Pre heresy, What was the Imperium really like?

[Steellegioncpt]

OK I know a good amount of pre heresy fluff that GW put out. I just want to get it all, and Im sure you guys are the place to go. Anyways, Correct me when Im wrong. There were no melta guns, or las cannons. There were "anti grav" tanks and landspeeders. I believe the assault cannon didnt exsist in the form it does now. THere was a time when space marine commanders commanded the imperial guard (though it was changed cause humans counldnt meet the physical demand from the super humand commanders). SPace marines also had super heavy tanks. The use of mutants and genetic defomation within the guardsmen exsisted. Im sure Im missing a lot so please fill me in.

[commissarwhiffy]

If you read the Horus Heresy series it gives you a load of info. Space marines had tanks, but dont think they were super heavies, think thousands of SMs on battlefield, not a couple of hundred, I've heard that there were no assault cannons somewhere too, lascannons existed, just not the Predator annihilator (created by the Space Wolves later on). I think dreadnoughts were around too.
Iniatilly there was no army of humans, just SMs, but as the crusade got bigger, they began building up the beginnings of the IG, under the command of Ig generals, under the overall command of whichever Primarch was in charge of the expedition. So kinda under SM control. Plasma wpns were more prolific, everyone had Landraiders, even IG! But as Terra was attacked He recalled them for SM use and the order was never rescinded when he went to the throne.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by commissarwhiffy

If you read the Horus Heresy series it gives you a load of info.

Most of it completely incorrect.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

Originally Posted by Inquisitor Ralei

Most of it completely incorrect.

quite.
though i believe automatons did exist as well...
and of course there were loads of tech we dont have now like photon thrusters and STCs

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

well it may be incorrect though GW background has a habit of changing, so, like it not, thats the way it is now.

there was no astronomicon, though im still unsure how that affected things. Marines were in legions, not chapters, 10 times the size they are now.

the Ig had beastmen in it, as well as bikes, jetbikes, landspeeders. they were often under the command of marines

no inquisition

no ecclesiarchy

[Torquemada Coteaz]

by 10 times i think you mean anywhere from 25 to 50 times.
I think ultramarines cashed in at around 35k marines at some point? or was it 350k...

[Killermoose]

35k sounds closer to the truth, to be honest. 35,000 seems like enough Smurfs to be rampaging round the galaxy. 350,000 would just be a nightmare.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

yes quite.
well the point stands that marines had anywhere between 25 to 50k at any given point

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

that was ultramarines, whose legion was the largest by far (they had pretty much the whole easytern fringe to themselves in those days - no tyranids and tau to fight!)

[Torquemada Coteaz]

i'm pretty sure also that back then plasma didn't overheat.
autocannons were "new" at time of heresy
there were TONS more imperator titans, better lance systems and plasma drives.
the whole shibang

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

wtf? plasma was so unreliable back then it was only ever mounted on dreads!

Edit and the reaper autocannon was the precursor of the Assault Cannon

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by DeAd_cOmMaNdO

well it may be incorrect though GW background has a habit of changing, so, like it not, thats the way it is now.

Not quite, considering the HH Novels and Artbooks portray a vastly different picture to the Great Crusade compared with what is written in Index Astartes.

Originally Posted by DeAd_cOmMaNdO

no inquisition

Well, there was technically the precursor of the Inquisition in the form of Witchhunters, such as those who gave evidence at the Council of Nikea.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

yeah though the ordos as we know them now were not around back then.. i think

[Cagarner]

From what i know, the Adeptus Mechanicus have not changed since the age of strife. Though, as ststed earlier, there were many more titans around.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

thats a good point actually. funny how everything else changed and yet the AdMech remains largely the same...


i smell necron funny business

[Cagarner]

oo, thats some good fluff, that the adeptus mechanicus are actually the attempt of the void dragon to create his own army and once again rulle the galaxy.

[Inquisitor Ralei]

Originally Posted by Killermoose

35k sounds closer to the truth, to be honest. 35,000 seems like enough Smurfs to be rampaging round the galaxy. 350,000 would just be a nightmare.

Again, this confusion is thanks to those poor novels etc.
During the Great Crusade the legion with the most Marines was the Emperors Children, which, if Index Astartes is to be read properly had over 30,000Marines in 30 Companies, each led by a Lord Commander.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

2nd edition fluff states it was ultramarines, which had an empire, and more marines than other legions. though i may be wrong

[Inquisitor Ralei]

The Ultramarines gave rise to more successor Chapters and held the Imperium together but it was the Emperors Children who had the most Marines thanks to the excellent knowledge their Apothecaries had.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i wont disagree with you, because im aure that somewhere it says that. i malso sure that somewher else it says that the smurfs had the biggest legion.

thats the problem with GW fluff. they contradict themselves all over the place, come u with new things (like sisters being the chamber militant of the ordo hereticus where they never were) and adding and taking things away, leading to awkward moments like this on forums that can easily lead to arguments...

and to be honest, i take the index astartes to be one of the most canonical things in current 40k, so if it says that about the emperors kiddies, that what i believe.

[Torquemada Coteaz]

no.
misconception or not smurfs are widely known as the "ubr big legion"
i'm pretty sure that 35k was the most. other legions had around a max of 25k, and some as low as 5k

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

another difference: no codex imperialis so imperial guard had ships and organisation was all weird

[Torquemada Coteaz]

which didn't matter.
because during the great crusade IG were even MORE of the "meatshield cannon fodder hold garrison" type. like aside from them being human lives, they really weren't cared for.
they basically followed in the wake (directly, not like today's "separate" followup) of the SM of the expedition

[Cagarner]

The Imperial navy did not exist, as each army type had their own ships. And obviously the council of High Lords of Terra did not exist.

[DeAd_cOmMaNdO]

i knew there was something big i was forgetting. the high lords of terra

[Cagarner]

were the enemies of the imperium effected much after the horus herecy? (APART FROM CHAOS!!)