A rant i made about local gamers.

[Elzanith]

Well i was wondering what you guys think of this rant i just put up on a local forum since im sick of seeing new players (besides my self) roasted by veterans on painting skills or tactics and where asking there opinion's on anything is like asking to be punched in the balls.

you know i have noticed something about the Vancouver's gaming community (for all games out there) that Rather ticks me off so i feel like ranting a bit. Why are there always people who consider them self's "Elite" better then the rest? there is really no need for any stuck up atitudes towards others, or any reason to act better then some one else just because your a better player or painter or deck\army designer. None of that gives a person the right to be rude and\or the cause to be so full of them selves that everything else is junk compared to what they and people that they consider "on there level" are capable of. For an example. Doc you are a great painter from what i have been told but that doesn't give you the right to tell people there stuff looks like crap, as i see it if you think something looks like crap, thats your opinion some one else might love how it looks "for example look at the world of art" ,but what im trying to get across is yes you have skills but that isent a reason to consider your self above anyone else. The Same go's for anyone who acts better then other due to some "skill" they have in a game Sure if your a great player thats awesome, you should try to help others other then insult them, after isent the whole point of gaming to have fun? and if you want a good community having a few people "Lord" over it with there friends is just pointless (one of the reasons i stopped playing swm's besides the fact all the army's where the same). I have contact people in other area's of the world to see what there gaming community are like and to be honest most of them are way more friendly then Vancouver's which is something i think the whole community needs to work on. Not just a few people BUT EVERYONE need to work on this, if you don't like something go ahead and say so just don't trash talk people. like lets say i hate an army i see and say "wow what where you thinking?" that isent to bad but its just your oppinion you should leave your self open to what ever the person says because there might be a reason for the army to be built in an odd way, or they could of just built it for max fun not caring if they win or not.

So in short what im trying to get at is

For are community to thrive more so then it is now we all need to stop judgeing others based on high standards, or in general stop being so cocky since lets say you have played for years well some one else just started. you might know more about the game then them but that doesn't mean your "Better then them" after all Its not if you win or lose it's how you play the game and how much fun you have doing it.

Well this is my rather long rant, sorry for using you as an example doc but its just the easiest way to get things across and it works well with my point.

[TerminatorinHell]

dude thats how i fell sometimes , but over the summer me and my friends are working on painting like 'eavy metal, we have some new tricks we could use. I'm always bashed at my GS work too T.T but everyone loves my conversions

[Warmaster Romulas]

nice rant Elz but here is my counter

you are relatively new to the game and from what you told us you were the cocky one at your shop
so i would expect the "vets" to treat you differently

but all in all most "vets" try to help the younger gamers with list, tactics, fields of fire, and even painting
i dont know how it is in your gaming community but ive lived all around the US and over seas and ive never been mistreated by gamers / staff yes but not gamers
when i was a newby back in the day it was more like an apprenticeship or padawan if you will
there were so many rule and things to learn you had to actually have a teacher
but with the simplified rules (in all games not just 40k) the role of teacher is really no longer needed so some of us vets are a little hurt by that
but we try to teach the "noobs" what we can
but sometimes the "noob" thinks he/she knows it all and all you can do is throw their attitude back at them
be kind to your vets we are not "elites" we are gamers just like you who have been robbed by GW (and other game producers) our right to take someone under our wing because they have dumbed down the rules so we try to help in otehr ways

thanks
Ray

[Elzanith]

ironically the staff taught me the ticks i need to win, the players tryed to cheat me (especially the tau players)

[Warmaster Romulas]

im a tau player
ive never had to cheat
winning isnt that important
playing a good game is
matter of fact that is the most important thing about the game in my oppinion

[TheKiller333]

I've ranted about this myself. Hence my personal title. I know exactly how you feel..

[Davidus]

there was one person a while back in the Leicester store who had such a foul attitude, he would always belittle peoples painting skills, which was really ironic as his painting was ... nothing on the par of the people he critiqued , and the few he thought to be of a "ok" standard in his eyes, he offered a laughable amount of money.

Personally, he came up to me, and offered me 1.50 for a fully painted and built shas 'o r'myr that had taken me the better part of 2 weeks to finish, and worked hard towards being displayed in the stores 'cool" cabinet , not intending to come across as a hypocrite with the above comment, but i really cant put my opinion into any kinder words about the person mentioned

p.s ... when I swiftly declined the offer, he said the model was really **** anyway :P

[Elzanith]

lol ya i know its annoying as all hell isent it? im not the type to post links normally...but look but here is the thread i was talking about the guys name is Doc mostly and his buddy's run the forum apparently.

Tyrants' Nids What do you guys think?(and 2 demons!)

[Spartan-11755]

ummm when asked to crit someone not everyone is soft and polite excpect harsher tones hell if they offer help take it. Trust me people can only grow and there own pace but they can be taught a few tricks

[Elzanith]

Originally Posted by Spartan-11755

ummm when asked to crit someone not everyone is soft and polite excpect harsher tones hell if they offer help take it. Trust me people can only grow and there own pace but they can be taught a few tricks

Not from this guy he is the reason we don't have local painting contests anymore he is to much of a jerk.

[TheKiller333]

Davidus.. I think I remember that guy. At least I remember someone mentioning him. Then again, my painting skills were dreadful anyway so..

[Elzanith]

Originally Posted by TheKiller333

Davidus.. I think I remember that guy. At least I remember someone mentioning him. Then again, my painting skills were dreadful anyway so..

o.o you live in canada?

[thebarnet]

no sorry he does not the killer333 and davidus are both from leicester like me and a few other people on this forum
one of the thing i do if a new IG player needs some more points or a bit of help i will lend them a tank or some stormies

[Rhaalidor]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but we were all newbies, at one time or another. Some of us have become good painters and players through years and years of practice. Some people don't have the tact to point out that you have made a mistake, in a friendly and helpful manner. Some people don't have the tact to try to help with you paint jobs. Some people just point and laugh. Know what i mean?
I have been playing this game since 1989. I have been painting figures for a lot longer than than. As far as gaming goes, I still lose all the time, because I can't control the dice. No one can. I probably paint better than a lot of people, because I have practice. Years, and years, and years of practice. I'm not an artist like some folks. I had to paint lots and lots of minis.

My point in my post is this: Dice rolls win games. Practice wins paint contests. You'll get better in both gaming and painting with practice. Then, one day, the guys laughing at you now will be admiring your Golden Demon. (That's the way we American's spell it)

[Elzanith]

golden? more like purply blue that people say isent a good khorne color but it looks bad ass for 40k. Soon im going to upload my first vampire count unit.

[juddski]

it's all a learning curve and your on with everybody else...just not in front

when i first started i thought i was pretty good
(family friends,woukld say "hey your pretty good")

so i figured i'd post them on portent,
in those days it was a voting scale in the galleries of 1 to 10 and i got quite a few 1's which brought home the reality that i wasn't as good as i thought but armed with this knowledge i was determined to try and get better. you learn by your mistakes not your sucesses as long as it's good critisims you'll only get better and if it's comments like "crap" ask why it's crap ?is it the lines? or is the paint too thick/thin if they can't give you any answers why then ignore it as sour grapes........hope this helps,,,,,,,
BTW if they really annoy you just imagine them naked and have a tiny pecker(it works for me whenever i've gotta go and see the boss)

[Elzanith]

Well to be honest im redoing this into less of a rant and more of an artical it will piss off the local hard core games but i really don't care. here is the new version that is still in the works.

You know, I have noticed something about Vancouver's gaming community (for all games out there) that rather ticks me off, so here is what i have noticed.

Why are there always people who consider themselves "Elite," better then the rest? There is really no need for any stuck up attitudes towards others, or any reason to act better then some one else just because your a better player or painter or deck\army designer. None of that gives a person the right to be rude and\or the cause to be so full of themselves that everything else is junk compared to what they and people that they consider "on their level" are capable of. For an example. If you are a great painter you should be helping others instead of trashing there work, it may not be up to your level but they gave it a shot at least be nice and help them improve in stead of completely trashing there work back to the stone age. After all beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not that of a few people. The Same goes for anyone who acts better then another due to the "skill" they have in a game affter all, No matter how long you've been playing or how many wins you have, it's no excuse to bare down on people who are new or not hard-core gamers. If you want more competition then you must nurture the "younger generation", as irritating as it can be, they have the potential to provide a good game in the future. We were all newbies once in our lives, every new game we try makes us one. As for dissing paint jobs, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. People are touchy, if they're not asking for criticism don't give it, it doesn't matter if it's constructive or not, just don't, you're asking for trouble. And always do your best to give constructive criticism and be as helpful as possible. This is the internet, you get to proofread everything you post online, there is no excuse to hit that button if what you're posting has anything that's hurtful or mean. And one more thing, if winning is all you care about, then you need to consider playing actual competitive sports instead, makes you look less like an asshat
I have contacted people in other areas of the world to see what their gaming communities are like and to be honest most of them are way more friendly then Vancouvers, which is something I think the whole community needs to work on. Not just a few people BUT EVERYONE needs to work on this, if you don't like something go ahead and say so just don't trash talk people. But it's just your opinion and you should leave yourself open to whatever the person says because there might be a reason for the army to be built in an odd way, or they could of just built it for max fun not caring if they win or not. [Not that there's anything bad with winning. Gaming is all about having fun.

So in short what I'm trying to get at is this:

For our community to thrive more so than it is now, we all need to stop judging others based on our own high standards, or in general stop being so cocky since... let's say you have played for years well someone else just started. you might know more about the game then them but that doesn't mean your "Better then them" after all Its not if you win or lose it's how you play the game and how much fun you have doing it.

[vinny]

Hi all,
I have played gaming for some 30 years being a old bugger. In this time I have taught, instructed, guided what ever words you need to use to improve the play of gamers both new and OLd. I have found that if the Vet, elite or just better player wishes to play a better game in the future to tax his her playing then the trainee needs to be taught well. The game which ever you play needs players to enjoy the game and develop. They say that you only improve by playing better players and if the teachers are narrow minded and do not give the required learning curve to the trainee then they are not only doing the game a dis-service but also themselves. Just remember the Vet/Elite/good player may not be good at teaching it can be dificult for some to impart information for others to understand. Please if you dont understand something as a new player ASK questions do not do the nodding dog routine and say yes to all the info.

[experiment 626]

here's the thing Elzanith; i personally Doc, having met him back in 99 on the tournament circut. he's been around since they begining quite litterally!
he's also a brit from about as far south as you can get without ending up in the channel itself! alot of his hummor doesn't go over well here because few people really get it... (that and he's got a rather twisted sense of hummor such as inventing the 'stitch kabertoss' at the '04 'couver GT!)
one thing i've found having known and become friends with more than a few brits, they don't 'sugercoat' much. they like to speak their mind! you just have to accept that different attitude. try asking him about why/how you can improve! i know from experience that it's immensely fustrating having to play against the same poeple who don't care much about their army and how it looks and/or the backstory of 40k. that kind of attitude smacks of 'this is just a fad and i don't care', which is about the worst impression you can give to any oldgit! (honestly, there's a number of younger players at our store i outright refse to play against because of this - and i'm staff!)

get to know doc before you judge him honestly. this was the great thing about the old tournaments; the pub time! you got to sit down and just hang out. someone who you thought was a real jerk turned out to be once of the nicest guys/girls...
sure doc may seem full of himself to you because you;
a) don't know him
b) are alot newer to the hobby than he is
c) doc is erm, 'doc'. we can't really explain him, but really, give him a chance!
try striking up some general conversation with him, then try and stear the topic to maybe ask 'how can i improve my painting'...

also, try and look at the situation from the oldgit's point of view; if say you've played them about a dozen times and they've won handily & easily each and every time, yes they're going to start getting fustrated too! it's no fun for us if the same opponent makes the same mistakes each and every time. (and doc will point out to you those mistakes - trust me!) also, oldgits like doc HATE! people who throw the background out the window becaue they don't care and/or are simply ignorant of it... for example, he'll likely tear you a new one if you bring say a chaos army lead by 2 lashing princes that's also chalk-full of 'zerkers! (i mean come one, since when do hardcore, blood-mad nutters let some foppish milksop slaanesh daemon tell them what to do?!?) being an oldergit myself, i'll tell you off too for sure! the background is what makes 40k so great, and i expect new players to read up on it and respect it!
as for the painting thing, well, keep in mind doc's won a fare few golden daemons. if there actually were enough of that skill out in vancouver, he'd likely head-up 'team vancouver' for games day. but reality sucks and it's just not possible for enough of those highly skilled guys to make it across the country to games day each year! (so toronto & montreal have their way.) and as annoying as it may seem to see the same person always win every painting competition, imgaine how disheartening it must be for that painter to seemingly never be challenged in any way unless they spend about $500 on a plane ticket! (again, i've been in that situation at my local store - over 8 months i won every contest and it got to the point i only entered because others expected it of me!) it's not fun... everyone wants to have to push their skills to their limits and then some!

so honestly, as much a doc and some of the other real hardcore vets may seem to be the problem, it's really everyone's fault...
the vets sure sometimes need a bit of a swift kick to come down off their 'high horses'. however, the younger/newer gamers need to show their 'elders' so to speak that they're serious and want to improve, learn & grow in all aspects of this hobby!
there's nothing more hatefull out there than the spoiled pup who buys up everything and treats their stuff like **** because they don't give a crap. (yes, i've seen a 12-year old with forgeworld stuff they've cobbled & badly painted - i cry every time i see such abuses.)

cheers!

[masterofweirdness]

Ahh yes... the horrid dry humor of the Brits...

But, looking at the models on that thread, most of them seemed (SEEMED) good... considering you've been only painting for a month, and they look better than my stuff at that stage. But then again, I was lazy and didn't try that hard and had bad brushes... I do think Doc could have said it... better... but I hope you realize he had a point, he just didn't say in a nice way.

Like stitch said, both sides are at fault some times. To the vets, 40k can be something that well... was their one favorite thing to do that they did with a passion as a kid... saving up every single penny they had until they could buy another box of space marines (or whatever)... and I'll admit, when a bunch of 12 year olds treat the same hobby as they supposedly do at their age, an age where Dead Commando and Hairy were worshipping it as a god (okay... may be slightly off there... but something like that... no?) I think I can see how people get angry or annoyed... I would.

And... different places have different people and attitudes. Some stores may be horrid... maybe you need to consider going somewhere else or just ignoring the idiots. I bet that in every store that sucks, there are at least two or three decent people who you can play with and will help you, just get to know those few good people and game with them at home or at the store... refusing to play with other people. Complain to the staff and manager, if they care, they will change things.

Also... converting friends to the game can be a good thing. I've done it with two of mine... and we should be enjoying ourselves a lot this summer.

[Elzanith]

Few of my friends are starting they just CANT pick a race for some reason or simply don't feel like spending any money and expect me to buy them things (ya im broke enough on my own thank you very much). As for Veteran's no mater how long you have played you have no right to be an over all jerk wad to people, But then again maybe im to nice.