End of Imperium

[shadowhawk]

Another questoin im afraid, kinda related to the emperor one iguess, but im wondering, do you all think the imperium of man will fall. I mean i realize its being attacked almost constantly, but there are trillions and trillions of men, and space marines. And the bad guys always fight amond each toher too, also possible if the IOM gets desperate they might ally with Tau.??
JUst your thouhgts on the matter.

[Elros Narmolanya]

Tau teaming with the imperium would be kool :P the Eldar have teamed with some of the Imperium like the Tallarns and Gothic battlefleets, maybe they would join forces someday too?

[Inquisitor Ralei]

The IoM don't ally with the Tau or the Eldar.
The only reason the Eldar helped in the Gothic War and 13th Black Crusade was because it directly affected them also and the Imperium is a useful meat shield. Be under NO illusion, the Eldar don't even know what altruism is!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

the imperium will DEFINITELY fall, what makes it cool is that we're like cornered animals, fighting uber-heroically and putting off that end date for many thousand years
orks will rule after that

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

some may say the imparium will fall. i wont risk a guess, but either way, i dont think it will be any time soon (this knowing, of course, that GW will never advance the story line - i mean soon as in in-game years)

[Cagarner]

I believe that eventually the imperium, and the whole galaxy, will eventually be consumed by tyranids. Even the orks could not survive against the tyranids once the main wave of tyranids come from the great void. Unfortunatly the galaxy will inevitably end up being a lifeless place, just as so many galaxies before it. It may take a thousand years, or even a million years, but it will happen.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

hmm if a had to venture a guess as to who the culprit would be id say chaos - unnumberd legions of daemons and corruption without compare has got to win out in the end

[Torquemada Coteaz]

ok lemme reiterate:
imperium WILL fall, not within GW's time, but speaking in 40k time here it WILL fall, not that GW will go anywhere near that time period. (im guessing M50 at LEAST)
the imperium was set up by GW to be the "best empire beset from all sides fighting last desperate heroic stand to die in a really spetacular fashion and take a lot down with us" type thing.

and as i said, orks kill everything. humans are the only thing keeping the greenskin tide in check, once imperium falls they will shortly consolidate band together and kill all of 'nids (who aren't THAT many) and chaos,well, could corrupt some but orks are not susceptable like humans. Orks DO number far more than the entire human population after all. (if i can get Adam Brown on this forum, you guys can all ask him about it)

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

humans keep ork numbers in check. with nothing else to kill the will more than happily turn on themselves. It is unlikely that orks will ever form a galaxy-spanning empire that lasts more than a few years

also keep in mind that its the imperium that keeps the tyranids in check. and pit orks and nids against each other, and i hope you agree tyranids will win out in the end

[Torquemada Coteaz]

that many orks, and without "human ingenuity" to take out ork hulks and stuff?
I'd have my money on the orks.

Once again, I'm going to have to mention mr. Brown, one of our resident local fluff-masters, who mentions that in some old fluff the imperial probes that are deepspace between our galaxy and others detect one thing: ork chatter, lots and lots of it, coming from all the galaxies they can pick up.
Also old ones made orks to never be wiped out, to that end Old Ones themselves couldn't get rid of orks once they took root. So even if nids does scour half the galaxy and CSM and stuff take the other half, orks will be somewhere roughing it out but never dying.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

everything from your previous post applies to nids aswell. there will be alot more tyranids without the imperium. and tyranids are organised, which orks, fora ll their strong points, really arent.

heres a question: is it so unreasonable to assume that orks were part of the tyranids previous galaxy of conquesnt, and the one befre etc?... and if they were, the tyranids still devoured the galaxy.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

well given the "ork galaxies" fluff, i;d say that at the very least the orks quickly picked up where the nids left off
which would mean basically an ENDLESS cylce of nids eating orks, orks infesting planets nids left behind, nids coming back to eat orks, and so on

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

tyranids dont leave planets behind - what they leave behind are barren rocks that are incapable of supporting life. i.e: no air, no soil, no ore, no water no atmosphere... no scrap!

[Torquemada Coteaz]

well I know limited amounts of fluff regarding both species.
like i said Adam has plotted out the future, and knows extensively in all fluff, so i'll ask him for the full explanation.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

interesting how tau never feature in these talks lol! poor newcommers. though, if given a chance, and if they get to grips with warp technology, they will be a big thing in the galaxy - cooperation is a big thing, and they are the only ones who really do it well (save tyranids and necrons i suppose, but theyre 'mindless' so they dont really count)

not that i seriously think tau will do anything

[Cagarner]

Well ive ben doing some fluff reasearch, and i remember finding this amazing story about how the tau actually conquer the galaxy. Click Here

Its a bit long though, i copied it to a word document and its 152 pages. It took me ages to read, and the crazy guy is still adding parts to it.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

very intersting stuff. been reading some of whats on the BL page.

alternate histories and imagined futures are always interesting to read. ive always liked the idea of roboute guilliman coming back from the dead. the legend of him healing while in the stasis chamber always freaked me out a bit, but i think its cool. dont know what hed be doing in a dradnought though...


actually thats a very pertinent question. why not inter him in a dread? marined that become dreads are dead, yet the tomb-machine makes them 'living so to speak' like Bjorn the Fell Handed. wow, thats in intersting idea - a primarch dread!

[Cagarner]

I bet they would make some kind or Úber dread for him. that would be so nice to convert....

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

think:

terminator = marneus calgar
dread = roboute gulliman!

nice. but is it feasable? i mean hes been dead for a wile now (i wont embarasse myself with a guess when)

[Icarus Athrasuriel]

Nah, Marine's in dreads were never dead, per se, they were on the verge of it when they were connected to the life support machine in the Dread, at which point you can consider all but their mind to be 'dead' effectively.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

gah. pity... though it saves the worry of asking all those 'what ifs'

[Cagarner]

I think roboute gulliman has been in the stasis fieild on macarage for about 8,000 years since he was mortally wounded by Fulgrim in M32.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Torquemada Coteaz

Once again, I'm going to have to mention mr. Brown, one of our resident local fluff-masters, who mentions that in some old fluff the imperial probes that are deepspace between our galaxy and others detect one thing: ork chatter, lots and lots of it, coming from all the galaxies they can pick up.

Heh, that's old fluff indeed but can't be taken seriously because the Old Ones weren't extra-galactic and couldn't travel between galaxies either so how would their creations reside in other galaxies that their creators couldn't get to?

I agree that Orks will ultimately win, prolonged combat not only makes Orks shed spores quicker and grow larger but makes the shed spores mature much more quickly. Tyranids might have large numbers but they ultimately need to consume biomass to make more Tyranids (i.e. they need to kill all the Orks first) whereas Orks just continually shed spores...alive or dead.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

they dont need to kill all the orks at once! as long as they kill orks (and im sure theres no problem there!) they can keep on making more. and the tyranids wont fight amongst themselves. the orks will

[Cagarner]

The tyranids wont haev to kill all the orks. what ever they kill they consume, adding more organic matter for the hive ships to produce more creatures. Also if the orks are dead, they will be consumed, and hense, wont be able to release any spores. The rippers would have them before they could release the spores. Even if they did release spores, the spores would be consumed. The more orks that are produced, and then killed, the more bio mass that the tyranids gain, enableing the creation of yet more tyranids. Also, lets not forget that over time, tyranids evolve to counter any threats, and eventually the tyranids would be better ork killers and gain the upper hand.

And because the orks cant really consume biomass at the same rate for growth, it is basically a one way system, enabling the tyranids to grow in number until there is no biomass left.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

Cagarner: webasically said the same thing at the same time! kep in mind that the orks wont be idle during all of this

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Digestion pools and Spore Chimneys only form when large areas of the planet or all of it has been conquered.

More combat means bigger Orks from the get go (be they from recently shed spores or current boyz growing bigger), even the Tyranids can't win in a war of attrition with Orks.