Raven Guard, what are they about?

[Wakim]

I hear they`re set on guerrilla warfare since they were almost destroyed back in the days of the Horus Heresy... And they rely on ASM and they drop-pod in their tac squads - which sounds pretty good since other chapters/armies have some perks for the certain unit they 'rely' on... but this think i heard something about them using the old standard power armour, that doesn`t sound to good.

So, where do they stand? All fuss and no game? Or are they really good, in the right circumstances?

[Inquisitor Rosenadel]

Yeah they were in the Drop Pod Massacre. Corax had to do some nasty stuff to keep the legion going after the Heresy... his valediction was (of course), "Nevermore..."

Raven Guard have Blessed Be the Warriors, so they can get elite assault squads, and up to 6 squads total. I don't know what else they have, but they are basically swift as the wind.

The old armour thing is just a bit of fluff. Basically, there are old suits of armour that are passed on to captains and Chapter Masters of the Raven Guard. It's an honor to wear a suit worn by a legendary warrior of olde. Doesn't effect gameplay, and that's just to explain the "coincidental" use of so many beak-heads, thus giving them a bird-like helmet. The most current version, Mk.VII has the open air filter, while the older Mk VI armour has the beak-nose, so saying commanders wear older armour is an excuse to add a little bird theme.

[Wakim]

Nice, thanks!

But TT wise... could they hold their own vs.. Blood Angles, or Space Mutts? Or any other Meelee-ish army for that matter?

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by wakim

Nice, thanks!

But TT wise... could they hold their own vs.. Blood Angles, or Space Mutts? Or any other Meelee-ish army for that matter?

well here most people would say a good commander would make the biggest difference.

i think the raven guard are okay. haha well i started getting models seriously after i decided on a raven guard army. i loved the shrike model [i bought one !] and i thought the full black armor with zillions of jumping marines and land speeders would be awesome...

but then i realized that assault marines die as easily as normal ones, and cost 7 more points [and lots more money...]...and i got less interested.

i'm not sure about holding their own against other assaulty armies...i feel like raven guard are a little closer to balanced in terms of shootiness vs assaultyness, but that's just me...haha

:]
raven guard FTW!
-ant

A raven guard army, if played right, can hold it's own against the Pups or the BA. But the key for them is balance, rather than assault. Don't exclude the tacs, and load totally on assault marines. Keep it balanced.

[rintinglen]

A hearty hear, Hear! to the former.
I have played a raven guard-like army, and while it can hold it's own against most other melee armies, it really suffers iif you don't have some support stuff. Assault squads are expensive, pointswise. A 10 man squad with an attached Chaplain can eat up up well over 400 points, which means you can easily find yourself badly outnumbered, even by other space marine armies. Alll your opponent has to do is kill about 22 models and you find yourself with few or no scoring units left. And unlike their Chaos counterparts, the Raven guard can't get meltaguns, which means enemy armour can be troublesome. Tyranids are tough to deal with, and I got my clock cleaned by a World Eaters army.
Tau have trouble with them, though. A friend who plays a bunch of suits found that his usual jump-out-and-shoot-then-hide tactics didn't work so swell when my guys were able to run him down. That 12 inch move gets you across the board in a hurry and plasma pistols ignore armour saves. I have also had good luck against terminators. If you have a chaplain and a veteran Sgt with a power fist or power weapon, and 9 regular assault marines, you can usually massacre a a five man terminator squad and take few if any casulties in return. (a couple of plasma pistol shots, 8 or 9 bolt pistol shots followed by 5 high I power weapon attacks and 27 regular attacks with rerolls on the misses, and 3 power fist attacks to clean up with
usually will do the trick.)
Where you run into trouble is when you have to fight a big gribbly with high toughness, or when the enemy has lots of shooty units. IG can be tough when spread so that you can't keep your guys hidden in assaults. They may have 10 or 12 squads to your 4 or 5, and after you kill one of their 80 point squads, their comrades dump a bunch of shots into your squad, usually rapidfiring and always with a bout load of heavy weapons.

[Wakim]

Ahaa...

Scratch that idea.

As a final note, is the Chaos ASM any better than the regular ASM?

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by wakim

Ahaa...

Scratch that idea.

As a final note, is the Chaos ASM any better than the regular ASM?

well, it's also quite common (background-wise) to see a large number of scouts aiding the main assault by sabotaging rear positions in the enemy line...
an infiltrating squad or two of scouts can give your opponent something to occupy their minds while your main force makes the forward dash!

anyways, chaos raptors are overall, quite over priced for what they do sadly... they do get the hit-and-run USR and upto 3 special weapon upgrades, but their basic cost is sky high!
add on to this a mark of chaos (*must* be undivided only!) and an aspiring champ upgrade and by the time you've got a decent sized squad that can still be effective after losing a couple bodies, you've spent the best part of 250+pts easily!
for roughly the same, (if not fewer pts,) you could get say a unit of khorne

berserkers led by a champ with a talisman of burning blood and chainaxes for the entire unit! a much, much better assault unit overall!
or for a few more pts over the raptors, you can get flying possessed who are again much better close combat troops and more resiliant thanks to their daemonic gifts...

basically, i would avoid taking raptors unless you simply want to infiltrate 3 meltaguns near some armour... however, you'll need to destroy either something big like a land raider or fully kitted out russ, or else destroy multiple targets to earn your pts back.

cheers!

[Cagarner]

If you really want an assaulty army, I know the perfect one; Tyranids

So many units to choose from that caould all potentially move 12". Lots of Infiltrating units, and cant forget that lovely carnifex!!!

Join the Hive Mind my friend.....

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by Cagarner

If you really want an assaulty army, I know the perfect one; Tyranids

So many units to choose from that caould all potentially move 12". Lots of Infiltrating units, and cant forget that lovely carnifex!!!

Join the Hive Mind my friend.....

I second the motion.

And on topic, raven guard are normal marines that are "supposed" to take the following traits: Blessed be the Warriors, no mercy, no repsite. Combined with the disadvantage of Flesh over Steel. (you don't have to do this btw, you can just paint your marines Raven Guard colors, and if anyone complains... change the chapters name).

[Dan296]

with space marines, if you really want a good assault force, get blood angels.
you could play raven guard like a normal space marine force, though assault oriented, and take shrike and shrikes wing. shrikes wing is awsome.
the best assault armies though are tyranids, world eater CSM, blood angels (to an extent) and orks. with the horde armies, tyranids are good if you like the big gribblies, but orks are good if you like qwerky, fun armies, with alot of vehicles.

An also over looked army in CSM that is great at assault (better at it than WE because they can handle shooting and such as well) is Emperors Children. Who dosen't love warp screams, combat drugs, and all the allures and auras of Slaanesh backed up by a wall of sonic death?

Please note: Slight biase is contained in above post.

[Wakim]

@ Lord Commander Eru - I`ll take it you you have a thing for Emperors Children. maybe something to do with the Slaaneshi way of life?

[Dan296]

erus doesnt have a thing for slaanesh...not at all......
but thats true. slaanesh is pretty good in assaults, but people look at khorne more because he is generally the assault guy. and cause he can pwn slaanesh any day of the week.

Please note: Slight biase is contained in above post.

[Killermoose]

Quite frankly, you are all foul worshippers of Chaos, and deserve an eternity of suffering.

On an unrelated note, collect Eldar! They're so arrogant they've got to be right! And don't forget, when Y'nnead wakes up he's gonna open a can of Whoopass on all the Chaos gods!

Please note: Heavy biase is contained in above post

Originally Posted by wakim

@ Lord Commander Eru - I`ll take it you you have a thing for Emperors Children. maybe something to do with the Slaaneshi way of life?

No... Not at all.. Not at all.

I will say... Khorne is better shock assaulting. But in protacted out and out waras of atrition, Slaanesh will win 90% of the time. Now, you want to see fun... Pair the two together! It's just vicious! An udivided army utilising keyt elements of both these lists would be an assault army i'd be very entrigued to fight. (Please Note: I am a sadist, and like playing even when I loose. Repeatedly. Just so long as I understand why.)

[Wakim]

Can Demonettes work their magic on Berserkers? Or any other Chaos guy?

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by wakim

Can Demonettes work their magic on Berserkers? Or any other Chaos guy?

well, they'll work their 'magic' on your young 16-year old opponent most of the time!

basically, only horrors and flamers have actual 'magic', all other daemons in 40k get 'gifts' instead...
daemonettes are quite tasty though and point for point, i find them to be better overall than bloodletters who really only excel againt other marines... (as against non-meq opponents, S5 power weapons are simply expensive over-kill!)

the main differense between khorne and slaanesh is that khorne is geared very heavily towards an anti-meq style of combat with their chainaxes, while emp's children assault units are more general and can tackle any opponent reasonably well...

cheers!

[r4wr89]

Originally Posted by Dan296

you could play raven guard like a normal space marine force, though assault oriented, and take shrike and shrikes wing. shrikes wing is awesome.

lol shrike's wing is also ridiculously overpriced...haha. cool model though, i bought one before it became SEVENTEEN USD sheeeesh. but then i cut his lightning claws off to give my commander anyways, lol :]
-ant