos marines *always* have a close combat weapon as standard...

however, it's usually a moot point as only models with the mark of nurgle get true grit...

cheers!

Originally Posted by experiment 626

again, this is one of those things they've never bothered to clear up!O.o

i'd say though, go with the similar line that was used in the codex: daemonhunter hunter Q&A regarding psycannons & incinerators being one-handed or two-haned: "look at the models!" they're obviously two-handed!
so, as the models themselves are modeled as two-handed, i would say then that sonic blasters and blastmasters are both two-handed weapons!

as an aside, the doom siren rules were (yet again!) misprinted in the 4th printing... you are to use the rules as printed in the 3rd printing as they are the right ones! (fools can't do anything right! )

cheers!

WHA HUH!?! Doom Siren rules are wrong? WHERE THE HADES AM I GOING TO GET THE RIGHT ONES?!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

WHA HUH!?! Doom Siren rules are wrong? WHERE THE HADES AM I GOING TO GET THE RIGHT ONES?!

aparently, you use the 3rd printing codex for the proper doom siren rules...
though, don't expect most tournaments to know this?! it was up on the faq for a bit, but last i checked, gw removed/changed the chaos faq?!!

i found this info out from a couple techpriest mates as one of them helped out with the original chaos faq...

besides, it wouldn't be the gw we all know and love if they didn't screw-up all the time and give us so much to complain about!

cheers!

[Dan296]

so...have we concluded? do they get it or not?

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Dan296

so...have we concluded? do they get it or not?

i think the general consensus is they don't get the +1A as sonic blasters are clearly 2-handed when you look at the models!
(likewise for blastmasters too!)

cheers!

[MSguardsmen]

ah the best you can do is RAW and look at the models or just roll a dice. 1-3 see it his way 4-6 see it your way on a roll of 1 or 6 smack each other across the face and give me $5 each.

We did it this way. I played by his rules, and smacked his ass down 3 rounds in a row. He came back today and said his army could beat me under my 'lame ass rules you(I) made up.". I proceed to beat his ass, again, and again, and again. He then talked smack about a local Khornate player, and a friend of mine whom I team up with a lot, so we took him and his little cousin (spoilt rich kids) who plays Black Legion, and proceeded to grind them into the dust and beyond. Picture this: 3K points each of World Eaters and Emperors Children (now all half painted too!) against about 6.5K of BL/EC. It is so sweet to see Abbadon beaten down like a little ***** by a squad of posssesed.

Ending: Sonic weaponry does not give +1 A. And just because your mommy buys you models, and you melt them together horribly with glue, then slap a 1st grade paitn job on them, dosen't mean you know more than the big boys. I told him afterwards, sportingly, that if he needed help on his list, or if his cousin did, I'd be happy to help. So far, it dosen't look like he'll take me up on it, but I offered, eh?

[Dan296]

hahahahahahahahah!!!
I LOVE BEATING DOWN ARROGANT LITTLE KIDS!!! or arrogant anyone.
if you talk big you gotta play big. people who are truly good dont NEED to brag.

abbadon isnt that nice when hes staring down 10 possesed w/ talons. khorne possesed pwn anything.

but anyway......
how is it that he reasons that he could beat you when he DOESNT get the bonus, right after you beat him when he DOES. thats retarted, make fun of him.

[MSguardsmen]

Where the hell are all the fathers beating their kids? hell when i was younger my dad put me on my arse once a week. it sure did set me right. i never back talked anyone or tried to talk big since then.

maybe these parents instead of throwing money at their kids should turn off the tv set down with the brat and just hit him

[Librarian_Tigurius]

hehe send this kid maryland way... annapolis mall GW preferably... or Glen burnie battle bunker (i bet his rich parents will pay for the trip if he cries enough) i will use my (finally) bought imperial fist 5 terminator squad DS army... or i will use my black templars... the imperium shall show that fool what happens when you don't follow the codex!! MWAHAHAHA!!! but yeah i am pretty sure that it is 2 handed... but if i was to play him i would let him have his rules and just walk through him with terminators... or my black templars... high marshal helbrect gets +d3 attacks in the first round of close combat... i will take apart all that are in range and then he can have fun doin nothing! heh


But seriously... if you really are havin a problem just dice off for it... if he wins you kill him faster with superior strategy if you win you beat him with... superior strategy heh GW will have probably heard of this and when they update the codex (they have been good about little problems lately... there is just the think with the eldar autarchs... but they are all special and stuff... havent noticed anything in the dark angels yet but i don't play them...) they should fix it all...!