Khorne dilema

[ironside407]

Hi i just joined though i have read the threads on this forum for a while i never botherd to join. I have a dilema im in the process of making a Khorne army and im not sure what to do i have my main idea in my head but i dont want my army to be vulnerable to shooty and i dont know how to counteract this. i was thinking either a defiler or some obliterators but i figured i would ask the pro's for advice before i go throwing my money around.......Thankyou for your help ahead of time (just in case i forget i do it all the time ^_^)

[Ikarus]

Hey - Welcome to the site!

Would you have an example or list of what you have at the moment?

Obliterator, or Defiler are both GOOD options.. it comes down to - what do you need. Only way to help, is to understand what situation you are in.

[hairyyahoo]

there's a coulpe of ways to avoid getting shot too much, each has it's benefits and drawbacks.

-take a lot of units. this forced the enemy to dilute their firing a bit meaning the they may not do enough damage to any one squad to reduce it's effectiveness in cc. this ain't easily done for marines and is een harder for chaos as they're more expensive.

-give 'em something else to think about. landing a bunch of deepstrikers in the mist of the enemy army is usually not a good odea but the one benefit it does have is that the enemy will almost always reaim most of their guns at the new threat, meaning less shots on your troops as they slog accross the table.

-get your troops onto combat quicker. adding some rhinos to your army will make your squads faster and provind some mobile cover, but will cost quite a bit, meaning you won't have as many troops.

-use a meat shield. put something cheap and expendable in front of your troops. hopefully the expendable stuff will get shot first. the only unit available to chaos for this id daemons and since they're only 2 pts cheaper than a marine and need to be summoned they don't really work too well for this.

-get something into combat with the shooty units. if a uit is in cc then it can't shoot. a cheap unit of bikes 3 can launch an assult on turn 2 and probably tie up a shooty unit for at least a turn or 2. their aim isn't to kill lots of enemy troops but to stop them from firing so that the rest of your army can get to grips with them. if you add in an icon and a unit of daemons then you can silence the guns of another unit too

there's probably a few other way to survive the shooting phase but these are the ones that i could think of off the top of my head

[Dragoon King]

I prefer LR to Defilers, especially on smaller tables. Listen to Hairy, he knows what he's talking about. Also, you might wanna wait to get the new plastic Daemons.

[ironside407]

i was going to wait on deamons cause of the new codex but at the moment i only have one squad of khorne bezerkers and a demon prince thats under conversion but in the next week or soo im buying the battle force but after that im a little fuzzy there are a lot of options and im not so certain what would suite my army best but im going to look at your list closely and see if anything in there suites my style of play ^_^ thankyou

[Ides]

Berserkers are pretty kick ass in close combat, but if you wanted to go all out khorne themed, go for regular CSM and chosen with an icon of khorne, and a jump-pack lord with twin lCs and mark of khorne.

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

Khorne has a good number of upgrades IIRC that allow you to make it into combat without too many losses. Khorne demons get both armor saves AND invul saves (their bronze is as effective as power armor, somehow). Also, Berserkers can be taken in squads as large as 20, I think. You know what that means? Add their blood rage thing where they charge forward an extra d6" to the fact that they can swarm on the enemy (16 berserkers takes a while to thin). Those chain-axes also deal a heavy blow!

If you need ranged weapons to pin them, those Defilers do a neat trick of barraging enemy squads with a str8 ordnance shot, Vindicators are shorter range, direct fire only, but they hit with str 10 ap2. Predators won't pin the enemy, but they and havoc squads can severely thin the enemy.

Once you have a berserker squad locked in close combat, you don't need to worry about shooting. Because unless it's artillery, they can't target your squad...

[ironside407]

thanks for your guys advice i picked up a couple bikers cause i need some "$cheap$" distractions and i figured having a squad of bikers coming at you head first is semi distracting and personally later on when i get some better stuff i think they will still be an effective part of my army

[Lord Commander Erus]

Originally Posted by Draconis Argentus Falzone

Khorne has a good number of upgrades IIRC that allow you to make it into combat without too many losses. Khorne demons get both armor saves AND invul saves (their bronze is as effective as power armor, somehow). Also, Berserkers can be taken in squads as large as 20, I think. You know what that means? Add their blood rage thing where they charge forward an extra d6" to the fact that they can swarm on the enemy (16 berserkers takes a while to thin). Those chain-axes also deal a heavy blow!

If you need ranged weapons to pin them, those Defilers do a neat trick of barraging enemy squads with a str8 ordnance shot, Vindicators are shorter range, direct fire only, but they hit with str 10 ap2. Predators won't pin the enemy, but they and havoc squads can severely thin the enemy.

Once you have a berserker squad locked in close combat, you don't need to worry about shooting. Because unless it's artillery, they can't target your squad...

This is all under the old codex though.. None of this (saves for daemons, chian axes, blood rade) are viable under the new Codex.

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Lord Commander Erus

This is all under the old codex though.. None of this (saves for daemons, chian axes, blood rade) are viable under the new Codex.

Hey LC, you think cult termies will make a comeback with the Legion codices? Oh, by the way, I'll be starting those Slaansh Raptors soon...

[Draconis Argentus Falzone]

Okay, Erus. You lost me. Instead of saying what they kept, tell me what they ditched, please.

[Biadetic]

daemons dont have their own fancy moves now, theyre all the exact same now. as are gerater daemons. so theres no rules for feilding a bloodthirster or changer etc etc... all greater daemons are the same now.
also, khorne berserkers now no longer have their fancy chainaxe ability. which means they atatck as normal and have no longer got the rule "reduce any armour save better than 4+ to 4+ "

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

[experiment 626]

Originally Posted by Draconis Argentus Falzone

Okay, Erus. You lost me. Instead of saying what they kept, tell me what they ditched, please.

in other words, all the dumb stuff that either caused endless moans due to being illegal or simply outright stupid got the rightly deserved boot!

instead, you get things you had waaaaaay back in 1st & 2nd edition like havoc squads loaded with flamers/meltas, khornate raptors and such.
also, no more 'ancient emnities' and very selective 'legion specific' rules sets means you have some choice beyond 4 units for your army!

cheers!

[masterofweirdness]

Originally Posted by experiment 626

in other words, all the dumb stuff that either caused endless moans due to being illegal or simply outright stupid got the rightly deserved boot!

instead, you get things you had waaaaaay back in 1st & 2nd edition like havoc squads loaded with flamers/meltas, khornate raptors and such.
also, no more 'ancient emnities' and very selective 'legion specific' rules sets means you have some choice beyond 4 units for your army!

cheers!

And... if you are still complaining about how your favorite legion got really kicked... we still hope that Codex: daemons will have more info on said legions.

But yes, generally speaking, the new Codex is much better than the old. There are some legitimate complaints... but they should be dealt with in the new codex daemons that should be coming out soon (April? May?).

[experiment 626]

codex: daemons is about daemons only... no legion rules - just bad-ass daemons! so rules for all the cult daemons and perhaps some added bitz.

still, it's a new book for both 40k and fantasy which is neat!

cheers!

[Heroka Vendile]

so is it a combined book like rumours suggested it might be?

[Dravenguild]

I don't understand why they got rid of daemonic gifts for chaos marines when the new aspiring champion sprue comes with wierd mutations and such.

It doesn't make any sense at all.

Why wouldn't a nurgle lord be gifted with more wounds or nurglings to cavort in his body? or a plague to follow his wake?

Daemonic strength, fire, speed, wings, armor, essence and such are all reserved for actual daemons now!

Due to daemons craptacularness, would you honestly want to field an army of them or some kickass chaos marines?

Stupid daemon codex, stupid imbalanced new chaos dex.

I hates GW!

I can understand why they nerfed the dex, but seriously they needed to keep some things intact!

-Specific legion rules: all they had to due was nerf it properly but be allowed to retain their individuality from common "warbands".

- Daemonic gifts from patrons! I mean they are pleasing their gods after all!

- obliterators keep their increased strength and toughness for the tradeoff of not being able to use anything other than energy weapons now.

- POSSESSED!!! need i say more?

- Raptors hit and run! Now only SoB have it. (like they need it, exorcist anyone?)

- nurglings!

-access to a PROPER ARMORY! why can't a slaanesh champion take a plasma pistol?

Things like this, to keep the "balance" of the game. they could easily be revised to fit in. like heavy close combat weapons for example, instead of having the choppa rule why not be it confers a -1 armor modifier instead?

2+ becomes 3+, 3+ becomes 4+ and 6+ becomes -.

easily remedied, maybe not make them so widely used to orks and they can still be included!

[Dan296]

ok, we closed the new codex threads >.<
lets not re-open them.

from a personal standpoint, though, here's MY solution in a 3k list to lessening casualties. and this is khorne VS. tau, so i have ALOT of shooting comin against me.

-mass bezerkers. the more you take, the more you can afford to lose
-deamons. very cheap, surprise unit, thats also quite good in combat, even with the bloodthirster nerf!
-throw something worth shooting at. AKA: something BIG that they cant ignore, that can take the shots. this would be a land raider, or BRASS SCORPION!!!!
-rhinos rhinos rhinos. i have three of my 6 bezerker squads in rhinos, and i rush one flank. they have to divert some energy over there and then the knockout comes with the footsloggers, deamon prince, dreadnaught, and chosen in land raider.

-stop them from moving: when you are faster then them, they cant get to problem areas quickly. this is done by taking down transports with a predetor annihilator or land raider (or havoks...) and pressuring them even more.

[masterofweirdness]

Dravenguild... just as a reminder... if you have something new to add... edit your posts...

Second off... I don't know why they didn't do all of that... perhaps they were honestly to lazy... and I do agree that some of their ideas are silly (random tables for possesed... oh well... guess I won't be buying those models)...

But, in the long run, after most players have sat down and thought out the rules that have been given, they are happy. The only people that really lost out were the legion specific players. But even then, rumors of codices (or mini codices... or a combined codice) for all the legions are around...

And as for the armory thing... its just something that GW is doing. Like it or not. It also does help with the min/maxing... just a question... but why would you want your champion to have plasma pistols... they're not that good... and expesnive to boot...

[Dan296]

Originally Posted by Dravenguild

- POSSESSED!!! need i say more?
*vomits from the terribleness of possesed*

- Raptors hit and run! Now only SoB have it. (like they need it, exorcist anyone?)
well you can take SoB as allies, but not heavy support stuff. plus, not everyone likes exorcists (LIKE ME)
plus, its not just them. i know eldar have it (Baharroth, shining spears)
- nurglings!
KHORNE THREAD
-access to a PROPER ARMORY! why can't a slaanesh champion take a plasma pistol?
because it will KILL YOU

Things like this, to keep the "balance" of the game. they could easily be revised to fit in. like heavy close combat weapons for example, instead of having the choppa rule why not be it confers a -1 armor modifier instead?
because it just makes no sense. why is the orks shard of metal more adept at hacking through armour then a chainsaw? and why does that chainsaw have more penetration power just cause its in 'axe form?' it doesnt make sense, they got rid of it. but now you get free furious charge!

the codex threads are dead, no necromancy! this isnt vampire counts now...

but with the armour save thing, they have that in fantasy....and its confusing as hell!!!

[Dragoon King]

This might help ya Chosen out, Ironside:
Berzerker Plus — 280 pts.9 Chosen x 18 pts.162 pts.1 Aspiring Champion x 28 pts.28 pts.1 Meltagun x 10 pts.10 pts.2 Lightning Claw Pairs x 20 pts.40 pts.1 Power Weapon x 15 pts.15 pts.1 Power Fist x 25 pts.25 pts.This group of psychos focuses exclusively on close combat. Lots of painful and varied attacks are possible. An Aspiring Champion only sweetens the deal. To further increase their devastation potential, the Khorne Icon adds some (a lot of) extra Attacks as well as the always-useful Daemon backup when necessary. If you manage to Infiltrate these guys, you've the potential to eliminate an enemy character or squad of your choice quite early in the game.

[Vishnoff]

With the new dex you can field Khrone raptors (with no 0-1 limit!) Give the raptor some meltas and the icon of Khorne, add a champion with lightning claws and you have an evil squad that is a force to be reckoned with. An 8 man squad with the icon, meltas and champ with claws comes in at about 250 points. Can we say turn 2 charge?. Instant death....

[Biadetic]

Hmmm, hows about we put a couple bunch, say maybe 2 squads of 5 khorne raptors and use them to deepstrike in behind the enemy if they have any big shooting problems?

Plus has anyone ever taken the bikes with khorne? How'd that fair out?

I love my khorne army, i need no tactics because i just charge forward wiht numerous zerkers, enough cant be cut down and i slog through the enemy lines :P

I recently (few months ago ) played against an Ork army, he fielded LOTS of shooty ness ! LOTS ! ha. anyways, one of my fav moments, my zerkers are exposed from wreckage, 20 orks standing right in front of me, all open fire! NOTHING does anything, i think like 5 hits but 0 wounds! this was awesome, the blood god was looking upon us...anyways, 20 orks then charge me ! Im thinking... this isnt good.... Combat result ended up me killing every single ork and taking like 2 casualties??

Hahah epic win