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04-06-2007
| #1 (permalink) |
| Primer  Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO
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 |  so there I was on the forgeworld site and.. I was droolin over this dead sexy Thousand Sons Dread body and thinkin ..."now if only dreads for chaos weren't lame and berserk".. and I started thinkin ..wait a second .. a dread has a spacemarine inside the sarcophogus .. and a Thousand Son doesn't have an independent will anymore to go berserk ... so the rubric seal would theoretically negate the whole lame berserk shoot my own unit thing. hmmmm... so what I'm wondering has Citadel made any rulings on this?... or could I maybe work around the lame berzerk crap by buying demonic possession? .. oh yeah and another thing ... if a thousands of years old servant of the false emporer in a dreadnought is called "venerable"..*snorts in derision* and gets to make you reroll on the damage table ... then why the heck don't Chaos Dreads which are MANY thousands of years old .. get the same benefits from their experience?
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04-06-2007
| #2 (permalink) | ||
| One of strangess    Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Turn around... (if I'm not there I'm usually in Bangladesh)
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That and points cost... if you have codex: space marines, I bet that even with the assault cannon, a SM Dreadnought is cheaper than a CSM dreadnought.
__________________  Proud member of the FSBGEBS: Feed Stitch Before Getting Eaten By Stitch, Protecting the 40kterra community from a ravenous Stitch. My Blog, my life, my strangeness My WRFP campaign blog! He is no fool who gives that which he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose - Jim Elliot Quote:
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04-07-2007
| #3 (permalink) | |
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 And I don't see how daemonic possession would prevent the fire frenzy rule... Daemonic possession just lets you ignore 'crew stunned' and 'crew shaken', right? I don't use armor much, so I dunno, and I never really upgrade what armor I use beyond extra armor, smoke laucnhers, and occasionally a searchlight. | |
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04-07-2007
| #4 (permalink) |
| The Dark Apostle    Join Date: Oct 2006
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 | fluff wise, the rubric would contain the TSSM inside the dread would have made it like any other TSSM. however, no special dread for you! *smack smack*
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04-07-2007
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04-07-2007
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| Filthy, Dirty Radical   Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: lost in a blizzard, somewhere near toronto!
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| well, chaos marines unlike their goody two-shoes loyalist counter parts enjoy reviling in slaughter and mayhem! even the disembodied spirit of a thousand son traped inside his tomb for all eternity is going to get a little upset that he can't savour his enemy's fear and feel the hot blood on his face as he tears the poor unfortunate limb from mangled limb! as for the daemon being trapped inside the metal sarcophogus in place of a chaos marine - you really think it's going to be happy that some pesky mortal bound it through sorcerery to eternal servitude?!! cheers!
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04-07-2007
| #7 (permalink) |
| Corporal  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, Arizona
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| I've always figured that a thousand sons dreadnought would contain an aspiring champ being possessed, assuming you take that upgrade. Rubrics would be too servile and unimportant enough for such entombment.
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04-07-2007
| #8 (permalink) |
| Primer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO
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| well demonic possession upgrade replaces the "crew" of a chaos vehicle with a demon ... the defiler automatically has demonic possession.. and the defiler doesn't frenzy .. besides if I were a demon I'd rather be trapped in a monstrous uber dread body than some lame little squishy humanoid body .. *gags* ...besides who really knows what makes a demon "happy"? .. do they get "happy" or are demons like hippies and they don't really have feelings? as far as the "importance" theory ... well true ... now .. however theoretically when the Thousand Sons were betrayed by the Space Wolves and forced to Chaos ...a good choice IMO ... it is probable that the Legion already possessed some marines already wired into dreads .. theoretically since every member of the chapter was effected by Ahriman's spell then a Dread "pilot" would either have been a sorcerer already or would have turned to dust and been sealed within his sarcophogus. .hhhmmm .. even better ... could a dread be a sorcerer?..*rubs chin thoughtfully*.. hmmm .. a dread with psychic powers who automatically passes tests(as per mark of tzeentch) .. but does frenzy .. yeah add some uber psychic powers.. which I can use twice IF I frenzy ..yeah I could almost go for that ... as for relevant points costs the chaos dread is 5 points higher with the lowest cost weapon available the Autocannon ... as opposed to a baseline SM Dread with an assault cannon ... both have dread close combat weapon and a combi/storm bolter under the CC weapon.. armor values also the same so ... for 5 more points I get a one in six chance to shoot my own guys .. twice ..wow ... but seriously .. it is balanced as it exists .. I'm not implying I want free no frenzy just because it's a Thousand Sons dread ... I could understand having to buy either a mark of Tzeentch or demonic possession to counteract the frenzy.. although I wouldn't turn down free no frenzy
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04-07-2007
| #9 (permalink) |
| Trooper Join Date: Nov 2006
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| I understand the point of the dread having no frenzy roll, but I gotta tell you, it can work out very well. My dread is a sickening amount of points, but with a TL lascannon, a missile launcher, and a havoc launcher, the fire frenzy isn't so bad. Careful placement is the key to keeping him alive though. He's made it to turn 5 on a consistent basis, and finished the game fairly unscathed a few times. Only lost him on the first turn once to infiltrators.....
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04-08-2007
| #10 (permalink) |
| Primer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO
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| yeah my fear is dumping that kind of points then rolling stinking assault frenzy .. wahoo look there goes my 300 pt dread str **** and no DCC weapon .. and the scout squad killed him in close combat .. wahoo..I wasted how much gas driving here and how many hours painting ... well turn one .. yup you win ..I'm going home and pound in nails with my skull because it's more fun AND less of a waste of time....
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04-08-2007
| #11 (permalink) | ||
| the age of reptiles  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Pelossus Alida
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| dang man, that really sucks. but you get all these cool perks! two wound models...on basic infantry! i'm not sure if you can take normal chaos marines, but they are 1 pt cheaper than loyalists, have a higher leadership, and can ALL swap bolters for bp/ccw. those are a few good points about playing a chaos army...haha and plus, rubrics just looks awesome...but honestly, yea at 300 points, maybe it's better to just not use a dreadnought? that's just a suggestion, you don't have to follow it or anything.. good luck with that frenzy :] -ant
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04-09-2007
| #12 (permalink) |
| The Dark Apostle Join Date: Oct 2006
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| in a thousand sons army you cant take normal marines, as everything has to have the mark of tzeentch. normal CSM are 140 points because GW assumes most people will take a mark. with MoC undivided, its the same as a loyalist marine and the benifit is an equal of 'and they shall know no fear'
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04-12-2007
| #14 (permalink) |
| Primer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO
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| it was a third edition dread... happened right when third edition first came out ... and that particular incident added to the fact that the third edition orks were lame because they took all the cool toys and boiled them down to lame generic support weapon .. and no warp grenades...and no ...and no.. and sniff and grrr.....eventually resulted in my recently ended 4 or 5 year hyatus from 40k but anyway ... he was a pretty loaded bugger .. I know his total points weren't 300 even .. I think maybe in the 280 range truthfully but still when you take all those attacks and roll every one as a successful wound again a scoout .. and then they save all but two wounds and of course the one model left in base contact is the sgt with the power fist
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04-12-2007
| #15 (permalink) |
| Corporal  Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Titan
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| well unlike in a DH army you should never rely on a dreadnaught that much. true they are good and quite powerful and should be able to climb buildings as they move like infantry. what ive done before is get 3 dreads and give them assault cannon and dread combat weapon and march them down one side of the table and sweep up through the enemy while 2 deepstriking grey knight squads drop on the other end and a grand master and his termies and land raider go straight up the middle.
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04-13-2007
| #16 (permalink) |
| Primer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kansas City, MO
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| well the key in this situation was that it was an early third edition army ..just the base rulebook and no chaos codex out yet ... it was a thousand sons themed army I used the mark of chaos rules to make my commander a sorcerer and 2 squads of thousand sons became troop choices I then put in 2 squads of plague marines with blight grenades as close combat support .. since at the time this was not verboten the dread was a heavy support choice to provide anti vehicle support so he had all the big nasty heavy shooty options to really put a dent in the vehicle heavy armies which were about the only things that really presented that army with an obstacle it was a thing of gross and usually victorious fun ... the old thousand sons required a str 5 weapon to even deliver a wound .. then they still had another wound the main weakness being close combat where anyone with a spoon could chew them up.. thus the 5 toughness blight grenade carrying plague marines ..which came with plague knife for free ... 3rd edition plague knife flat out killed a fig on a wound roll of six ..didn't matter if you had 15 wounds ..so that took care of that weakness the next weakness was the fact that both those troop types aren't real great at taking out vehicles so I was gettin busted up by whirlwinds and basilisks with artilery fire and everyother thing at closer ranges ..thus the dread.. thus the gunned out dread .. and possible a squad of havocs .. I honestly can't remember ..I'd have to go back and find the base rulebook and do math(acckk ..) anyway ..it worked well several times then one time it was scout kamikaze .. that added to the fact that of the 10 or so 40k players locally there where only 3 of us who played for fun .. all the others cared about was winning at any cost .. which was actually why I built this whole somewhat cheesy army ..because I like to watch men cry however now I live somewhere completely different and the choice of players seems much more ..pleasant ..so I'm going to have another round of bolt slinging False Emperor overthrowing fun
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05-24-2007
| #17 (permalink) |
| Corporal  Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Blog Entries: 1  | actually if any of you remember the IA article on 1000 sons that came out in late 1999-2000 area you would recall that one of the options for the dread was to give it dem poss and it would then lose the frezy drawback. ah the days of tzeentch having a psychic power that had a range of more than 18-24 inches (if you do warp focus and get a six that is  ). however folks there may just be a light at the end of the tunnel perhaps. gw is rewriting the chaos codex once again and we do have confirmation from gw staff (jervis) that 1000 sons are getting some bigtime bumps, ap3 bolters (in a 1000 sons army only, not just a unit of 1000sons in black legion army), more psychic powers and a few other unconfirmed things too. it should be interesting for 1000 sons. (however i'm also dreading it for what they may do to nueter my iw.....) l8r
__________________   fe, fi, fo, fum. i smell imperial corpse scumm! my 1ksons ts wip iron hands wip Infinity miniature game |
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08-01-2007
| #19 (permalink) |
| Destruction Manifest   Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky
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Blog Entries: 1 | Hey, why don't Chaos players get a Venerable Drednought equivelent? All we get is a crappy dread that kills more of my CSM than it does enemies. Aren't Chaos Marines supposed to be deadlier that Imperial Marines? We get daemons. Woo hoo. I don't even use em. Not to metion the fact we lack Plasma Cannons, Landspeeders, LR Crusaders, and scouts. Chaos marines are bloodthirsty, but their not stupid. Just their equipment. Does everything Chaos have to be unstable? Our daemons, daemon weapons, and even our dreds. I hope the new codex changes some of the rules that handicap us. Maybe I'm just whiny.
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08-01-2007
| #20 (permalink) | ||
| Master Procrastinator    Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: As a figment of my own deranged imagination, i don't actually exist anywhere. Or London, UK.
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 and name me one loyalist chapter that can take stuff like mutated hull or parasitic possession. i'll take that over being venerable any day. ha!seriously though, if you want stuff like speeders and plasma cannons then maybe choose an army from codex:space marines and trait it up a bit. rewrite some back story and bam! there you go.
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08-01-2007
| #21 (permalink) |
| Destruction Manifest Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Loyall, Kentucky
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Blog Entries: 1 | Hey, that's not a bad ideal. I think I will when the stuff comes out!
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09-25-2007
| #22 (permalink) |
| Corporal Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Blog Entries: 1 | well some of you may be happy soon. read the oblits entry in the new codex and enjoy. and mut hull and para poss are history. i guess to many non chaos players complained or the gw staff who write the codexes but cant win using them even though they should know whats in them better than anyone else thought it was too hard to put it in the book. dem poss taking away beserk - the idea of dem possess taking away the beserk came in as the way gw tried to get more people to play(ie buy) the models. i know this cant/wont happen but what would be funny would be to see a mix of the older 3rd ed wd 1000 sons rules and the current chaos rules. especially with the upcoming apocolypse release. heres what i'm thinking. the old tzeentch power before bolt of change use to be flames of tzeentch. which under another name was called a lascannon. same profile. now with the current chaos rules (not the new ones just released) you could have up to 40 chosen in a 3000+ pts game. just think of 40 asp champ/sorcerer chosen all with flames of tzeentch! you have a bane blade? i dont care have some of my chosen!!!!40 lascannons coming your way!! and with warp focus they get and extra 1-6 inch range too and not psych test.........oooh soo ugly!! thats how you kill a baneblade in 1 turn!! just for fun!
__________________ fe, fi, fo, fum. i smell imperial corpse scumm! my 1ksons ts wip iron hands wip Infinity miniature game Last edited by GriplionGremlin; 09-26-2007 at 08:01 PM. |
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