Eldar Codex Map

[Inquisitor Ralei]

After looking at the Galaxy Map on p15 of the Eldar Codex I've been trying to find what the locations mentioned represent, any help would be welcome.

These are my interpretations;

Dark Gates of Rhidhol

This is most likely the Gates of Vaul although this location is also near the moon Baal (which has an interesting history).

Cursus of Alganar

This is definately Tallarn.

Moon of Nightmares

I have no idea what this represents. I've been of several web Galaxy Maps trying to find a world that lies on the same plane as Pavonis and Tallarn and is South of the EoT. The best I've come up with is a world called Thoth, one of the worlds encountered by Macharius and tainted by Chaos...subsequently issued Exterminatus.
Another possibility is that this is the world where the Firebrands made their last stand against the Necrons of the Tomb World (I can't remember if that issue of WD actually said what Segmentum that was in).

Ath-Ethon

Again, no idea. It's near Craftworld Alaitoc so I think it could be the place mentioned in the Necron Codex where the Pariah Assassin shrine is...the Moon of Nightmares could also be this I suppose.

Lyriax

Obviously the prison of The Outsider. In Xenology it says that The Outsider was ensnared by the Chains of Kurnous (the God of the Hunt), his daughter is called Lileath so maybe Lyriax is some sort of homage to her? Afterall, she died tricking The Deceiver to his prison on Naogeddon.

Shrine of Elronhir

Possible shrine of an Eldar hero?

Tau Empire

So GW is in agreement that the Eldar created the Ethereals as mentioned in Xenology...interesting.

[shad0w_wraith]

i dont really understand much about the eldar as ive not really been intereted in them but with the new realease im begeining to like them so ill see if i can find any onfo whilst learning moer about them

Shadow wraith

[shad0w_wraith]

i found out a little bit
Rhidhol: A place in Eldar mythology, unknown whether it is fictional or whether it actually existed.

ath ethon is a was a exodite world were both orks and the imperium fought over. it is now inhabited by feral eldar who were once ulthwe black guardians sent to defend the planet.

and yes the shrine of elronhir is a shrine to a geat hero who was supposed to have wiped out the race of monkiegh. although he did it turned out they were spread further accross the gallaxy than the eldar knew.

i hope that helps.
Shadow wraith

[Mechanicus]

I posted something like this on Warseer... so I'll post what I found:

The Dark Gates of Rhidhol. That rung a bell, and it's quite clearly reminiscent of a phrase from the 3rd edition codex: "Elthir corannir rhiantha en" translated as: "the Eldar maiden who weeps tears for the warrior-folk in the starlight which shines upon the waters of Rhidhol during the winter". It is a deep expression of grief and loss, with implications of eternal woe and heartache. If the Gates of Rhidhol are the same as the Gates of Varl (and they could be, although the Rhidhol Gates are facing Baal, and the Varl Gates face the Halo Stars in the 4th Edition Rulebook), then it sounds like the Eldar fought a battle there, and probably won (because the C'tan want to get into the Gates of Varl in the 41st Millennium), but suffered grievous losses. Could this possibly be the place where Khaine fought Khaelis Ra? Either that or where Eldar fought Chaos there...

Lyriax. In the same place as the Outsider's sphere. Possibly the Eldar's name for it. On a different note, that means the Tomb Worlds where the C'tan were likely entombed go: Lyriax, Mars, Naogeddon, and then Pavonis. I'm willing to bet that something connected to the C'tan will be on a world beginning with O. (L, M, N, O, P)

The Talismans of Vaul (located not far from Cypra Mundi, in Segmentum Obscurus, if I'm reading the map correctly. Could be near Port Maw; IE 12th Black Crusade to capture the Talismans of Vaul)

The Shrine of Elronhir (located slightly north west of Naogeddon) Not sure what this means. Possibly some sort of monument a hero of a war?[Thanks to this thread, I know he was the one who wiped out the Mon-keigh]

Cursus of Alganar (located south east of Tarsis Ultra, on a line directly east of the words Segmentum Tempestus on the 4th edition rulebook map) No idea here... EDIT: Located on Tallarn, and it's one of the three mythical Gateways to the Gods. Probably created by the Old Ones, a gateway directly into the warp.

Moon of the Nightmares (located near the south western edge of Segmentum Pacificus) No idea here... Maybe something to do with Chaos or the Nightbringer?

Ath-Ethon (located in the very south corner of Ultima Segmentum) Again, no idea... EDIT: Ath-Ethon is the Eldar name for Rigal IV. Battle between Eldar and Imperials there.

Well, that's what I've got from the map. NOTE: all the locations are estimated from combining the Eldar map with the main rulebook's one, so they could be wrong.

One question about what was said:

Obviously the prison of The Outsider. In Xenology it says that The Outsider was ensnared by the Chains of Kurnous (the God of the Hunt), his daughter is called Lileath so maybe Lyriax is some sort of homage to her? Afterall, she died tricking The Deceiver to his prison on Naogeddon.

What I can find in Xenology says:

In pearls of Vaul is Dragon becalmed.
In chains of Kesnous is [untranslatable] ensnared.
In blood of Lilien is Siren silenced.
An' in laughter, just that, counfounded is, this Deathly Khaelis Ra, and lost for [untranslatable].

We don't know who "Siren" is, and "[untranslatable]" is no help. We know that the Talismans of Vaul did stop the Dragon's attack on the Eldar, and he evidently went to stasis after that. I can't find anything to suggest that Lileath died to send the Nightbringer to stasis on Pavonis, or for that matter that untranslatable is the Outsider. Kurnous (What I take Kesnous is meant to be) I had never heard to have anything to do with defeating a C'tan. But we do know that Kurnous caught a C'tan somehow... Well, the only two that we know were sent to sleep by specific Eldar Gods are the Dragon and the Outsider, who were taken down by Vaul and Cegorach respectively. And Khaelis Ra we have no idea about, except that he was attacked by a fleet of ships shortly after descending into his tomb. The Deciever is known as the one who went to stasis last, but the circumstances are unknown.

Moon of Nightmares

I have no idea what this represents. I've been of several web Galaxy Maps trying to find a world that lies on the same plane as Pavonis and Tallarn and is South of the EoT. The best I've come up with is a world called Thoth, one of the worlds encountered by Macharius and tainted by Chaos...subsequently issued Exterminatus.
Another possibility is that this is the world where the Firebrands made their last stand against the Necrons of the Tomb World (I can't remember if that issue of WD actually said what Segmentum that was in).

It could be Thoth, but I doubt it was Seneshal (The last stand of the Firebrands)... No C'tan slept there, but there is no indication of an Eldar attack, or anything to make it seem worthy of the name "moon of nightmares"... Though the Culexus Assassin Temple idea does seem to fit the name...

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Eldar created Ethereals? kindly do extrapolate I REALLY want to hear !!!

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Mechanicus

I
We don't know who "Siren" is, and "[untranslatable]" is no help. We know that the Talismans of Vaul did stop the Dragon's attack on the Eldar, and he evidently went to stasis after that. I can't find anything to suggest that Lileath died to send the Nightbringer to stasis on Pavonis, or for that matter that untranslatable is the Outsider. Kurnous (What I take Kesnous is meant to be) I had never heard to have anything to do with defeating a C'tan. But we do know that Kurnous caught a C'tan somehow... Well, the only two that we know were sent to sleep by specific Eldar Gods are the Dragon and the Outsider, who were taken down by Vaul and Cegorach respectively. And Khaelis Ra we have no idea about, except that he was attacked by a fleet of ships shortly after descending into his tomb. The Deciever is known as the one who went to stasis last, but the circumstances are unknown.

I never said that the Nightbringer (Khaelis Ra) was defeated by Lileath. All I know is that he was tricked by the Deceiver into consuming his fellow C'tan.
The Outsider was tricked by the Laughing God into eating his fellow C'tan also. I believe that the Laughing God helped him go insane (by eating his fellow C'tan) and then Kurnous imprisoned him in the "Dyson Sphere".
The Siren surely has to be the Deceiver (to me at least) and the only way to trick him is to play him at his own game. Who better to do this than Lileath (Goddess of Dreams).

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

Eldar created Ethereals? kindly do extrapolate I REALLY want to hear !!!

Basically, Xenology insinuates that the Ethereals were created by the Eldar using Q'orl phermone stacks (the diamond shaped thing on their forehead). They stole away a Swarm Queen at the end of the 37th Millenium...typical cowardly Eldar!
Further reading basically shows that one of the remaining Old Ones (Qah-he who lingers) sped up the Tau's evolution but never finished (due to his death at the birth of Slaanesh) and so I reckon that the Eldar (being the Old Ones most trusted servants) upon seeing the Tau exterminate themselves tried to stabilise the race by creating the Ethereals.
Of course, some people think it was the Laughing God (who is an Old One) who sped up the Tau and by de facto the Harlequins who stole away the Swarm Queen. I don't believe this at all since he would have made sure that the Tau would never have gotten into such a sorry state...unlike Qah who died later.

[Mechanicus]

I

never said that the Nightbringer (Khaelis Ra) was defeated by Lileath. All I know is that he was tricked by the Deceiver into consuming his fellow C'tan.

Ah, sorry! My mind must have wondered there, I meant Deceiver.

The Outsider was tricked by the Laughing God into eating his fellow C'tan also. I believe that the Laughing God helped him go insane (by eating his fellow C'tan) and then Kurnous imprisoned him in the "Dyson Sphere".

Having thought about it, I can see where you're coming from here; but there is an account of the battle between Cegorach and the Outsider, here. No mention of Kurnous, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't his trap or somthing like. After all, he was the God of the Hunt, so it's at least possible that he could find a way to temporarily capture a C'tan...

The Siren surely has to be the Deceiver (to me at least) and the only way to trick him is to play him at his own game. Who better to do this than Lileath (Goddess of Dreams).

Perhaps. I'm still not sold... I would immediately have associated Siren with the screams of the Outsider as he goes insane, but I'm not sure...

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Ah, I see about the eldar creating ethereal. any reasons on why they did it other than "continue old-ones work"?
Also, I'm curious as to the existence of a dyson sphere in 40k as they are pretty much impossible to create (the amount of matter needed and the specific types thereof would mean demolishing and absorbing entire sectors of the galaxy to manufacture super-dense metals at the atomic level.)

this is GREAT info. I was not able to purchase a xenology book (short on cash, and it wasnt that high on my priority list) though now im absolutely intrigued by it, i may consider getting one

[Mechanicus]

Also, I'm curious as to the existence of a dyson sphere in 40k as they are pretty much impossible to create (the amount of matter needed and the specific types thereof would mean demolishing and absorbing entire sectors of the galaxy to manufacture super-dense metals at the atomic level.)

It's presumed that this "Dyson Sphere Equivilant", which I'll call Lyriax, because it sounds better, is made of living metal. This would mean that because it is capable of energy-matter transformations, it would simply be a case of just feeding it energy, and telling it how to grow, and you're there. Just to drive home how big Lyriax is, here's an image that a former moderator on another forum calculated.

Mind you, this depends on the interpretation of the Kurnous line. Either Kurnous created Lyriax, or Kurnous captured the Outsider and his fellow Yngir, and Cegorach finished them off, which is the theory I'm currently going for (I change my mind alot ).

this is GREAT info. I was not able to purchase a xenology book (short on cash, and it wasnt that high on my priority list) though now im absolutely intrigued by it, i may consider getting one

You'd have to get it through amazon or play.com, because it's now out of print, but I do recommend it.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

hmm energy-matter transformations would (nearly 100% of the time) have to result in creating equal amounts of antimatter.
how that would work (how they dispose of antimatter) im not so sure
perhaps gauss weapons are antimatter powered?
Ok nevermind, just pm and we'l talk that way i dont want to clog this thread with useless byproduct any further

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Mechanicus

It's presumed that this "Dyson Sphere Equivilant", which I'll call Lyriax, because it sounds better, is made of living metal. This would mean that because it is capable of energy-matter transformations, it would simply be a case of just feeding it energy, and telling it how to grow, and you're there. Just to drive home how big Lyriax is, here's an image that a former moderator on another forum calculated.

Mind you, this depends on the interpretation of the Kurnous line. Either Kurnous created Lyriax, or Kurnous captured the Outsider and his fellow Yngir, and Cegorach finished them off, which is the theory I'm currently going for (I change my mind alot ).

Why bother calculating how big Lyriax is when the Necron Codex gives it as 1.04 AU?
The new Eldar Codex mentions about the imprisonment of Kurnous and Isha by Khaine...could "the chains of Kurnous" refer to his bonds and Lyriax be the prison that originally confined Kurnous and Isha?
I still say Cegorach merely fooled and played the C'tan into the waiting hands of Kurnous (for the Outsider) and Khaine (for the Nightbringer).
I forgot to say, thanks for the information on Ath-Ethon but where is some info on Rigal IV (best I could find that fits is Regal IV but that was DE vs SoB)?

[shad0w_wraith]

Regil IV (Regi IV) Regi Has a temple for the Imperial Sisters of Battle. Battle between Dark Eldar pirates and Imperial troops in 547.M39.

yeah thats what i foun to but its spelt differently

[shad0w_wraith]

actually i just found this

Rigal IV Rigal 1V Close to Ath-Ethon.
best i could find though not much info to go on

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

this is GREAT info. I was not able to purchase a xenology book (short on cash, and it wasnt that high on my priority list) though now im absolutely intrigued by it, i may consider getting one

Xenology for me is the best BL publication for a very long time!
The beauty of the book is that it's told in a story that bears repeated re-reading to spot minor things that make you go "ah, clever". The characters are also named after well known people...Magos Biologis Sharle Darvus is a prime example and the world under scrutiny is called Biegel 9!

[Mechanicus]

Why bother calculating how big Lyriax is when the Necron Codex gives it as 1.04 AU?

I need to be clearer here - he calculated the size of the Earth and sun for comparison and made a diagram of it - that's all.

The new Eldar Codex mentions about the imprisonment of Kurnous and Isha by Khaine...could "the chains of Kurnous" refer to his bonds and Lyriax be the prison that originally confined Kurnous and Isha?

Possibly, but the fact that it is being avoided by the Tyranid Hive Fleet leads me to believe that it is just the Outsiders sphere. And I'm not sure where the Eldar Gods were actually located. They could have been in the Webway, which is likely considering they may have been Old Ones, which would indicate that their prison was in the webway.

I forgot to say, thanks for the information on Ath-Ethon but where is some info on Rigal IV (best I could find that fits is Regal IV but that was DE vs SoB)?

Eldar 3rd edition Codex, in a quote box underneath a unit description. I would be more specific, but I've lost my codex at the moment... EDIT: Found it, page 10.

I'll post more tomorrow, but I've got things to do.

EDIT: More:

I still say Cegorach merely fooled and played the C'tan into the waiting hands of Kurnous (for the Outsider) and Khaine (for the Nightbringer).

I'm sticking with the thought that Kurnous perhaps captured the Outsider and the other Yngir, and led them to Cegorach.

I think that the Nightbringer-Khaine battle you're referring to should take place much earlier than Kaelis Ra going into stasis, because that's where Vaul made the 99 swords in return for Isha and Kurnous' release. That was the start of the War in Heaven for the Eldar, if I'm reading this right. This war lasted for years, it says in the Eldar codex, and the Enslaver plague was caused by the psychic turmoil caused by the young races and the Old Ones. This indicates that Kaelis Ra's defeat by Khaine was not his final battle, otherwise he would have been entombed for many years before the Enslaver plague began to wipe out the food. But of course, I could be wrong...

[Inquisitor Ralei]

It's all a rich tapestry.

[Killermoose]

Hey! Anyone fancy explaining exactly how the Tau were created? I have caught snatches of it here and there, but I would find it really interesting if someone put down everything they knew in order of it happening. Thanks a load guys!

[Inquisitor Ralei]

I recommend you buy Xenology to make your own mind up on the matter as a lot of the material can be interpreted subjectively.
However, I will try and give you my version and reasoning how the Tau came to be.

Xenology says that 3 Old Ones survived the War in Heaven (the war between the C'tan and Old Ones, not the re-written version in the new Eldar Codex!), these are Kaela Mensha Khaine, Cegorach and Qah (as he's known to the Hrud).
It says in Xenology that he left the Hrud 500,000 years ago to pursue some "great work", this IMO is him speeding up Humanity's evolution/development to combat the inevitable re-awakening of the C'tan and Necrons. Remember, the Old Ones left us as tree dwelling apes with no purpose in their plans but with most of their creations dead and shadows of their former selves, Qah probably saw the use Humanity could now serve.
It's my belief that during this time he also embarked upon speeding the Tau's evolution up as well (he had plenty of time on his hands afterall!). It is important to note that Humanity and the Tau were already around and simply sped up...unlike the Eldar and Krork who were created by the Old Ones. The Tau started as hoofed four legged herbivores and from reading the dissection report of the Tau Ethereal, this reinforces that assumption. It says that the Tau have vertical ribs and some of their limbs (their legs) are very frail due to non-uniform accelerated evolution in the past.
This is where it now gets hazy, the birth of Slaanesh 10,000 years ago caused the death of Qah and therefore his ultimate plan for the Tau remains unknown. He started them off down the right path but by the 37th Millenium they were killing each other and extinction loomed for them. Seeing this, the Eldar kidnapped a Q'orl Swarm Queen and used parts of its physiology (its phermone stacks...since the Tau have an excellent sense of smell) to create the Ethereal caste which would unite all the other castes and stop the inevitable extinction of the race.

For those who have read Xenology, I'm interested in what you make of the stone tablet at the end of the book. Especially the part coming from Qah's depiction on the tablet. Do you interpret this at face value or do you have your own explanation? I wish it told you how old the tablet was! If it's less than 10,000 years old then it's probably best to take it at face value but if it is older than that then it could be something else...creation of the Emperor perhaps? A slight homage to the Star Child Theory?

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Hmm... Xenology seems awesome.
However (no offense) I'm much more inclined to take GW fluff against BL's.
considering it's BLACK LIBRARY.
Their writers are pretty much infamous for creating fluff that's contrary to GW's. (not as much in the artbooks and stuff as the novels, but generally BL is less trusted, for me, than GW)

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

However (no offense) I'm much more inclined to take GW fluff against BL's.
considering it's BLACK LIBRARY.

Yeah, I don't class BL as official either but the official GW fluff supports the idea that the Tau did not evolve naturally and were tampered with at some point in the past.
The Eldar also seem to have some connection with them otherwise why would the Tau empire be marked on their map?
I reckon that GW actually supports some of the ideas put forth in Xenology.

[Killermoose]

So the Eldar gods are old ones? Please say more. And also, I have read somewhere that the Tyranids might have been created by the Old Ones too, perhaps as a last resort to wipe all life from the galaxy, so that the C'tan could not eat. If anyone knows anything about it please reply, or if I am just spouting crud feel free to tell me!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Well, old ones are supposedly the first race, and created basically all of the psychic-sensitive races to combat C'tan/Necrons and for other purposes.
which brings in the whole daemon/chaos thing about psyckers and why a lot of their creations died.
as far as i know. (My knowledge of fluff timewise goes back to about Emepror's Ascension and conquering of terra, then it's very vague)