taking away both saves?

[Dan296]

i have encountered certain things in games that would, like a lightning claw and a dreadaxe (chaos weapon that takes away inv. saves)
or someone with deamonic stature and a dreadaxe.
when we asked the manager he said that you would have to choose which one to negate. any thoughts? is it possible to take away both types of saves?

[Ikarus]

Woah, I never ever thought of that idea before, or came across it in my WH40k. It is rather an interesting choice of possibilities, but I will go with the more reasonable approach to try to answer this rules question.

Since the Daemon Prince is very large, his weapons will cut through you like cheese. Since the Daemon Prince cuts you like cheese, and this dreadaxe goes through your invurn - you just go cut into shredded cheese.


BUT, there is a difference between:

L. Claw + Dread Axe. To my undertanding you may only select ONE cc weapon in close combat? One or the other, because you hit them with either one.. not both, so you don't negate two things.

D. Stature + Dread Axe - In my opinion this will work. Stature; the being of a Monsterous Creature + Dread Axe allows this.

But I do not know all the answers to the universe, I just merely observe and reason.

-Ikarus

[crazedgorilla]

"I do not know all the answers to the universe, I just merely observe and reason.

-Ikarus"

Wow...thats good....that should be published in a book or something....

[Garrett]

Ikarus is right on this one.

If you have two weapons you have to choose which you're using (and oh! the arguments about powerblades and the harlequin's kiss we used to have...).

If it's a property granted by an outside of combat factor (monstrous creatures ignoring armor saves) then it'll negate both when you swing that dreadaxe.

[Dan296]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Ikarus is right on this one.
If it's a property granted by an outside of combat factor (monstrous creatures ignoring armor saves) then it'll negate both when you swing that dreadaxe.

yea thats what the GW store manager said, but just for then and he said to ask some other people just to be sure. cause it makes sense.
deamon prince w/ dreadaxe=shredded seer council! eldar players beware...

[Ravens_Shadow]

Just thought I'd point out that it's possible for all 3 saves to be taken away. The Daemonhunters' Incinerator is AP 4, and ONLY allows armor saves.

This leads to an interesting question though, since the rules of the Incinerator specifically say that ONLY armor saves may be taken, what about special saves that are not really invulnerable, but in the rules say to take them no matter what? Like I think there is some Eldar leader... can't remember the name lol, but she takes a save against her leadership somehow. This would be a very strange, unusual, and confusing situation

[Torquemada Coteaz]

on the DStat and DAxe I agree.
However GW staff cannot be trusted to be the arbiter here. This is the problem with the "RoolzBoyz" who are notorious for messing up rules. It's because they didn't write the 40k rules and could only "observe and reason" and also interpret rules as THEIR view.
The general suggestion I get for things like these is to reach an agreement with your gaming partner, hopefully before hand. Also if you are in a club it's best to play by club rules, as it's easier.

Ravens: I think the "special" save could also be the Turbo Boost inv save? there is a lot of arguement as to whether incinerator/psycannon ignores it, because it's not "becomes" but "treated as". and sadly no official ruling by the 40k rules writers have surfaced.

Of course, when all else fails, settle this like the gamers you are: with Dice and Coin Flips

[rintinglen]

I can not put hands to my copy of the 2004 Chapter Approved at this instant moment--some chowder-head forgot to put it back the last time he used it--but in there it was specifically stated that a deamon prince with Deamonic Stature and dread axe does ignore both armour and Invulnerable saves. Likewise, the Nightbringer's living metal scythe does the same. In both cases, you have a magic weapon that ignores invulnerable saves wielded by a monstrous creature=really bad times for most mere mortals.
Also, I read someplace in one of the White Dwarfs (I think) that a cure for turbo-boosting aliens was in fact weapons that ignore invulnerable saves and the incinerator and the psycannon were both mentioned. (Realizing as I write this that the mere presence of verbage in a white dwarf article is not all that authoritative.)

[Librarian_Tigurius]

i dont have a rulebook handy right now (lost it in my pile of crap... i mean room) but i am pretty sure that you must use one close combat weapon in combat (you choose before you roll to hit) you may use a combination but you must declare which roll is which type of weapon... (you still get the +1 attack for having additional close combat weapon) for example my friend has a librarian with lightning claws that he thought the force weapon carried over to the lightning claws and we pointed it out to him in the rulebook (as i said i can't find my rulebook) he remodeled his librarian and now has the force weapon and a lightning claw (i think a waste of time he should have a powerfist if anything... but his choice) as for the daemonic stature and dreadaxe he ignores armor and invuln... because he counts as a monsterous creature and has the weapon benefit because the monsterous creature carries over and isn't a weapon choice he must make this is a very cool option that i would take if i didn't use Lucius as my only HQ... (my other points are buried in squads with sonic blasters... blast masters... sarge with power wep and sonic blaster and doom siren... expensive but VERY effective against the armies around my GW.... (i play against tau, eldar, marines, and a couple of chaos and that is about it)