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| Rules Help Just came back from a game and suspect your opponent was cheating? Or just stuck on an idea pertaining to rules? Well this place is designed to get questions answered. |
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11-18-2006
| #1 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth    Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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|  Termie's firing a heavy weapon then assaulting In Codex: Space Marines it says that Terminators can move and fire with heavy weapons. Can they assault after shooting a heavy weapon though? I don't think they should be able to, but I've had feedback from other people that they can. Whats your view on it?
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11-18-2006
| #2 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra     Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1  | I don't know, though it's something that GW should clear up I think. In my opinion, I'd say that they shouldn't be able to.
__________________  "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-18-2006
| #4 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| Thats what the people I talked to said. But 'moving' and 'assaulting' are very clearly defined in 40k. I didn't think that just because you can move and fire a weapon you could assault with it too. (Look at Tau Battlesuits- they have no penalty for moving and shooting with Rapid Fire weapons, but they can't assault after using them)
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11-18-2006
| #5 (permalink) |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical   Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| well, if you apply 'RAW', then no terminators can't assault if they fire heavy weapons... look at the rules for bikes on pg53 BBB; bikes are clearly noted as being able to fire rapid fire/heavy weapons and still assault. terminators have no such rule... still, it's one of those massive grey areas that many consider a huge over-sight. and as always, we'll just have to hope and prey that gw at some point, gives us a clairification! (i wouldn't hold your breath though...) cheers!
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11-18-2006
| #6 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| Ok, thanks for all your help. Next time the person I'm playing tries that again I'll talk to him about it. Perhaps a dice-off is in order.........
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11-18-2006
| #7 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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 you could always dice off, but really it is fairly clear that termies don't to fire heavy weapon and assault anymore... personally it would kinda be like saying, 'well your grey knight's land raider crusader still says heavy 3 so we'll dice off to see if you get the newer heavy 4 rending profile...' just show your opponent how the bikes are very clearly worded that they can fire and assault... if termies really could, then you'd think they'd have worded it like the bikes entry?! (but then, gw did forget to publish half the transport rules...) and also, IIRC gw have never clearly stated in either v3 or v4 that termies can fire heavy weapons and still assault... cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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11-18-2006
| #8 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| Ok, I'll do that. Question I've been meaning to ask though, what do I do if they don't agree with me? (rules lawyers) Is that when the dice come out? I've never really have to raise an issue like this with people before, but having Terminators fire off 4 rending shots towards a Wraithlord and then charge it is just a little too annoying.......
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11-18-2006
| #9 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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my advice would be if it's not a tournament setting, then simply refuse to play that person anymore if they continue to argue... (it's supposed to be fun for both players!) RAW principle should be enough though, it's not in the wargear description and hasn't been for quite awhile! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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11-18-2006
| #11 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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it's basically jervis johnson's newest mandate for all uk tournaments and is becoming the main practice in all games... in the event of a rules dispute, you are to apply the rule as it is writen. cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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11-18-2006
| #12 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| Ok, thanks! Well, I shall make sure I use it.
__________________ By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's, I mean. - Mark Twain |
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11-18-2006
| #13 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1 | Indeed, though you will always get rules lawers outside of competition.
__________________ "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-18-2006
| #14 (permalink) |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| well, i've also just had the chance to track down all my v3 codices and you should also point out that no v3 codex *ever* mentioned termies assaulting when they fired their heavy weapons... ever since the birth of 3rd edition, termies cannot charge in the same turn they fire heavy weapons! cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion |
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11-18-2006
| #15 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1 | Yeah, but just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it's impossible (And BTW, we use 4th Ed now)
__________________ "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-18-2006
| #16 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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the only thing that has changed is of corse the 5+ invulnerable save, and smurf termies can now always deep strike wether or not the mission uses the deep strike rules... (all you chaos players out there sadly need the deep strike rules to be in play in order to teleport  )cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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11-18-2006
| #17 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1 | I guess that the debate will never have a definitive answer until GW make one. It's like the stupid old, "It doesn't actually say in the Termie army list entry that they actually ware Termie armour" question, which I, even when used in a humorous context, find incredibly annoying.
__________________ "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-18-2006
| #18 (permalink) |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| agreed! there seems to be this idea that just because it says 'move and fire heavy weapons' people seem to believe that the intent is to take it one step futher and so they add in the 'may assault too!' i think the funniest thing i've seen a player argue about terminators is the idiot who tried to say that terminators only get a 3+ armour save due to the misprint in the wargear book!O.o cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion |
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11-18-2006
| #19 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| How the hell did he manage that?? That is hilarious!!
__________________ By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's, I mean. - Mark Twain |
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11-18-2006
| #20 (permalink) | |
| Filthy, Dirty Radical Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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but yes, in the wargear book, terminator armour is listed as giving a 3+/5+ save.  cheers!
__________________ "Who are you to question my methods?! A 'Puritan' is simply a coward who hides behind a veil of pretended faith and denounces his loyal brother as a traitor out of simple jealousy!" - Inquisitor Odion | |
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11-18-2006
| #21 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1 | I know, Editor my arse.
__________________ "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-19-2006
| #22 (permalink) |
| Master Procrastinator   Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: As a figment of my own deranged imagination, i don't actually exist anywhere. Or London, UK.
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Blog Entries: 1 | hmmm... this makes chaos termies worse as their basic twin bolters are rapid fire weapons. kinda makes it pointless to shoot with them at all. the fluff for terminator armour contains the phrase "..fitted with sophisticated suspensors and targeting equipment allowing them to fire even the heaviest weapons in the move..." or someting like that, and i'm sure i've read somewhere that termies count as stationary when firing. no sure if i have a point to make here, just thinking out loud. |
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11-19-2006
| #23 (permalink) |
| The Ruler of Earth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Good old England!
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| Ok, thats fine. As soon as you reach a decision, please post it.
__________________ By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's, I mean. - Mark Twain |
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11-19-2006
| #24 (permalink) |
| High Lord of Terra Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kenticky Fried Children
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Blog Entries: 1 | They do, of course, count as stationary when firing, which I have discovered is what the actual rule is, so no, they cannot assault.
__________________ "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" "Let's put a smile on that face!" "I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve." "Madness, as you know, is like gravity … all it takes is a little push." "Why so serious?!" |
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11-19-2006
| #25 (permalink) | |
| Master Procrastinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: As a figment of my own deranged imagination, i don't actually exist anywhere. Or London, UK.
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