Question on Chaos Sorcerer.

[Dragoon King]

Right, I have a Sorcerer model I'm gonna use for my next battle, and I want to make sure of something. I'm gonna make it a HQ choice. It will have the Mark of Tzeentch and Doombolt. I'm not gonna use another Psychic power. So, having the MoT, can I use Doombolt in the Shooting Phase, and then the Force Weapon in CC in the same turn?

[Sir_Servo]

I believe that mark of Tzeentch only gives you a second power, unless I missed it in the book some where a model is only allowed to make one psychic test per turn. So you still have to choose whitch you are going to use.

My two cents,
Servo

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Sir_Servo

I believe that mark of Tzeentch only gives you a second power, unless I missed it in the book some where a model is only allowed to make one psychic test per turn. So you still have to choose whitch you are going to use.

My two cents,
Servo

Yeah, I can find nothing on it either. Still, at 140 pts, do you think it's a good option? I guess I was thinking of Ahriman.

[GriplionGremlin]

force weapon in the main rule book clarifies it can only be used if no powers were used by that model in that turn so if you use doom bolt then no force weapon. *exception is ahriman. his profile states he can still use force weapon because of his mastery.

[Dragoon King]

So what power would you guys suggest I give my Tzeentchian Sorcerer?

[Ravel Advice]

Firstly, chaos sorcerors with the mark of tzeentch can use two powers per turn (stated in the psychic powers section of the codex). Personally, I would go for Warptime to go with doombolt, as it will boost the effectiveness of doombolt, and allow you to do damage in combat even without using your force weapon.

[Sir_Servo]

Originally Posted by Ravel Advice

Firstly, chaos sorcerors with the mark of tzeentch can use two powers per turn Wholy crap I totally missed that! Thanks for the Info, now my list might change!(stated in the psychic powers section of the codex). Personally, I would go for Warptime to go with doombolt, as it will boost the effectiveness of doombolt, and allow you to do damage in combat even without using your force weapon.

Man sometimes I feel like a noob. I just have to remind myself that I haven't played regularly in about 2 years and that every one is entitled to make mistakes... even me.

Servo

[Dragoon King]

Hmmm. I don't really want two powers, because the Sorcerer will have wings and the MoT. I'm trying to keep him under 160 points, because he will be used mainly in small battles. Then again, I might forgo the wings, but I don't really want him hoofing it.

[word bearers 81007]

no lord or sorceror should hoof it unless there terminators and they should have an entourage with them

[Dragoon King]

Hmmm. Rhino or Land Raider transport? Really don't wanna pay the points for a LR. Is the Rhino survivable enough? I forget, can you shoot the turn you disembark from a Rhino? Would the Sorcerer be able to use ranged Psychic powers from the fire points?

[word bearers 81007]

the rhino is survivable if you pop smoke then disembark the nex turn. and yes you can shoot after dismebarking frim the vehicle as for psychic powers that you can also do.

[Sir_Servo]

I love either the wings or even a Daemonic Steed for your HQ. Depending on the Mark some of those steeds are pretty freakin sweet. As for two powers, sense you can use two per turn if you are marked by Tzeentch. I say why not. Maybe WarpTime and one of the shooty ones?

My two cents,
Servo

[Dragoon King]

Hmmm. I think the Rhino is best. The model is a metal one, so I don't really know if I could mount it on a Disc or not. It would be cool if I could. Here's a pic:

[Drax]

the rhino should be fine if you place it behind scenery for deployment, move it as far as possible and pop the smokes, then move again disembark and let rip with bolters.

with the mark of Tzeentch, as has been stated, you may take and use two powers per turn, the only exception to this is that you cannot use two shooting powers per turn, so warptime could be a useful second power.

as for the force weapon, that is where it gets tricky. their rules state that if you use a psychic power in your turn, you cannot use the force weapon in the combat phase. presumably when the rules were written for it, they were working on the basis that psykers were limited to one power anyway. however, the Tzeentch rules state that they may use two powers per turn, so until an faq is released, or unless there is something in the 5th ed wording, then it is unclear if the intention of the Tzeentch wording is intended to allow the force weapon to be used as well.

another problem with the Tzeentch wording is that it clearly states that a model my not use two powers that count as shooting, on the basis that the vast majority of models may only shoot once, Monstrous creatures (i.e. Daemon Princes) may shoot twice - so in this case, the Tzeentch wording denies them the bones that the monstrous creature wording grants them!

then of course there is the MoT on a turbo boosting bike arguement...

[GriplionGremlin]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Hmmm. Rhino or Land Raider transport? Really don't wanna pay the points for a LR. Is the Rhino survivable enough? I forget, can you shoot the turn you disembark from a Rhino? Would the Sorcerer be able to use ranged Psychic powers from the fire points?

hey buddy,

havent checked in lately but saw you still have some questions on this.
if it is your sorcerer hq then yes he may fire from the fire point as long as he could normally fire. so normal firing from vehicles rules apply.

**IF** you run a 1k sons squad with sorcerer in a rhino this is a bit different as the squad has the slow and purposeful rule as does the asp sorcerer (or what ever they are calling him now...). when with the squad and in a rhino he may fire from the port no matter how far the vehicle moves. as they always fire as if standing still no matter how far traveled


and as others have mentioned you may chose 2 powers with MOT (3 if you also take a familiar!!) and may use up to 2 per turn as long as they are not used in the same phase of your turn. and remember that Warp Time can be used in your opponents turn as well!!!!!!!!!! very handy!!

and i'm getting used to thinking more on doom bolt myself as it has finally been rewritten and is a viable power now with its ap3 str4 and a decent range on it.

good luck and how's your army looking? any games with it yet?


grip

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by GriplionGremlin

hey buddy,

havent checked in lately but saw you still have some questions on this.
if it is your sorcerer hq then yes he may fire from the fire point as long as he could normally fire. so normal firing from vehicles rules apply.

**IF** you run a 1k sons squad with sorcerer in a rhino this is a bit different as the squad has the slow and purposeful rule as does the asp sorcerer (or what ever they are calling him now...). when with the squad and in a rhino he may fire from the port no matter how far the vehicle moves. as they always fire as if standing still no matter how far traveled


and as others have mentioned you may chose 2 powers with MOT (3 if you also take a familiar!!) and may use up to 2 per turn as long as they are not used in the same phase of your turn. and remember that Warp Time can be used in your opponents turn as well!!!!!!!!!! very handy!!

and i'm getting used to thinking more on doom bolt myself as it has finally been rewritten and is a viable power now with its ap3 str4 and a decent range on it.

good luck and how's your army looking? any games with it yet?


grip

Oh, I forgot to mention, the Sorcerer is a HQ choice, no Rubrics with him. I'll think about the Warptime and another shooty, if I can keep it under 165 ish points. As for gaming, it's been a few weeks, but I was getting battles in regularly there for a while. Did well in all of them, facing my friend's SoB, Necrons and Dark Angels. Trying to get more people into the hobby. Now another question. Which Mark would be best, is Tzeentch really the best choice?

[Drax]

it depends on what you want to do - Tzeentch obviously allows another power and improves the invulnerable save

unless you are specifically wishing to use Lash, then Slaanesh isn't worth it on the sorcerer - his initiattive without MoS is either going to be good enough as it is, or unlikely to be good enough even with the mark - thats just my opinion however

as for nurgle - i'm not too keen for a sorcerer.

so really if you can live without the improved save and weren't wanting the extra power, then you might as well not bother with the MoT

[Dragoon King]

Originally Posted by Drax

it depends on what you want to do - Tzeentch obviously allows another power and improves the invulnerable save

unless you are specifically wishing to use Lash, then Slaanesh isn't worth it on the sorcerer - his initiattive without MoS is either going to be good enough as it is, or unlikely to be good enough even with the mark - thats just my opinion however

as for nurgle - i'm not too keen for a sorcerer.

so really if you can live without the improved save and weren't wanting the extra power, then you might as well not bother with the MoT

Good point. Off the top of my head, I don't remember how much the mark costs, but it's pretty expensive. I may forgo any marks at all, to keep him cheap.

[GriplionGremlin]

if you want a mark and like the benifits for slaneesh and still want 2 powers just give him a familiar to be able to take a 2nd power

so if you wanted:
MOS with doom bolt and warp time w/familiar
vs
MOT with doom bolt and warp time (no familiar)

you'd save 20pts by going with MOS and you'd be +1 initiative in hth but you'd stay with the 5+ invul

or pay and extra 20pts and get the normal i5 and be 4+ invul

shooting and hth (for hitting ability) you'd be the same.

up to you dude. if you want cheep you're better off with MOS and familiar.


oh and you mentioned before giving him wings. not sure if you're still thinking this way but i highly suggest that if you have the points for it you use a bike instead of the wings. its really worth it in my opinion. putting my 1kson hq sorc on a bike has made him survive to hth or close enough to wind MANY times!! very much worth it.

[Astral Claw 126]

hewy wait...Grip used my sorcerer as an example for Slaanesh!! JOY!!! Yay to my favorite Tzeentchian!!

[Dragoon King]

Well, I might use the batlike jumppack from the Possessed sprue on him. Bikes are more expensive in points, and I don't enjoy building them.

[GriplionGremlin]

Originally Posted by Dragoon King

Well, I might use the batlike jumppack from the Possessed sprue on him. Bikes are more expensive in points, and I don't enjoy building them.

that pack does look nice and i wouldnt mind having a few. and the movement from jetpac/wings is nice the bike really does pay for itself points wise. as always its your force and up to you to spend points as you see fit. all i do is make suggestions

bikes can be a bi@tcH to do properly. and i should know!!! damn lazy git i am i try to go with someone else's build not happy and have to pop them appart where able to do them the way i like......oh well.

i just know do a badA on a bike is worth it for me.

glad you like him there AC. how you been doing over there in the land of lager?

[Astral Claw 126]

Not bad, just relaxing as best I can, and working on the Reaver

[Dragoon King]

How about this. I have Abby and a DP for large battles. I have the metal Sorcerer (hopefully I can model the batwing pack on him, it doesn't fit right), so maybe for my other HQ choice for small battles I could do a another Sorcerer on loyalist (thouroughly desecrated, of course) bike. Still, I love the metal model, but I may trade it off if I can't find a good way to make him mobile. I'll check the points on the MoT and Disc, the disc might be the only viable option, but I gotta figure out a way to model it. No way I'm trying to convert him to a biker, I suck at conversions!